Need advise on what welder to buy

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I've been welding at a local metal shop for about 6 months using a Snap On MIG 300 and it is fine for my needs.  I have outgrown this shop and it's time to furnish my own.  I mostly weld 1/4 inch recycled tube steel that is pretty rusty.  Most of the welding is of a decorative nature but it is still important to get decent penetration and a good looking raised & thick bead.I hope that the picture posted/attached of representative work will help give you an idea of what I'm looking to accomplish.  The "bark" treatment is where most of the time/effort is spent and what I want to make sure the new welder can handle with speed and ease.  The max I use the Snap On welder is on setting 7 but I'm not really sure what that exactly means as far as output, duty cycle, etc.  When I'm laying down the "bark" beads, I have it working quite a bit -- probably 2 seconds on, 1 second off.Please help me with what size & brand machine I should be purchasing for maintenance free, good performing output.  Money is an issue but performance and speed are probably more important as we ramp production of our product.  It's not something that will be running 8 hours/day -- probably more like 2-3 hours/day, 2-3 days/week.Thanks for your help.  If there's something I've left out that would help with your recommendation, please ask and I'll try to respond as quick as possible. Attached Images
Reply:Nobody has an opinion ?  I really could use some advise here.
Reply:I have a MillerMatic 210, works good up to 3/8" or so.  The new equivalent is the 212.For me, this is the smallest decent duty cycle machine that I would buy - or one from another brand.Go big enough so you get good duty cycle in the mid ranges.  About 60% or more in your most common thickness.  I'm not a patient man and I want my welder to work until I'm tired.  If this describes you too - buy big. Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Don't know enough about your existing machine to make a comparison with anything else.Solid welds on 1/4" material is doable with any 180 amp or better mig. If you want decent duty cycle, you will want to lean more towards the larger more expensive 200+ amp cabinet migs vs the smaller less expensive "portable" ones.New, Miller, Lincoln, Hobart would be my 1st thought, though the newer Thermal arcs have reportedly been pretty good as well. For the money, the Hobart Ironman 230 might be a good bet. It's got more than enough power for 1/4" and a fairly high duty cycle. Price is very good compared to say a comparable Miller like the MM212.Looking at the picts it wouldn't surprise me if you couldn't get away with a smaller machine, but I'll err on the side of caution and suggest the larger machine with the higher duty cycle since I've got no reference to compare output to..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hobart Ironman 230, Millermatic 212 or  a PowerMIG 216 should work fine, and give you duty cycle  room for future growth.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Ironman 230 if I were you at $1500 and for portability HH210 at around $900. My preference is for the Ironman 230.Good luck and have fun.
Reply:I'm low man on the totem pole but I got the Lincoln 180 for our ranch (tractor, corrals and general metal work) and its doing great on everything which is more than I can say for me. We're in the Lancaster/Palmdale area of Los Angeles County and if you're around, you're welcome to come out on the 11th with 8-10 other members of the board to try it and a bunch of Miller stuff.
Reply:Miller has a current rebate program that ends in May. They have the 211 , plasma cutters, and the new 200.  Might be something to consider. http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/build-with-blue/
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1Miller has a current rebate program that ends in May. They have the 211 , plasma cutters, and the new 200.  Might be something to consider. http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/build-with-blue/
Reply:Did you turn the welder up when you welded in the past?If you did, or didn't, that's your answer.You are welding for effect, not structure.  That makes a difference.Some welds you want cold and tall for the desired look, others you don't.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by RM IronworksAny thoughts from everyone on how much extra power it takes to weld on rusty metal ??  For example, does it add an extra 1/8" or so to the power needed of the welder (if a model can weld 3/8" at 60% duty cycle on a mid-range voltage, would the rust cut it down to 1/4" ??
Reply:Looking your attached picture over, a lot of the tacks holding things together look to be on the cold side. You may want to try running a little hotter machine settings, so that components don't start falling off over time.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:I would think the 211 would work. The 212 has a greater duty cycle and takes the larger rolls.Post your location as stated, a member may let you try theirs. 211 http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...p?model=M00245212  http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...p?model=M00456
Reply:You could do what you are doing with a 110vac, MM140 fairly easily. Personally I would buy a 230 volt machine instead. MM211 is a compact machine, with reasonable duty cycle and would work great for what you are doing. MM252 would be even better, and give you a lot of room to grow. Keep an eye on CL for a MM200. A stout machine, usually sell for about $800 +/-, great duty cycle, 250 amp output.
Reply:how many hours a day will you be welding?That may be the single most important question you have to answer. Pretty much any 200 amp unit will do what you are doing. That leaves the question of duty cycle.The duty cycle is the amount of time (continuous)  in a ten minute period that a welder can operate at any given output amperage. Look at duty cycles of welders and do not accept the single number  that usually pops up on the website specs because that;s almost always for the maximum output level. It might not be a bad idea to get a miltiprocess machine since you are into art and a multiprocess will allow you to use the various characteristics of the various kinds of welding.You also might consider whether much aluminum will become a part of your expression.   Tig welding aluminum means you need an AC machine and  Ac  DC  machines  are way more spendy.  of course you can MIG it for the $400  price of a spooler.Hey~!! It's a hobby. It's not supposed to make sense~!!
Reply:Originally Posted by RaulLook at duty cycles of welders and do not accept the single number  that usually pops up on the website specs because that;s almost always for the maximum output level.
Reply:I appreciate your opinions.  I agree that much of what I call "welding" would be oranges to your apples.  Frankly, I never would have thought of turning the machine down to get higher, "ropey" welds. I'm not sure that would e possible given the rusty nature of the metal I'm working with.  I am located in Denver.  If any of you are in this area, I'd love to sample your machine with a piece of my metal.What do you guys think of this used MM 210 on CL: http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/3774328073.html
Reply:Originally Posted by RM IronworksI appreciate your opinions.  I agree that much of what I call "welding" would be oranges to your apples.  Frankly, I never would have thought of turning the machine down to get higher, "ropey" welds. I'm not sure that would e possible given the rusty nature of the metal I'm working with.  I am located in Denver.  If any of you are in this area, I'd love to sample your machine with a piece of my metal.What do you guys think of this used MM 210 on CL: http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/3774328073.html
Reply:Originally Posted by DanA MM 210 would be a good choice for your application however, not for that price. The cylinder looks like it might  be a 300/330 CF bottle. In my area, that size of bottle is rental only.
Reply:[QUOTE=Brand X;2596381...Maybe I could just rent the gas?[/QUOTE]Yeah, once it gets used for welding it goes back to the atmosphere and they bottle it up again.  It's like the power company selling you AC power.  It goes back and forth on the line and you pay for the same old electrons."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XThe 300/330 CF bottle is not rental size, just to the north and east of you.. Price to fill them has sure went up...Maybe I could just rent the gas?
Reply:My MM 210 is in better looking condition then the unit pictured in the ad, and I consider my unit by itself worth around $700 - $800 tops. If it can be proven that the bottle pictured with the welder is not a rental size for the area, and that the seller owns it, I feel $900 to maybe a $1000 tops would be all I'd be willing to pay for the combo.A 300 CF bottle isn't something that the average size guy (especially when he my age or older) wants to have to load in and out of a vehicle by hand. Around here I'd be using the bucket on the front end loader of our Kubota to get that cylinder in or out of the bed of our F350.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:A 300 CF bottle isn't something that the average size guy (especially when he my age or older) wants to have to load in and out of a vehicle by hand. Around here I'd be using the bucket on the front end loader of our Kubota to get that cylinder in or out of the bed of our F350.
Reply:What would be a good price to pay for this Miller 212, also on CL ??He's asking $1450 w/a smallish bottle ...http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/3761752926.html
Reply:Originally Posted by RM IronworksWhat would be a good price to pay for this Miller 212, also on CL ??He's asking $1450 w/a smallish bottle ...http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/3761752926.htmlOriginally Posted by DanScott, I don't consider Portland (50+ miles away) or Eastern Oregon in my area. To date I've only dealt with the welding supply stores in Salem.
Reply:Originally Posted by Dan$1300 - $1400 is roughly around what that unit sold for new. Looks to be an 80 CF cylinder. Cyberweld is selling an empty 80 CF cylinder for around $200.That version of the MM 212 is basically the Millermatic 210 internal components in a new case. Besides the new look, Miller also slanted the wire drive downward like Lincoln had been doing for a while.That size of cylinder should be an owner size (no  guarantees though). Personally I feel around $1200  would be a more realistic asking price. The unit is around at least 4 to 5 years old.
Reply:Buy a real welder Lincoln 256 out the door $2079.00 from Lincolns web site . Run as production welders in my part time job . Run .045  all day long Ultracore 71 C.
Reply:Originally Posted by RM IronworksAre you saying that the Millermatic 212 that he is selling is different from the 212's that Miller sells today ??