Mono stringer stairs?

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Has anyone had any experience with these type of stairs? I will be getting some drawings tomorrow from the contractor.  I want to know everything there is to know about these before I give him a quote.  All I know so far is that it's about 10 feet total height and there will be a landing and and a turn at 4 feet.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:theres not much to them.   Around here the precast treads are around $50-60 bucks each.   for a shop fabricated and installed stair we try to shoot for around $500 a tread.    Im sure your overhead is lower than kommiefornia so your cost will be lower.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by osweldHas anyone had any experience with these type of stairs? I will be getting some drawings tomorrow from the contractor.  I want to know everything there is to know about these before I give him a quote.  All I know so far is that it's about 10 feet total height and there will be a landing and and a turn at 4 feet.
Reply:It just goes from the main level to the basement in a $1.5 M home.  So there is not going to be much traffic on it.  But I still plan on building it to withstand 300# + fatties.Last edited by osweld; 02-26-2013 at 11:19 AM.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:Originally Posted by osweldIt just goes from the main level to the basement in a $1.5 M home.  So there is not going to be much traffic on it.  But I still plan on building it to withstand 300# + fatties.
Reply:Originally Posted by Dualietheres not much to them.   Around here the precast treads are around $50-60 bucks each.   for a shop fabricated and installed stair we try to shoot for around $500 a tread.    Im sure your overhead is lower than kommiefornia so your cost will be lower.
Reply:nope.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Here is the drawing I have done for the project Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:Will this be signed off and stamped by a P.E.?Blackbird
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonWill this be signed off and stamped by a P.E.?
Reply:Not sure how you would make the railing stiff enough.  As far as ADA I don't think open risers are allowed, at least in CA.  There are a whole new set of rules in CA, they don't go by ADA, but they don't have clear rules either.  Apparently our residents have different handicapped needs than the other 49 states. It's very aggravating.  One instpector made me redo an entire set because the risers were a 1/4" wrong according to his spec book.  I went down to a brand new hospital and measured those, which is where I got my specs, same inspector.  He finally agreed he really didn't have hard rules yet, just not the same as the rest of thecountry.
Reply:The contractor gave me this picture to make it similar to.  Thankfully we don't have all the codes here in Missouri and Illinois that you do in California.  In some areas we don't even need plumbing or electrical inspections. Attached ImagesMiller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:I could build ten times as much if I didn't have to deal with the state.  Just my last commercial deck addition took 2 years in Sacramento plancheck and 3 weeks to build.  They fined me the same amount as if I didn't have the plans because I put in one pier block before they were approved.  I put the block in as a corner to shoot grade off of for the design.      Even if you don't have codes or inspectors, you probably do have to meet ADA on a commercial app, so it might be worth checking into.  There are a lot of people out here who make a living suing buisnesses that have compliance issues.
Reply:This is just a residential house so hopefully I won't have any problems.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:I like it.Never built one but now I'm sure I need one at my place Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:It will look good.  My metal spplier sells premade treads for stairs
Reply:Since this is going into a high end house are the final stair treads exotic wood, marble, or what. I don't think you would be using preformed stair treads from a steel supply house indoors in a high end house.  How are the stair treads going to attach to the center support.  I also don't think the horizontal parts under the hand railing would meet code as they are climbable. The drawing looks great in 3D, wish I could use computer graphics that well.
Reply:Originally Posted by mwshawSince this is going into a high end house are the final stair treads exotic wood, marble, or what. I don't think you would be using preformed stair treads from a steel supply house indoors in a high end house.  How are the stair treads going to attach to the center support.  I also don't think the horizontal parts under the hand railing would meet code as they are climbable. The drawing looks great in 3D, wish I could use computer graphics that well.
Reply:You will have no ADA conflict being residential.  It looks like a cool project. I think the treads would be plenty strong enough, especially if  you use 4X thick material.  I taught myself 3D modeling on FORMZ, which is like solid works.   I havent tried sketchup.  The full version of FORMZ was close to a grand if I remember right. The learning curve is steep but once you figure it out drawings go fast. For drawing weldments and machinery I find those two programs much better than autocad, especially if you draw pipe bends.
Reply:Did you do  the drawing and flythru on google sketchup?
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartDid you do  the drawing and flythru on google sketchup?
Reply:I was told by a shop teacher back in the 70's if you can't draw it, you probably can't build it.  I have to admit though, most of my creative work was late at night with a twelvepack  Repeating it though is where CAD comes in. In 3D, if it doesn't fit in the drawing, it won't fit in real life either. I have an 11X17 printer that handles most projects.  I'll have to check out sketchup, the legal version of formZ was about a grand. I'm pretty fast at it now. Solid works or formZ seems better to me than autocad, especially if you are drawing bent tube projects. Solidworks seems to be becoming the indutry standard, FormZ is better on a Mac though. I like your results on sketchup, especially the flythrough. Good Job!
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartmost of my creative work was late at night with a twelvepack
Reply:The contractor & home owner likes the design.  They now want me to make trays to pour concrete in for the steps & landings. There is going to be more than 2000 lbs of concrete on the whole thing.  What size stringer do you guys think I should use?  With wood treads I thought 8x6x1/4 would be enough.  Do you think 10x6x1/4 would be strong enough?Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:Each step is 46" x 11.5" x 2.75"Last edited by osweld; 04-03-2013 at 06:58 PM.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand toolsOriginally Posted by osweldThe contractor & home owner likes the design.  They now want me to make trays to pour concrete in for the steps & landings. There is going to be more than 2000 lbs of concrete on the whole thing.  What size stringer do you guys think I should use?  With wood treads I thought 8x6x1/4 would be enough.  Do you think 10x6x1/4 would be strong enough?
Reply:We had done one a few years back, the stringer was of round pipe I think it was around 10 inch pipe close to 5/16 wall. The main problem we had was the customer wanted round stock 3/4" to rap around the pipe two pcs per step with flat bars to bolt wood tread to. Keeping everything level was a bitch just due to the design. In the end they come out great , but definately underquoted the hrs!  Good luck!
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelson--the stringer size, design, etc. is the province of a P.E., not a forum. The concrete weight addition affects the entire design, including the mounting.
Reply:Here is a pic ( not my project) of some exterior ones. I think they used 6X6X1/4" stringer, 3X3X3/16" uprights, 3/8"x6"x24" flat supports. They looked and felt strong. I'm not sure of wall thickness. I guessed by the edge radius. Attached Images
Reply:Hopefully here is a second pic. Attached Images
Reply:I got the job.  The engineer is looking the the drawing over now.  As soon as he is done I will have the final design signed off.  Then I can start the real fun.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:Agree with Brett and Dave. I think with the right spine it will look awesome and feel solid.
Reply:They really are not as hard as they lookBut..With a bit of Experience you can help yourself and the job .. ie the pics Blackbart showed , if the fabricator had extended the springing point , no risers , less work and stronger, also in the first pic a better fixing.Yes I've heard it before , it makes the onsite measure harder.You cant make what you cant measure.BTW the fist had a 101x101 x6.4  SHS Spine the second a 200x75 5mm RHS SpineLast edited by Brett; 04-09-2013 at 07:44 AM.A good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:http://www.stairporn.org/wp-content/...01-267x400.jpgThis is an interesting take on the mono stringer staircase.
Reply:Originally Posted by osweldThe contractor & home owner likes the design.  They now want me to make trays to pour concrete in for the steps & landings. There is going to be more than 2000 lbs of concrete on the whole thing.
Reply:Hi. Ive made this stair for a friend...using thick tubular steel and I-beam with flange for the riser support..but i only used wooden steps..Mario Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by zipzitYou mention the word concrete.  Does that also mean the outer walls are concrete, too? Isn't that going to be a bear to poor around the embedded supports you are showing in the sketch up video?  If you had to make an adjustment of 1/2" to the embedded supports how do you do that? --Zip.
Reply:I am finally ordering the materials today.  This weekend I figured out the easiest way to install this monster in the house.  I have some heavy carts built out of 12" channel.  I am going to build a boom and put a counterweight on one.  I will test it in the shop.  I am hoping we can set the stairs in three sections with treads already welded to the stringer.  Hopefully I can do the install with only a couple of guys.  I will post pics of my progress.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:I have another thread about what gas to use with my XMT 304 & Optima pulser.  I would like to hear some comments there from anyone who has pulse miged before. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=269391Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:Originally Posted by ironheart_ramHi. Ive made this stair for a friend...using thick tubular steel and I-beam with flange for the riser support..but i only used wooden steps..Mario
Reply:I have most of the parts cut & have started assembling this monster. Here are some pics. Attached ImagesMiller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:3 more steps Attached ImagesMiller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:Being a carpenter, i don't get how you guys could build that monster off site. Your shop floor might be level, but the building it's going into might be out a mile. Same with the walls. The plumb cut at the top which will see a mounting plate i'm guessing, could be out.
Reply:We took a lot of measurements.  I drew the section of the house this stairway is going in first.  Then I drew the stairway to fit the crap I have to work with.  Now I fabricate using the dimensions from the drawing.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:I thought you said it would have an engineer's sign off. Let him spec it.Bruce DeLaetHeavy Equipment Mechanic and Welder1948 SA-200 short hood1949 LincWelder 1801963 SA-200 red faceMiller S-32-P
Reply:Originally Posted by delaet20I thought you said it would have an engineer's sign off. Let him spec it.
Reply:I like to do my own drawings.  I don't have to pay for the PE to do that.  I can pay myself instead.  My PE signs off on my drawings. That way I know it will fit.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:I am sorry, I had not seen the page 2 before I commented. They are a very cool looking set of stairs.Bruce DeLaetHeavy Equipment Mechanic and Welder1948 SA-200 short hood1949 LincWelder 1801963 SA-200 red faceMiller S-32-P
Reply:Finally finished with the biggest section. Attached ImagesMiller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:Looks awesome!!!Well done!