Pipe fence questions

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Hello, I am new to the forum and have a few questions. I have been welding for about a year now and have been thinking about starting a business in the future (or part time work on the weekends) I am wanting to know what kind of tools I would need to do pipe fences. Thank you ahead of time
Reply:Well, guess I'll chime in. I started welding a few months ago because our retirement is to our horse ranch and welding pipe corals is an on-gojng affair. That said, the best "tool" I've found is an 1 7/8" notcher. You'll need it for a clean fit up of your rails and center verticals. See the WW posthttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=2975Alsohttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=3875Last edited by jlames; 08-24-2013 at 12:53 AM.
Reply:Here's a posting on a notcher. Looks nice put cost a few bucks. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=289841
Reply:Is that only for the thin pipe fences? I'm talking about the heavy pipe fences not sure if that is used in that or not thanks ahead
Reply:You will need a way to notch, a grinder, and an engine drive welder. All other tools are optional.That low buck notched is a nice tool, likely fairly expensive, but will pay for itself on the first good sized job.
Reply:Another very handy one is here. http://www.amazon.com/Pipe-Pro-Metal...d_sim_sbs_hg_1
Reply:Originally Posted by jlames That said, the best "tool" I've found is an 1 7/8" notcher. You'll need it for a clean fit up of your rails and center verticals. See the WW posthttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=2975
Reply:The TN 250 will do schedule 40 pipe from what I read. How heavy do you wanna go ??  Schedule 80 ?  It will do 2  1/2 '' OD.  So, if you have 2'' schedule 40 or 80 it is 2 1/2 '' OD and a quality drill and hole saw go for it.
Reply:Engine driven welder, chop saw, coping template for what ever size pipe you are using and a torch is all I use.
Reply:invest in a good engine drive like millers bobcat 225 the ranger 225 or hobarts champion elite their all more than capable of welding pipe and about 100 foot of welding lead,grinders,chop saws, torch, fit up and measuring tools, hand tools, etc but also buy either a wire feeder or small 180 amp or 211 amp mig machine for thinner gauge fencing or speeding up work not all the pipe or tubing used on fences is left over oil field drill pipe so keep the machine loaded with some welding electrodes and a good amount of .030 or .035 flux core welding wire you will find flux core will be perfect for fences. Theirs alot more than meets the eye when building fences but good luck on your business adventure.
Reply:So let me get this straight, you want to start a business doing something that you don't even know what tools you need?
Reply:Originally Posted by BobSo let me get this straight, you want to start a business doing something that you don't even know what tools you need?
Reply:I know the tools I need.... Torch,welder,grinder,etc. I wanted to know of some other tools to make the job easier...
Reply:Thank u everyone for your help
Reply:Pipe barnyards and what not that I have been around normally use 1 1/2 inch and up pipe for the most part, maybe some a little smaller but not much.  Never really saw the need for a notcher.  With practice you will be able to cope a pipe by sight with a torch good enough for a fence pretty darn quick.  A quick hit with the grinder and weld it in.  Smaller pipe cut a square end on the pipe then you can smash the end a little with a sledge on an anvil or in a press, you can pretty easily weld it up to another pipe then.   I'd say get to liking 6011 or 6010 welding rods.  you can go through rust, wind and still fill the occasional gap.   Remember, this isn't holding pressure and your going to be judged on productivity.  I'm not saying not to care, but it's a dang fence, make sure it's sturdy and figure out methods that make you fast at it.225ish amp engine drive, 4.5" grinder or 3, electric chop saw, torch set, couple fire extinguishers for if you get grass on fire, and if you have the money I'd say a gas chop saw (K saw).  I would not bother with a wire feeder or plasma for what your doing, maybe down the road when you have a real need but you have a ways to go IMO.
Reply:http://www.vogeltool.com/index.htmlhttp://tubefabricatingtools.vogeltoo...d-accessories?If you can get the business doing pipe fence .   Then anything that will speed up the process would be helpful.  A large tonnage press with multiple dies set up so you don't waste time changing dies and holder.  Coping by hand is great, I use it 90 percent of the time for pipe handrails.  It is a great skill to have.  However,  It is not faster than my pipe notcher that goes into my ironworker.  Changing over the station is a hassle.   I punch so much more than notch.  Thus,  it would be nice to have multiple stations dedicated to individuals processes.  Are these pipe fences fabbed 100% on-site.  If not then a shop would be a useful tool  and a way to quickly produce standard length panels.Also a good supplier, who will cut to length. and or trim mill ends .  No need to bring pipe with sheared ends into you ship.  That guarantees a couple of cuts on every length.  Worth using a supplier as a tool, too. If you have to paint, then material has to be cleaned at some point.  A table long enough..., jigs and fixtures.  A way to move you product around.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderhttp://www.vogeltool.com/index.htmlhttp://tubefabricatingtools.vogeltoo...d-accessories?If you can get the business doing pipe fence .   Then anything that will speed up the process would be helpful.  A large tonnage press with multiple dies set up so you don't waste time changing dies and holder.  Coping by hand is great, I use it 90 percent of the time for pipe handrails.  It is a great skill to have.  However,  It is not faster than my pipe notcher that goes into my ironworker.  Changing over the station is a hassle.   I punch so much more than notch.  Thus,  it would be nice to have multiple stations dedicated to individuals processes.  Are these pipe fences fabbed 100% on-site.  If not then a shop would be a useful tool  and a way to quickly produce standard length panels.Also a good supplier, who will cut to length. and or trim mill ends .  No need to bring pipe with sheared ends into you ship.  That guarantees a couple of cuts on every length.  Worth using a supplier as a tool, too. If you have to paint, then material has to be cleaned at some point.  A table long enough..., jigs and fixtures.  A way to move you product around.
Reply:http://www.shurkut.net/index.htmlSent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4
Reply:I plan it being 100% fabbed on site. Just want some things that will make my process faster I'm thinking of the pipe fences that you see in the country.. cattle and horse fences? I seen a welder that I had in mind. A Lincoln ranger 250g I have a grinder and a bunch of fit up tools. Squares,levels,etc. Not sure ow a pipe notcher works. I plan on fabricating up a truck crane probably buy one from harbor freight and chop it up and do some mods
Reply:I live in Tulsa Oklahoma where can I buy one of these notchers
Reply:I'm not one much for sticking my nose in when I haven't been invited but with half a century of ranch experience under me, I hope you'll take this in the spirit of extending a helping hand and not criticism. I'd hate to see you or anyone get into a business not knowing what to expect. We have 86 acres and probably 20k running feet of 1-7/8",  .090 pipe horse corral, roping arena, cutting and penning facilities round pens as well as 10k feet or so of 2", .110 cattle pen and every foot of it was prefabbed by Billet and a half dozen other retailers in the area at their shop. We just pick it up there or have it trucked over when we need it. I never learned how to weld until now because I wasn't in the fabbing business; I was in the using-it business but now with retirement coming up and ranching a full-time income-supplementing  thing, I need to be able to repair existing and, to a  lesser degree, fab new corral in our barn but only to meet some job-specific needs. That being said, it doesn't mean I haven't spent dozens of hours watching Billet and others fab railing together in their shops. The one constant in the pipe corral business is the relatively thin profit margins and because of that, successful fabricators don't much deviate from plans that work. With horse corrals and arenas for example, plans typically include 12' & 24' X 5' panels.  We take a number of them and clam shell them together end-to-end to create square or rectangle pens, round arenas and just about anything else we need, all in multiples of 12' 7 24' lengths.  The dimensions are always constant and exact though so when they come out to us, everything squares up on assembly no matter what config. we create or how large or small the complex is. Exact and square is what it's all about which is why panels are usually fabbed in a shop rather than "on-site" as you're planning to do it. They're built on long, flat tables long before they get to us at the ranch. It begins with 1-7/8" straight pipe. Some radius the top corners and some square them. Heavy duty cattle pens are nearly always radiused but horse pannels are usually squared. Depending on what you're using it for, you'll have 3, 4, 5 and sometimes 6-rail panels which means, for a 12' long panel,  three verticals at 5.5' (6" available for in-ground erection)  (two sides and a center support at 6'), a top bar at 12' and then 4, 6, 8 or 10 cross-members. I'll attach a picture or two to illustrate.The top bar is notched at both ends to butt into the side verticals and the center vertical is notched at the top to vertically butt into the top rail for center load support. Then, each of the cross-members have to be notched at both ends to fit in-between the side and center verticals. We typically use 4-rail panels (top rail plus 3 cross-member rails) so for a single, 12' panel, that adds up to 65' of rail stock ([email protected]', 1@12', 6@6') and 15 notches and weld sites. Add two post cup caps on the end verticals and you have yourself a 12', 4-rail panel. A 24' long panel would mean118' of rail stock ([email protected]', 1@24', 9@8') with 22 notches and weld sites.As you can see, while other methods of radius cutting is available, with the number of notches you'll be cutting for just one panel, a hydraulic notcher with dies is preferable not only because it's faster but it's more accurate. Accurate fit-up is the foundation for square results and speaking as one who's been putting them up and tearing them down for about 50 years now since I was old enough to hold my own pony, square is the number one priority because if the first coral is out of square by only an inch, after lining up 12 corrals for example, that one inch compounds to 2, 4, 8, 16 and 32" until eventually you can be 12' out of square and the gate panels don't fit... and if you jam them in there, the gates don't open. The only way to avoid this is to fab everything in a shop where there's a quality controlled-environment so multiple panel members can be cut to exact lengths and fit up can be square. Most shops have jig tables that the members just drop into for tacking and then it's off to full joinder welding. Remember, you're measurements are going to change with every variation in length and contribution; contribution meaning whether a gate is built into a panel or not. 12', 24', 3-rail, 4-rail, 5-rail, 6-rail, gated, non-gated... they all have their own plans with unique integral and overall measurements. And I haven't even talked about roping corrals, penning and cutting corals, return chutes, arenas, round pens and the tonnage of latches, chains, guards, posts, hinges and other "accessories" we use in pen and corral erection yet. It's alot more complicated than most people think and I know that I sound like I'm over-emphasizing accuracy and fit but I'm not. Nothing makes a ranched madder than to start the day with the sun at his back setting up pipe corrals and watching the sun set at the end of the day over his right shoulderA couple of good places I've found for detailed explanations arehttp://www.onemancorrals.com/and of coursehttp://www.gobobpipe.com/online-corr...gobob-pipe.htmI truly hope this helps. So many people here have helped me not make mistakes when it came to getting into welding over the last few months and I'm only trying to do my share in return. If you can get the speed and accuracy thing down, as a one-man band, you can make some good money giving ranchers and farmers what they want; the right thing the first time every time. That, customer service  and honoring your word every time goes a long way in our world where we're working on thin margins as well whether it's supplementing our retirement savings like I'll be doing here pretty soon or full-time ranching and farming as their career. We rely on the integrity of the people we deal with to put as many of the 5 major food groups on our table at night as we can for us and our families and being able to rely on the people who supply things as simple as pipe corral plays a huge role in that. I don't mean to go on and on but I'd like to see you make a go of this business, or any business you try, and ponying up for the right tools at the get-go will play a big role in whether you see a profit or not. Quality in-quality out.
Reply:Almost forgot.http://www.vogeltool.com/index.html?...FYZ_QgodawgAgQ
Reply:Fabbing panels is a pretty good biz if you can get it and keep busy at itFabbing in a shop with the proper equipment and jigs is great but fabbing in the field is a different gameBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:How about squeezing the ends together just enough so they but up against the post without needing to fishmouth it?
Reply:That's another way of doing it in fact it's exactly how companies like Priefert do theirs but for some reason, that method is almost appears with cattle fencing and chutes. Horse corals typically are constructed with the notched method. Perhaps someone else here knows why.Because the pinched ends are much easier to break loose. No one much cares if cattle get a cut or two but a cut/scarred up horse is a different matter. You never see post guards on top of steel t posts in cattle pasture either but lots of folks use them for horse fence along with smooth strand instead of barbed wire
Reply:Well, there you have it. I learn something new every day I'm happy to say. I never bothered to ask. We just went with Priefert for the roping arena and Billet or a dozen other panel makers over the years for our horses.
Reply:Back in the day we used to use one of these rigs to drill holes for Victaulic saddles and to notch the ends of pipe.They were called a "hole-thing" back then.Might work for you   http://www.triplerspecialty.com/fire...rudrillII.aspx Attached Images
Reply:I've been in fencing for about 8 years , my family for about 40+ years, I couldn't see you welding anything more than chain link gates, a decent mig welder,grinder, and if you want to spend the money a pipe notcher would be a big help, an alternative it putting a metal hole saw on a drill press