Miller 252 vs 350p

admin

Hopefully I can get some good and fairly in depth info regarding these two welders. I am a farely novice welder but have successfully welded both stick and mig for years. I just dont have much training mostly self taught. So I want to buy a new welder to use mostly for aluminum but some steel as well. I have done a lot of looking at these two welders and of course the 252 is less and can add a push pull gun. But the pulse mode in the 350p is suppose to be a huge help for aluminum. So I guess my main question is how big of deal is the pulse mode? I mean can I weld as good with out it if I learn properly or is overall the weld not going to be as good?I have been saving for a long long time and can barely afford the 350p but would like to spend less if possible.My main projects I have planned are going to build myself a aluminum driftboat. I also want to do some thinner gauge for a rigid boat top on another boat I have. So I will be welding some pretty long seams.I also want to do some various other long term type projects.Thanks for the info in advance
Reply:I am a novice tig welder too,  but I can tell you that you don't need the pulse, pre/post flow etc for TIG   For someone like yourself, pulse can compensate for lack of skil, practice.... I had a Lincoln Invertec V205T.   And sold it to go back to Using the Miller 330 A/BP for my tig welding.  ...Now you are looking at Pulsed mig aluminum...  I have never used a pulsed mig so cannot comment on that.      If u r doing enough Aluminum to need a pulsed mig the u will need a push pull gun or spool gun.   If u r doing lots of Aluminum the push pull is a much better investment as using 8, 10, 12" spools of wire is much cheaper than using 1lb spools and a lot less spool changes...  Mig Aluminum is a hot and fast process so being u cannot regulate the current like u can with TIG I can see pulse actually being much more useful in Mig welding as it can give the control over the weld puddle and bead that the pedal gives u in tig...U r talking big bucks either way so I hope u r doing it out of hobby interest and not to make or save a buck...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Kevin Morin is THE boat expert. His knowledge of this type of work is extensive.For example...http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...=aluminum+boatLast edited by tanglediver; 09-12-2012 at 11:49 PM.Reason: SpellingCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Thanks for the info so far. This is just a hobby for me. But even since its just a hobby I want to make a informed decision and not regret later not getting a particular welder. The 252 will certainly be a big enough welder however again the pulse mode on the 350p makes me wonder if I should go that route.
Reply:Here is my experience with alum mig. Years ago I was introduced to the MK Cobra systems. The regional MK guru was Paul Oullette. That guy could sell a machine gun to a hippy.  We talked and he insisted his system was the cat's meow. I told him I would demo it for 2 weeks if he set it up and showed us how to use it. He said how would I like to pay. I said I did not commit to buy, and he said "No problem, everyone buys it". He set it up on 1/8 alum at 1/3rd power, and we were all shocked. After 2 weeks he called and said that he had another buyer, and I told him over my dead body. That machine is a turnkey push/pull wire feeder with their "PosaStart" slow run in-voltage sensing technology. You can simulate slow speed pulsing by whipping the torch while welding. But starting is the key advantage to the whole package. I never needed pulse and still don't on this machine. It is the CobraMig280.When I went to buy another they had been discontinued. So I looked at Miller and Casey Breedan came out and demoed the 350P with the alumapro gun. It did everything the CobraMig does but has microprocessor controls, memory, diagnostics, slow run-in, voltage sensing, and pulse. Really I never use the pulse. I am sure someone can find a use for it, but I can't. My work now is not sheet metal.Then after having both for a few years, Miller comes out with the 252. It is really like my old CobraMig, which is what everyone here fights over( my foreman found one on Craigslist and uses it at home). The 252 has the slow run-in, voltage sensing, and optional push-pull gun. If I had to buy another mig, I think it would be the 252.Only other thing I would mention is that both my CobraMig and Millermatic350P are dedicated to alum only, and I run only 5356 wire. The CobraMig cost $6K new, and  350P $7K new.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Pulse is a big help with thinner metal, and lets you use a thicker wire for a given thickness of base metal. Thicker wire costs less per pound and feeds easier.It sounds like you're pretty much a Blue guy, but Lincoln and OTC also have pulse MIG machines with some nice features for alum.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:I have had a 350P for a few years now.I feel that pulse is great on new aluminum. Used stuff, it is virtually worthless IMO.I love the big power and the inverter arc myself. Big power with little draw off the wall.I love the giant beads on thick steel. Myself, I would buy the plain old MM350 over the MM252 any day of the week, BUT the difference in cost between the MM350 and the 350P is very little, so it's a no brainer IMO.I think you need to run one before you decide. Fortunately I did, so I knew what I was getting into. You don't have to run pulse. I tend to give it a try both ways when I weld something new or different. I seems mostly not. But I do a ton of repair welding.You can't go wrong with a MM252. I'd compare it to a syncrowave. Rock solid and well proven.A 350P is IMO, the equivalent of a Dynasty.....all adjustable..... in more ways than most folks will ever use. YMMVMiller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:the only difference between the 350 and the 350P is one circuit pcb. The pulse board.You may not be able to get a new 350. The pulse pcb can be added. On an older 350 if you replace the interface pcb it comes with a new pulse pcb in a kit.If you buy a 350/350P keep your grinding dust away from it. It can mess up the front panel controls.
Reply:I'd think you'd want TIG for doing aluminum as a hobbieist, assuming you aren't building a large boat or something similar
Reply:Originally Posted by GrooI'd think you'd want TIG for doing aluminum as a hobbieist, assuming you aren't building a large boat or something similar
Reply:ya, I may not pick up every line, but I did see something in there about "thinner gauge"
Reply:Thanks for all the info so far. I do plan on doing at least one boat which will be a pretty small boat but still a ton of welding so tig is really not something I am interested in. Also I have a couple friends that will probably want to build a boat as well if I get it dialed in. So my aluminum welding could be quite extensive over the years. This is why I am torn on which machine to buy. I would love to save the money and buy the 252 but if it is not going to work as good as the 350p then I will go that way.
Reply:Originally Posted by oregonnoviceThanks for all the info so far. I do plan on doing at least one boat which will be a pretty small boat but still a ton of welding so tig is really not something I am interested in. Also I have a couple friends that will probably want to build a boat as well if I get it dialed in. So my aluminum welding could be quite extensive over the years. This is why I am torn on which machine to buy. I would love to save the money and buy the 252 but if it is not going to work as good as the 350p then I will go that way.
Reply:Thanks for all the info everyone. I have decided to buy the 350p. Its on order from airgas and should be delivered pretty soon. Now my next questions does anyone by chance have a push pull gun they would be looking to sell?? Can not afford a brand new one since I am going with the bigger welder. Appreciate any help in locating a used one. Also if anyone can give me a idea of what to expect to pay for a used one that would be awesome? I have looked on ebay and I even was bidding on one but got outbid and it seemed like it went for more then a used one should.Any help appreciated
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonHere is my experience with alum mig. Years ago I was introduced to the MK Cobra systems. The regional MK guru was Paul Oullette. That guy could sell a machine gun to a hippy.  We talked and he insisted his system was the cat's meow. I told him I would demo it for 2 weeks if he set it up and showed us how to use it. He said how would I like to pay. I said I did not commit to buy, and he said "No problem, everyone buys it". He set it up on 1/8 alum at 1/3rd power, and we were all shocked. After 2 weeks he called and said that he had another buyer, and I told him over my dead body. That machine is a turnkey push/pull wire feeder with their "PosaStart" slow run in-voltage sensing technology. You can simulate slow speed pulsing by whipping the torch while welding. But starting is the key advantage to the whole package. I never needed pulse and still don't on this machine. It is the CobraMig280.When I went to buy another they had been discontinued. So I looked at Miller and Casey Breedan came out and demoed the 350P with the alumapro gun. It did everything the CobraMig does but has microprocessor controls, memory, diagnostics, slow run-in, voltage sensing, and pulse. Really I never use the pulse. I am sure someone can find a use for it, but I can't. My work now is not sheet metal.Then after having both for a few years, Miller comes out with the 252. It is really like my old CobraMig, which is what everyone here fights over( my foreman found one on Craigslist and uses it at home). The 252 has the slow run-in, voltage sensing, and optional push-pull gun. If I had to buy another mig, I think it would be the 252.Only other thing I would mention is that both my CobraMig and Millermatic350P are dedicated to alum only, and I run only 5356 wire. The CobraMig cost $6K new, and  350P $7K new.
Reply:I was looking over MK's website a couple days ago and it seems they make all kinds of adapters to fit just about any machine to their spoolgun.   In theory you should be able to make a push pull machine out of any MIG that actually measures RPM in real time.   Easy to check.  Shoul have 2 power wires to the motor then 2 or 3 separate wires to the RPM sensor on the motor drive somewhere...   also if u have a Prince XL spoolgun uoy can get the cobramatic feeder and convert the spool gun to a push pull feeder.   Though u still need a power source...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by Sparky#1I didn't know the 252 could run a push pull setup. :what:Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:Probably no one reading this thread anymore. Just wanted to make a quick update. I bought a used MM350P and a Python Push Pull gun. All I can say is wow. Anyone looking for a aluminum welding package this one is pretty amazing. The pulse feature is really sweet. Even for a beginner on aluminum it makes welding pretty easy. Hardest part has been figuring out all the settings on the machine and getting them adjusted correctly. Took one full evening of untangling bird nests which was frustrating. Since I have been able to get some really nice beads. Still having some issues adjusting gas correctly and gun angle but with time that will work out. Great welder
Reply:You cant go wrong with the 350P. When I bought mine everybody said I didnt need thatbig ah welder. I dont weld alot of heavy stuff, but big power is there when I want it. You will find the more you use it the better you will be happy with your investment. BJ
Reply:The pulse is great on thinner aluminum.  1/8" stuff, no problem even slightly out of position (never tried upside down).  I use the 350P with a spool gun only on aluminum.350P is a light machine - 140lbs - full inverter, with the ability to adjust inductance if your using it for short arc.I think  (from fading memory) the 25x machines are in the 225lbs range.  Personally, I like the 251 machine a whole lot (.035 wire and C25 - pretty much run all day with plenty of power - really flat voltage curve).  If the 252 has the same power supply, I would say you can't go wrong on steel with that machine.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX