tube notchers

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looking at tn-100 or the jd2 anyone have Attached Images
Reply:Never used the JD notchers but I just bought one of the pro tools notchers and it is very heavy duty. This is the one I got Link here I got it off ebay for half what it was new and it is only 3 months old. I am sure jd's notchers are very good quality also.
Reply:Both look pretty good. I have the cheap Harbor Freight one and it works very well for me. Just make sure to get the good hole saws. I find the Morse Cobalt would the bestIf you get one of the above, make sure to post up a pic and some project cuts. Might make an good review post.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:737 do you mean proline tools
Reply:Originally Posted by ed mac737 do you mean proline tools
Reply:thanks 737 is it made in usa
Reply:Proudly made in the USA and I have to really give these guys a ton of credit. I bought a tubing bender which can be seen  In this post and I wasn't sure what brand it was so I emailed some pics to Pro-tools and they said it wasn't one of theres but they could make me some dies for it at the regular price. I called them to have them get started on the dies and we talked for at least 30 min and now I feel like I know them personally, they are really good guys and will go a mile out of there way to help you. Attached Images
Reply:I used the JD2 at work and I bought the protools for my shop.. the protools is heavier dutier (if thats even a word) and I am happy with it. I would get the protool one. not only is it better built but the bearings are smoother.
Reply:Well, I bought a Harbor "Fright" notcher. I was in a hurry, needed it now, store here in Reno, NV. When I put it on my drill press and did a test cut, the darn thing was about a sixteenth to eighth inch off from the center of the tube I was cutting, meaning, my holesaw blade cut all the way through one side and left a thick "lip" on the other. I bought longer (metric) mounting bolts for the "head", the part the rotating shaft went through, and put a washer and two thin spacers (made from some flashing aluminum) between the base and where the adjustable head bolted on, to move the head over a minute amount. Now that it is centered, AND I am running at 500 RPM speed (recommended on another manufacturers site) not the 320 RPM I was at (yes, you CAN go TOO slowly), it works like a charm. Because it is a bush bearing, I expect it's life will be shorter than a brand name but, I lube the crap out of the shaft when cutting and use spray lube regularly at the holesaw blade tooth cutting area while running. It now works fine and makes smooth fishmouths. Oh, I also had to use an additional C clamp to help steady the mount on my drill press table only because of how the unit's mounting holes lined up (or didn't - not the fault of the holesaw). Each of those things improved the operation notably.One of the manufacturers has a short video of theirs in operation, snoop around on the web and watch it. I picked up several seemingly simple but very important details on that one video - proper speed being one.Just my experience. We're building an Exo-Cage on my son's Toyota 4X4 Rock Crawler. Inch and five eighths HREW. We're using a simple center-push tubing bender (H F) and the old school "fill-the-tube-with (really HARD) packed-sand" to avoid tube collapsing or flattening at the bends. I also split a larger piece of tubing that fits just over the outside of the inch and five eighths and place each half over the tube right at the rollers in the bender. That extra piece eliminated those ugly "dents" in the bent tubes caused by the small radius rollers on either side of the center die.Works like a charm. Again, a bit slower, a few more steps than a beautiful ProTools, J-D or whomever, but it is getting the job done. I will probably eventually buy a Pro Tools bender in the end.My 2 cents.Stew in Reno
Reply:Just wondering what you guys have found to be the best brand hole saws for cutting steel tubing.
Reply:Originally Posted by 737mechanicJust wondering what you guys have found to be the best brand hole saws for cutting steel tubing.
Reply:X2 on the Lennox, I have had good luck with them.As far as the notcher, the first shop I worked at had one like the pro-tools one but I don't know who made it, it worked great, and there were some real hammerheads in that place that were less than gentle on the equipment.Yup
Reply:I found a super design a couple of years ago that was homebuilt.... http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/...read.php?t=413  which was the original posting I think ,but then it popped up over at Metalmeet too  http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showt...5&page=2&pp=10 I don't know if you must register to view these images,since I'm a member at both sites. This is actually a notcher that I wanted to replicate and like other things it required welding stuff together so I backed up from my planned projects to gather some welding tools & knowledge to be able to build whatever I wanted without begging friends & relatives for their help.... At least that's why I started welding...now I don't have to wait til someone else has time to do something I want.It's a pretty simple design & should be an easy build ...with a welder...I've always found some super designs for tools at fabrication and metalworking sites. I started doing research at them first,but it became very clear very fast that welding was a needed skill--before---I tried some of the things they had to offer for my intended projects.Last edited by mudbugone; 08-01-2008 at 08:03 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by mudbugoneI found a super design a couple of years ago that was homebuilt.... http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/...read.php?t=413  which was the original posting I think ,but then it popped up over at Metalmeet too  http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showt...5&page=2&pp=10 I don't know if you must register to view these images,since I'm a member at both sites. This is actually a notcher that I wanted to replicate and like other things it required welding stuff together so I backed up from my planned projects to gather some welding tools & knowledge to be able to build whatever I wanted without begging friends & relatives for their help.... At least that's why I started welding...now I don't have to wait til someone else has time to do something I want.It's a pretty simple design & should be an easy build ...with a welder...I've always found some super designs for tools at fabrication and metalworking sites. I started doing research at them first,but it became very clear very fast that welding was a needed skill--before---I tried some of the things they had to offer for my intended projects.
Reply:That you "Racin Jason?"  I found that way back in 2006 and had to go into my folders of tool designs to find the copy I made of it. I'm glad you posted a picture of it for all to see and take a bow for your design...You outdid yourself with it BTW.  I've seen it posted on the www in a few places,especially cycle fabrication sites...they love the thing.  I've been concentrating on other stuff and hadn't gotten around to fabing one,but it was put back for future use. I was going to need it if I ever get the room in my shop to start a reverse trike project.Dave
Reply:Originally Posted by mudbugoneThat you "Racin Jason?"  I found that way back in 2006 and had to go into my folders of tool designs to find the copy I made of it. I'm glad you posted a picture of it for all to see and take a bow for your design...You outdid yourself with it BTW.  I've seen it posted on the www in a few places,especially cycle fabrication sites...they love the thing.  I've been concentrating on other stuff and hadn't gotten around to fabing one,but it was put back for future use. I was going to need it if I ever get the room in my shop to start a reverse trike project.Dave
Reply:I have the HF model and have had no problems.  Very good for the price vs result. YMMV. Best hole saws I have used are the Milwaukee " Ice Hardened™ hole saws.http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/n...9?OpenDocumentMilwaukee® Ice Hardened™ products utilize a proprietary cryogenic hardening process that improves upon traditional heat treat processes. Unlike surface coatings that wear away, cryogenics harden to the core by minimizing soft metal (austenite) and creating more hard metal (martensite). The result is a product that is more consistently hard throughout, resulting in life up to 50% longer than the competition.Milwaukee Introduces New Ice Hardened™ Hole Saw03/19/2008Milwaukee Introduces New Ice Hardened™ Hole SawMILWAUKEE, WI – Milwaukee Electric Tool Corporation introduces Ice Hardened™ hole saws, a new generation of hole saws that offer up to 50% longer life than the competition and are ideal for metal and wood cutting in a wide variety of HVAC, electrical, plumbing and maintenance/repair applications.Milwaukee Ice Hardened™ products utilize a proprietary cryogenic hardening process that improves upon traditional heat treat processes. Unlike surface coatings that wear away, cryogenics harden to the core by minimizing soft metal (austenite) and creating more hard metal (martensite). The result is a product that is more consistently hard throughout, resulting in life up to 50% longer than the competition.Milwaukee Ice Hardened™ hole saws also feature Matrix II bi-metal construction for greater durability and a unique precision-ground tooth geometry for faster cutting. A positive rake angle cuts more aggressively while deeper gullets quickly remove chips. A radiused back face reduces stress on the teeth, ensuring that the blade delivers optimum life and speed. Functional slot geometry allows for a standard slotted screwdriver to fit completely underneath the plug for easier plug removal.Milwaukee offers 49 different Ice Hardened hole saws in a variety of diameters as well as kits which range from 10 to 28 pieces. Many hole saws are also offered in a 25-pack bulk option.Key Features/Specs    * Ice Hardened for up to 50% longer life than the competition    * Matrix II bi-metal teeth for greater durability    * Positive rake angle for fast cutting    * Radiused tooth back reduces stress on teeth    * Deeper gullets for fast chip removal    * Functional slot geometry for easier plug removal    * Available March 15, 2008Good luck on your search!
Reply:Originally Posted by 737mechanicJust wondering what you guys have found to be the best brand hole saws for cutting steel tubing.
Reply:Another notching safety tip:When you get halfway through a notch, back out and remove the first "half moon" chunk of tube and then finish the notch.If that first piece doesn't eject itself and you leave it rattling around in the hole-saw it it can get jammed in there and stop everything in an instant!  Breaking the hole-saw or a shaft or if you use a powerful handheld drill motor like mine - twist your wrist up and throw you into the wall! - ask me how I know!
Reply:Originally Posted by TSORAnother notching safety tip:When you get halfway through a notch, back out and remove the first "half moon" chunk of tube and then finish the notch.If that first piece doesn't eject itself and you leave it rattling around in the hole-saw it it can get jammed in there and stop everything in an instant!  Breaking the hole-saw or a shaft or if you use a powerful handheld drill motor like mine - twist your wrist up and throw you into the wall! - ask me how I know!
Reply:And the big daddy of secrets for cutting difficult tubing. Try wedging a wooden plug into the end before you cut it. Some tubes will always seem to grab on the bits more. Some will make the holesaw bit grab so hard, teeth get sheared off, or the tube will be bent to ruins. A round dowell plug jammed into the tube gives the bit something solid enough to stabilize the bit as you go, yet soft enough as not to cause a lot of extra drag on the bit.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloAnd the big daddy of secrets for cutting difficult tubing. Try wedging a wooden plug into the end before you cut it. Some tubes will always seem to grab on the bits more. Some will make the holesaw bit grab so hard, teeth get sheared off, or the tube will be bent to ruins. A round dowell plug jammed into the tube gives the bit something solid enough to stabilize the bit as you go, yet soft enough as not to cause a lot of extra drag on the bit.
Reply:Here are two detail shots of the add on's I used on the H-F notcher to make it align correctly. The shot from the tube clamp side shows the big spacer washer and two additional shims made from aluminum flashing.Each mounting bolt (3 total) has the same washer/shim combination. As noted previously, the only reason to do this was to get the tubing being fishmouthed moved to the center of the holesaw blade. As supplied, the center is about one eighth inch off.Additionally, note the threads showing through the black mount. That is because I replaced the orignal mounting bolts with 20 or 25mm long ones. The second shot simply shows the additional washer I added on the bolt head side to give the head something to push against. The washers supplied are just too small to do any good.With these mods and running at 500 RPM with steadylube on both the notcher shaft and the cutting teeth, it zips through inch and five eighths HREW .133 wall. Next, I am going to try adding the wood plug-in-the-end trick as suggested.Stew in Reno Attached Images
Reply:Racin' Jason, agree with "Mudbegone", if you drew upthat notcher, you are "Da Man"! I snooped around the web but could not find the files with your design or construction drawings. Though I now have my H-F notcher working, I am becoming addicted to building and would like to see if I want to make a better version, as in, yours.Do you have a link to your drawings?Stew in Reno.
Reply:The thing I liked about Jasons design was it mounts flat to a table...looked to be easier to build and use over the other designs I found. Most are more like the HF notcher so they can be used with a drill press. I'm with you on this & hope Jason adds some drawings to go with his pictures on his design.Sorry guys!  no drawings exist.I built that out of necessity from a bunch of scrap one evening.  I just had an idea in my head and went with it.  I can provide lots of photos though!
Reply:Works for me---We like photos....Thanks Jason.
Reply:Do you use a square, a level, or pipe wrap. I am talking about marking it so your two cuts are in line.
Reply:Originally Posted by 6010Do you use a square, a level, or pipe wrap. I am talking about marking it so your two cuts are in line.
Reply:Originally Posted by mudbugoneWorks for me---We like photos....Thanks Jason.
Reply:Originally Posted by TSORI don't quite understand what you're asking.What two cuts?
Reply:What I am asking is simpler than that. I don't notch much pipe but in the past I have used this method to mark it so that the two notches on each end are directly opposite each other and in the same plane as those on the other end.I use a square against the pipe so I can measure over half the diameter of the pipe and then use a level to mark the other side. I then use a piece of angle Iron to extend a line to the other end on both sides of the pipe so the notches on the other end are lined up.I don't know if this is the best way and that is what I am asking.
Reply:Originally Posted by 6010What I am asking is simpler than that. I don't notch much pipe but in the past I have used this method to mark it so that the two notches on each end are directly opposite each other and in the same plane as those on the other end.I use a square against the pipe so I can measure over half the diameter of the pipe and then use a level to mark the other side. I then use a piece of angle Iron to extend a line to the other end on both sides of the pipe so the notches on the other end are lined up.I don't know if this is the best way and that is what I am asking.
Reply:Originally Posted by 6010What I am asking is simpler than that. I don't notch much pipe but in the past I have used this method to mark it so that the two notches on each end are directly opposite each other and in the same plane as those on the other end.I use a square against the pipe so I can measure over half the diameter of the pipe and then use a level to mark the other side. I then use a piece of angle Iron to extend a line to the other end on both sides of the pipe so the notches on the other end are lined up.I don't know if this is the best way and that is what I am asking.
Reply:Thanks for sharing TSOR.  I will have to make one of those.This is what I came up with a few years ago for doing pipe railing.  I could never remember to keep track of the seam.Here is the way I keep line up opposite ends.  It is a small framing square welded to a piece of 1" channel.  The square is centered and perpendicular to the channel.  The square is dropped over the end of the mitered pipe.  When the level is plumb and the square touches both sides of two edges of the mitered end then opposite end in the saw is aligned properly.  I usually make parallel cuts for railing.  I guess you could use an angle finder to cut other angles.
Reply:Tapwelder, you can buy the tube degree finder from www.trick-tools.com they are not very expensive at all. Also possible, Lowbuck tools.comAnd then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Latest update on my reworked H-F Notcher. Had the thing running like a top, lubing the livin stuffun' outa it when running. Last two times I ran it, the top bronze bushing started walking out. I started to design a simple hold down to keep it in the upper guide hole (where the rotating shaft runs through) and remembered the entire unit was just over 30 days old, so, I traded it back in for a new one. I kept my spacer washers and longer bolts and set the new one up the same. Will be interesting to see if this new notcher starts walking the top bearing out like the first one. Anybody have any experience with this?Stew in Reno
Reply:TSOR, this is going back a few days to your great pictures. I meant to ask, do you lube when you cut? I have been slopping the dickins outta my cutter while it runs. I read on another site somewhere, can't for the life of me remember where, that our holesaw blades are only good for 10-11 cuts. I think I'm whacking many more cuts than that.How about you and what blade do you like?
Reply:Originally Posted by cranestTSOR, this is going back a few days to your great pictures. I meant to ask, do you lube when you cut? I have been slopping the dickins outta my cutter while it runs. I read on another site somewhere, can't for the life of me remember where, that our holesaw blades are only good for 10-11 cuts. I think I'm whacking many more cuts than that.How about you and what blade do you like?
Reply:I hit the tube with a shot of WD40 and have at it.  I'm getting well over 100 notches out of Lennox hole saws.
Reply:The table mount design looks to be portable, and easy on set up time.  The only thing that worries me is the power.  It looks like a broken wrist waiting to happen.  I've been on the receiving end of a hand held power tool goin' wild when it binds or stalls.The press mount is probably less convenient, but most that could happen is a broken tooth on the cutter, or smokin' your belts."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammThe table mount design looks to be portable, and easy on set up time.  The only thing that worries me is the power.  It looks like a broken wrist waiting to happen.  I've been on the receiving end of a hand held power tool goin' wild when it binds or stalls.The press mount is probably less convenient, but most that could happen is a broken tooth on the cutter, or smokin' your belts.
Reply:Ok, I'm sold.  SortaI recently switched over to annular cutters for large holes.  I started to get real nervous about punchin' holes with the torch.  Stuff comes flyin' back into your face.I agree that a drill press isn't very rigid.  Unless it's a real big heavy duty one.  I see the table wobbling when I run the hole hog.  At most, I'm out a few thou.  But when all's said and done, I still got all my fingers, toes, and nose.I don't know if the type of machine you use is industry standard.  I don't work with round tubing.  If I'm out of line I pre apologize.  I'm here to learn, and don't mind gettin' a dope slap once in a while"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:TSOR - Agree re:solid mount for the notcher. Even with a bolt through the drill press table and an additional C clamp on another place, the whole rig has a slight movement to it. I am looking for the parts to duplicate your rig. Bearings and shaft are from???And RD, parafin as a lube...great! I gotta try that. It only makes sense. Thanks for sharing with all of us. Why these sites exist!Stew in Reno
Reply:I use the JD posted earlier everyday and it works flawlesslytwo years of continual service with Bimetal saws on 4130 chromoly and not a hiccupMechanical Engineer
Reply:Originally Posted by cranestTSOR - Agree re:solid mount for the notcher. Even with a bolt through the drill press table and an additional C clamp on another place, the whole rig has a slight movement to it. I am looking for the parts to duplicate your rig. Bearings and shaft are from???
Reply:I have extensive experience using tubing notchers.One of the most important things is to keep your drill press at around 100 -200 RPM if possible.Use good lubricant.You need a metal working drill press. One horsepower size is very helpful.And if you can afford a albrecht keyless chuck you will never go back to anything else.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 09-11-2008 at 02:17 AM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:i went with the jd2 it sure is heavy duty must be 30Ibswere do you get albrecht chucks Attached Images
Reply:For those of you that don't have a tube notcher, here's a handy calculator that figures out what angles to cut in tubing so they fit together enough to weld them. A little dressing with the grinder after cutting and before welding makes them a little more snug.....http://snip.awardspace.com/
Reply:Albrecht and Rohm keyless chucks are great - but I would never use mine with a high torque, high vibration application like a tube notcher.  These chucks use the torque applied by the cutter to continually self tighten - and they can get really tight.  They are very expensive and and much higher precision than a conventional Jacobs chuck, so I try to be real gentle on them.Actually - I do have a Rohm that a coworker screwed up by running a huge reduced shank bit in it and allowed it to spin.  We had to use a pipe wrench to back the thing off, and the jaws were screwed.  The company bought me a new Albrecht to replace it and I do use the screwed up one with really big bits and hole saws...