Blinded by the light...

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So I was starting to work on a project today, and shortly after getting started on what I believe is called a "fillet" bead, I'd get flashed by the arc. Seeing some might big spots now.So the question is what would cause that to happen?Material: .120 mild steel sheetTungsten: 1/16 2% ThoriatedNo filler because I'm just trying to seal up the inside of a box after welding the perimeter of the outside of the box.Welder: Lincoln Electric v155-s (no pedal or finger amptrol support)Amps: 110 initially and then cut back to 95 but same behaviorTungsten freshly ground and wiped with acetoneJoint wiped with acetone
Reply:Hood not down?Auto-darkening lens malfunction?  Is it battery operated or light operated? Are the light sensors clean?Other polished surfaces nearby that could reflect arc light back under hood from obscure angle?- MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Hood was down and sensors are clean.I only had ambient light because the lights overhead were directly above me and causing a glare on the inside lens.Other polished surfaces is an interesting question because I hadn't heard that too much light IN the hood could affect the performance of the hood, in which case it is worthwhile to mention that my hood does have an attachment for a cheater lens, but I did recently get one and tape it on over the inside lens cover. Would that cause problems?Also, it's worthwhile to mention that I had the sensitivity on "low" and delay time on "slow"
Reply:Is this a new problem, or are you a new welder?
Reply:Don't use an auto darkening helmet when Tig welding. Use a filp down one with 11 or 12 shade. I had the same issue with any auto helmet I was able to test and same thing when Tigging, it would flash me or slowly get brighter and brighter. Save you eyes. Get a cheapie flip down.T.J.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:It's a new problem, but I also am a new hobbyist welder. I have another helmet, I can try it in a day or so once the flash burn is better.I don't think that I have enough feel for welding yet to try using a fixed shade where I can really see before starting my arc. My helmet is rated for TIG at 1/25,000 second.
Reply:Sensitivity on high would be better.
Reply:Originally Posted by BlueweldersSensitivity on high would be better.
Reply:Since you are welding inside a box, my vote would go to the fact you blocked the sensors, thus the hood thought you'd stopped welding and lightened up. It's fairly typical with lesser expensive AD hoods that only have two sensors. Even 4 sensor hoods can get blocked on occasion. Top end AD hoods sense the magnetic field and darken to avoid these issues. You can have the entire torch blocked with these and they will still darken.Now on "flash burn", almost all semi decent AD hoods will prevent true flash burn even if they don't darken. The optics themselves on or off will stop the UV light. Most decent safety glasses will also block UV light even if they are clear. You may see spots, but you won't get that itchy eyes that comes from a true flash. If you truly got flashed and have itchy eyes, then chances are you got flashed by a reflection, or you simply didn't have the hood down and weren't wearing safety glasses..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Your auto hood is what caused it. I hear of it all the time. I have a old time fixed lens lid and never have been flashed.
Reply:I would learn fixed shade now. If you get use to the auto then when you decide you want to switch you will be miserable all over again trying to figure it out.
Reply:It's a Chicago Electric hood and the manual says this:Switch Sensitivity AdjustmentAdjusts the amount of light neededto activate the lens to darken.So, I thought that "low" would be my preferred setting because I want the ad to switch on as quickly as possible because I'm light sensitive.And no... I didn't think I had actually burned my eyes, but I am still seeing spots which is typical for me. I even have problems out in daylight without sunglasses on.Thanks for the responses. I'm going to try the same helmet to weld a couple of exposed pieces together to make sure that the helmet is okay functionally, and then figure out how to position myself in the box so that I don't block the sensors. Probably put a small clamp work light I have in the box pointed at the weld area so that I don't have to put my head in as far.
Reply:Originally Posted by Tradetek Probably put a small clamp work light I have in the box pointed at the weld area so that I don't have to put my head in as far.
Reply:Originally Posted by BirdI would learn fixed shade now. If you get use to the auto then when you decide you want to switch you will be miserable all over again trying to figure it out.
Reply:Originally Posted by TradetekSo, I thought that "low" would be my preferred setting because I want the ad to switch on as quickly as possible because I'm light sensitive.
Reply:Gotcha DSWThanks Oscar. Fortunately or Unfortunately, my helmet only has 2 options, High or Low.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW.....Now on "flash burn", almost all semi decent AD hoods will prevent true flash burn even if they don't darken. The optics themselves on or off will stop the UV light. Most decent safety glasses will also block UV light even if they are clear. You may see spots, but you won't get that itchy eyes that comes from a true flash. If you truly got flashed and have itchy eyes, then chances are you got flashed by a reflection, or you simply didn't have the hood down and weren't wearing safety glasses.
Reply:Originally Posted by TradetekIt's a Chicago Electric hood and the manual says this:Switch Sensitivity AdjustmentAdjusts the amount of light neededto activate the lens to darken.So, I thought that "low" would be my preferred setting because I want the ad to switch on as quickly as possible because I'm light sensitive.And no... I didn't think I had actually burned my eyes, but I am still seeing spots which is typical for me. I even have problems out in daylight without sunglasses on.Thanks for the responses. I'm going to try the same helmet to weld a couple of exposed pieces together to make sure that the helmet is okay functionally, and then figure out how to position myself in the box so that I don't block the sensors. Probably put a small clamp work light I have in the box pointed at the weld area so that I don't have to put my head in as far.
Reply:It's true that  you get what you pay for when it comes to AD helmets.  The high end ones cost $300 or so, but your eyes are the most important tools in your toolbox.  Either spring for a top notch AD helmet, or use a fixed shade that will fully protect your eyes all the time you are welding.  Those are your only really good choices.  You can use a shade 9 or 10 gold fixed lens helmet for $75.00 and be just fine.
Reply:When I started TIGing full time I went from a 2 sensor to a 4 sensor with "X-mode". The helmet darkens a split second before the arc starts.  The old one would flash me sometimes.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by TJSDon't use an auto darkening helmet when Tig welding. Use a filp down one with 11 or 12 shade. I had the same issue with any auto helmet I was able to test and same thing when Tigging, it would flash me or slowly get brighter and brighter. Save you eyes. Get a cheapie flip down.T.J.
Reply:I should also mention I wear safety glasses with a dark silver shade at all times, is it a kit dark? Yes! But the few times I run in to a flash, my eyes are ok. I just weld with a lighter shade. So a 9 with my glasses on is like a 9 and a half, and so on. If I'm wleding and no matter what it's to dark or smoky (flux core) I go up to shade 12 or 13 and swap to clear lens glasses.
Reply:I don't even know what shade I have in my hood any more. I believe it is a 13, I got it when I was in school and learning stick welding. I use the same hood for everything, TIG, MIG, and stick.
Reply:I run a Nexgen set on shade 10  for 8 hours Tig welding around 100 amps every day. Google OSHA welding shade regulations, it's all spelled out for you. Throw away that HF hood and get a shade 10 fixed Jackson hood until you can afford an Jackson auto shade. The auto shade lens will swap between the 2 hoods so you would have a back up and spare parts. Why are you wearing safety glasses under your hood? The cover lens should have the same ANSI number your glasses have. Your adding one more thing to look through and your making it harder on yourself.Last edited by atari; 05-18-2013 at 09:53 PM.(Home)Miller Maxstar 152 (sold)MM211/spool gunLincoln AC 225C(Work)Dynasty 350Powcon 300STLincoln SP-175TWeldlodgic AWS150sWeldlodgic AWS300Custom Resistance seam weldersCambridge Vacuum EB weldersI smell something burning.
Reply:Atari:  " I run a Nexgen set on shade 10 for 8 hours Tig welding around 100 amps every day. Google OSHA welding shade regulations, it's all spelled out for you."  (emphasis added)and if you search the OSHA's regs .. you don't seem to note the PPE for particulates or radiation in the welding trade?   so:  all welders (according to OSHA) have to keep on safety specs full time when in the 'welding environment' ? Atari: "Why are you wearing safety glasses under your hood? "  it might be because that's what those "all spelled out for you" regulations say must be worn?  In the environment of the welding facility if it's been determined there will be any POTENTIAL for eye injury.... at least that's what I've been told by OSHA for the last couple of decades......Most shops I know (North Slope, Cook Inlet, offshore on 16 platforms, contractors and company for the last 20-some years) require full time eye and head gear for even the visitors!  My guess is that is why a welder would have on the required eye PPE with his hood?If fact in Alaskan's oil and gas welding trades I'm fairly confident of stating that it would be considered cause for dismissal to be found more than once in a year without compliant PPE!As an employer in Alaska for a few decades, I've had two eye injuries of welders when they had on glasses AND a shield/helper's hood, and  we had to go to splash (sealed) goggles to avoid future eye problems with welder's just grinding their own stringers!I guess it's a point of view thing with the "gom'mint" ?I've had more than half dozen 'image' issues using 'cheaters' and head angle where safety glasses compounded the image distortion of welders just trying to wear all the 'stuff' required to meet reg!I would say that the three or four hundred$ cost for the Optrel hoods I use are well worth the costs, but I've always 'blinked' when I light up even if I don't need to with the Optrel.Lots of times folks think they're 'saving money' when they buy the less effective product, but what would they give (then) to have their eyes back after a few years of abuse to those totally invaluable orbs?I know I'd wear ear plugs in my teens and 20's if I could do away with the ringing now, I'd faithfully wear my a breather if I could trade that time for my cough, I'd lift carefully if I could skip my ach'in back now, and I'd always use the best PPE if I could have my senses back to the levels they would be if my ignorance coupled with arrogance could be traded for what's gone by.But I can't.If anyone can buy the best PPE gear but doesn't because they  think they're "saving money" ?? PLEASE Let an older person help you with some perspective.What will you give (then) to hear your granddaughter's tiny pure voice?What will you give (then) to not ache at the end of every day?What will you give (then) so you can see the sunset without cataract or glare?What will you give (then) that you could breath easily and not wheeze with each breath?Well there is no 'coin' to give that turns back time to allow you to recoup those senses.I know lots of folks are bullet proof, like I was in my younger years, but I'd hope you may give it some thought to the 'cost savings' in reduced quality Personal Protective Equipment?My take is that it's short sighted but then; I have ringing ears, foggy vision, no sense of smell, and a 'welders back' to show for my short sightedness!  (the cough has abated mostly- after a few years)Cheers,Kevin MorinWell said Kevin.You put up some good facts there and even an old fart like me can learn a few new things.Thanks Chris
Reply:Originally Posted by Mr. MooseIt's true that  you get what you pay for when it comes to AD helmets.  The high end ones cost $300 or so, but your eyes are the most important tools in your toolbox.  Either spring for a top notch AD helmet, or use a fixed shade that will fully protect your eyes all the time you are welding.  Those are your only really good choices.  You can use a shade 9 or 10 gold fixed lens helmet for $75.00 and be just fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by Kevin MorinAtari:  " I run a Nexgen set on shade 10 for 8 hours Tig welding around 100 amps every day. Google OSHA welding shade regulations, it's all spelled out for you."  (emphasis added)and if you search the OSHA's regs .. you don't seem to note the PPE for particulates or radiation in the welding trade?   so:  all welders (according to OSHA) have to keep on safety specs full time when in the 'welding environment' ? Atari: "Why are you wearing safety glasses under your hood? "  it might be because that's what those "all spelled out for you" regulations say must be worn?  In the environment of the welding facility if it's been determined there will be any POTENTIAL for eye injury.... at least that's what I've been told by OSHA for the last couple of decades......Most shops I know (North Slope, Cook Inlet, offshore on 16 platforms, contractors and company for the last 20-some years) require full time eye and head gear for even the visitors!  My guess is that is why a welder would have on the required eye PPE with his hood?If fact in Alaskan's oil and gas welding trades I'm fairly confident of stating that it would be considered cause for dismissal to be found more than once in a year without compliant PPE!As an employer in Alaska for a few decades, I've had two eye injuries of welders when they had on glasses AND a shield/helper's hood, and  we had to go to splash (sealed) goggles to avoid future eye problems with welder's just grinding their own stringers!I guess it's a point of view thing with the "gom'mint" ?I've had more than half dozen 'image' issues using 'cheaters' and head angle where safety glasses compounded the image distortion of welders just trying to wear all the 'stuff' required to meet reg!I would say that the three or four hundred$ cost for the Optrel hoods I use are well worth the costs, but I've always 'blinked' when I light up even if I don't need to with the Optrel.Lots of times folks think they're 'saving money' when they buy the less effective product, but what would they give (then) to have their eyes back after a few years of abuse to those totally invaluable orbs?I know I'd wear ear plugs in my teens and 20's if I could do away with the ringing now, I'd faithfully wear my a breather if I could trade that time for my cough, I'd lift carefully if I could skip my ach'in back now, and I'd always use the best PPE if I could have my senses back to the levels they would be if my ignorance coupled with arrogance could be traded for what's gone by.But I can't.If anyone can buy the best PPE gear but doesn't because they  think they're "saving money" ?? PLEASE Let an older person help you with some perspective.What will you give (then) to hear your granddaughter's tiny pure voice?What will you give (then) to not ache at the end of every day?What will you give (then) so you can see the sunset without cataract or glare?What will you give (then) that you could breath easily and not wheeze with each breath?Well there is no 'coin' to give that turns back time to allow you to recoup those senses.I know lots of folks are bullet proof, like I was in my younger years, but I'd hope you may give it some thought to the 'cost savings' in reduced quality Personal Protective Equipment?My take is that it's short sighted but then; I have ringing ears, foggy vision, no sense of smell, and a 'welders back' to show for my short sightedness!  (the cough has abated mostly- after a few years)Cheers,Kevin Morin
Reply:Originally Posted by kkrogerThis, it was described to me that a GOOD AD helmet is like going from a grainy old blurry TV to High Definition... I of course was old school and used a fixed shade for TIG, Even those if you get a BETTER quality one it is a lot better, the headgear makes a huge difference.I just got a Miller Digital Performance Helmet and the difference between my old junker and the new one is startling. And it is rated down to 5 Amps TIG... a Digital Hobby hood is rated to 20 Amps TIG, the HF helmets are not recommended for TIG says so in the instructions.I recently saw a Kobalt hood at Lowes that was nice. I think it is rated down to 20 Amps.
Reply:Hold on just a second, I do wear safety glasses under my hood. They are prescription safety glasses that I must wear at all times on the factory floor. Not those cheap 2$ units that are not worth trying to clean. That spec is a Honeywell Intl. mandated policy, one that I helped implement. I mis spoke or typed I guess. It's not the glasses I have a real problem with its the shaded ones that I don't understand.   Don't get me wrong, safety glasses are a good idea. Do I wear them in my own shop when I'm actually welding? To be honest,  Nope, only when I'm grinding or cutting or I have forgotten to swap back to my street glasses at the end of shift  As far as the OSHA regs I was referencing, that was in response to the post about welding all the time on everything with a #13 lens. That's like using schedule 40 pipe and a plug instead of a condom!  I understand we're your coming from and have no issue with your reply. I should have been more clear in my post, you were crystal in in yours. I to wish I could stop this nagging cough, and the ringing on my ears when everything is quiet. ( for the record I was a drummer for 10 years and if I had a second chance I would not change a thing, ringing be damned )Last edited by atari; 05-19-2013 at 06:14 PM.(Home)Miller Maxstar 152 (sold)MM211/spool gunLincoln AC 225C(Work)Dynasty 350Powcon 300STLincoln SP-175TWeldlodgic AWS150sWeldlodgic AWS300Custom Resistance seam weldersCambridge Vacuum EB weldersI smell something burning.
Reply:When is that new fancy dancy cameras and LCD screens lid coming out at an affordable price?
Reply:hmmmmmmmm I have been flashed a million times and never had those problems?Maybe I'm BIONIC.......lolLast edited by B_C; 05-20-2013 at 11:45 AM.  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by TradetekIt's a Chicago Electric hood .
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonDon't know who described that to you, but your AD won't be any clearer than my fixed shade with a clean gold coated filter, and new glass or poly shield in front. Each style has their place.
Reply:Originally Posted by kkrogerNever said it was... way to read into it...A GOOD AD vs a CHEAP AD....And I know very well that a fixed shade with all new parts is better than an old scratched up crapper...I was referring mainly to AD hoods VS AD Hoods... as I stated the one I had was not good for low amp TIG and I used a Fixed shade for TIG....
Reply:An overview of the OSHA regulations regarding PPE is below. Look for Welding Operations to get the recommended shades.http://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3151.htmlEye protection has to meet the ANSI Z87.1 standard. I guess that old welding hoods have no impact protection but some quality welding hoods, for instance some of speedglas' models, actually meet the same safety standard as safety glasses. So as long as you don't flip up the hood you are in fact wearing approved eye protection (without additional safety glasses under). Some hoods like speedglas 9100 MP has a flip up front so you still have approved eye protection on (and respirator) when you flip up the welding lens. So OHSA regulations for eye protection can be fulfilled on some helmets without an additional pair of safety glasses under the hood.Last edited by Pete.S.; 05-20-2013 at 07:35 PM.
Reply:Okay, I watched the video and sure would like one of those helmets with the flip up welding shield.Question is...are the outside lenses servicible, can you clean them or replace them easily or do they scratch and get damaged easily and do you just throw them away. I have one of those low buck auto dark units. It works fine for me but the outer lens is getting a bit used if you know what I mean. A long time ago I used one of those fibre metal hoods with a gold lens ...hope that is the right term.Seemed a much better hood to me. Anything like that available now. I looked on Lincoln and Millers sights but did not find what I want.If I didn't have to sell the house and truck to get it I would like the Speedglass hood with the air attached. Im getting old and don't like to smoke welding rods...ha ha.I only weld ouside and have sometimes setup a fan to help. Regards Chris
Reply:Just because i am a goof I went and checked the speedglas hood a bit more on their website.They certainly can develop a lot of hype about new product.Too bad they can't figgure out Canada's postal code system. That really buggs me when a company that big won't or can't update their software to recognize new postal codes. We have only been here for 10 yearsWouldn't wear one now if they gave it to me.The crappy junk from China has no such problem.Regards Chris
Reply:My Nexgen and the fixed shade equivalent all use the same clear cover plate that holds the same ANSI rating as safety glasses. I looked it up today also.Last edited by atari; 05-20-2013 at 10:49 PM.(Home)Miller Maxstar 152 (sold)MM211/spool gunLincoln AC 225C(Work)Dynasty 350Powcon 300STLincoln SP-175TWeldlodgic AWS150sWeldlodgic AWS300Custom Resistance seam weldersCambridge Vacuum EB weldersI smell something burning.
Reply:Wow... never figured my noob question would generate so much good back and forth with a lot of info and arguments from various sides of the problem.Where am I today? I actually have two HF hoods (and yes I have recently learned that the only good thing about HF is their mid-grade mechanics gloves that seem to be holding up better than my Mechanics Gear gloves at 1/3 of the price!Anyhow, I actually have the "Blue Flame" helmet and the red "Racing Stripe" helmet. The Blue Flame was the one that caused me to ask the original question. After reading through the feedback, I decided to try the Racing Stripe helmet today and didn't have any issue except for once but it was near the corner and I'm pretty certain that the sensors were blocked.So, I have put both out in the sun to make sure their battery's are fully charged and will try the Blue Flame one again before deciding that the sensors are bad.Also, I will start saving up my pennies for a decent 4 sensor helmet. Most likely the Lincoln Electric Viking 2450 because I can get new locally at Indiana Oxygen for about $175.Thanks again,Bill
Reply:The only difference between the black, Blue, Red or Metal head helmets at HF is the paintjob....the active electrics are the same.Save your pennies and get a GOOD helmet...Those things are not rated for TIG less than 20 Amps.If you NEVER do low amp TIG then don't worry about it.Look at the Kobalt Helmet that Lowes Sells.$99...Auto Darkening Yes Variable Shade Yes Time Sensitivity Delay Yes Grind Mode Yes Number of Sensors 4 Auto Darkening Variable Shade Decal Welding Helmet•Lightweight construction •49% larger viewing area •Lens auto-darkens in 1/20000th of a second •Extended throat guard for protection Don't know how it would work with TIG, but seems decent.
Reply:i personally use a speedglass that I picked up from AirGas for 180 bucks, its variable shade pretty nice helmet, when I turn down my TA Fab 181i to 10amps (will hardly melt a razor blade) I don't get flashed at all, it seems to be working really good for me in any process, I usually tig on a shade 11, I mean I rarely go above 160 amps. and even when I do its mainly just for tacking, I set er to 180amps with zero downslope and give my tacks a quick blast, no arc flash though, at work we have a comparable optrel with the lion on the side, it flashes me all the time, or the batteries will be dead pisses me off, I don't weld that often at work just small stuff mig welding I work in a natural gas field in Alaska and am only allowed to weld in the yard nothing structural gotta have certs and the boss don't wanna pay the insurance for welding around process piping and what not
Reply:Originally Posted by TradetekWow... never figured my noob question would generate so much good back and forth with a lot of info and arguments from various sides of the problem.
Reply:Get a fixed lens and get used to it!
Reply:I got a fixed lense one coming from snapon...has the 4x5 window in it and I will put in the gold lense when I get it.Might be able to see a bit better as well, which isn't a bad thing.Regards Chris