Not enough negativity

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So I've been trawling the forums, looking for information I might use to make a decision regarding a supplier for a new shop. Everything that I've read on the various makes and models of welders seems to be skewed overwhelmingly to the positive, I guess because of ownership bias, or maybe the phase of the friggin moon or something. I think I need a little negativity in my life, some cons to offset the pros on various products. So here's the meat- I'm looking for a mig/tig/plastorch combo, matching from one manufacturer. I know I could save some money picking up machines hodge-podge from auction or whatever, but I have narry the patience to deal with more than one supplier for service and parts. What I need are opinions on all the manufacturers from people who've dealt with them, preferably from those who have purchased. Now no bullsh** please, there's enough of that flying around already. I'll only have this one chance to start up, and I need some genuine help. My projected needs are:-250 class mig, 4 roll drive, preferably inverter with pulse capability-200 class tig, inverter, with moderate wave shaping capabilities-Plasma torch capable of quality cuts on 1/2" stainlessEveryone says they have exactly the products I need, and it's making me crazy. Will it be HTP tig and ESAB mig? Lincoln mig and Thermadyne tig? Or Miller for both? What about the plastorch? *arrrrg* HELP!FIRE AND WIRE
Reply:A Millermatic 350P, I can't say for a Tig, I am not familiar with Tig machines, but a Hypertherm plasma such as the PM45 should do ya, personally I want the PM1250, for the extra power!#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Do you only have one make of car/truck in your life?Does Ford make the best big truck and sub compact as well sports car? Miller Lincoln Therma-dyne all make fine products. Waning to keep it all one color for reasons of continuity of suppler, then look to the LWS for that continuity and get the best machine for the job. Is Lincoln even making plasma machines???  How about Hypertherm making welding machines???  So then you are limited to Miller Therma Dyne ESAB and the chinese junk. May some I have not thought of. Your quest for a single brand is good on the surface but has issues.
Reply:How about just making your local welding supply store your one source.....if you have a good LWS they will carry the best brands....and may even have techs that are trained by all the manufacturers. That way you can get all different colors from one supplier.....just make sure they have the gray plasma from Hypertherm.If you only need to do the 1/2 stainless ocasionally....use the Powermax45.....if you are doing it more often, the Powermax1000. I have blue and gray in my shop.Jim Colt
Reply:Well Miller covers the bases but honestly Hypertherm gets the nod for the plasma. And like others have said... Check out the LWS and go with what they support / sell, makes getting parts easy.
Reply:Now I am confused!Are you wanting info on what to buy for each unit, or are you wanting to buy all the units from the same manufacturer?If its the later, that would be dumb, because not all manufacturers have the best of all of them, that would be like buying all your shoes as in dress, athletic and work all from the same manufacturer.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Hey fellas. The Idea originally was to purchase all my equipment from one MANUFACTURER, however now that you mention it that may be a bit dumb. What I really want is a go-to guy, or small team of people, to help me get the things I need and keep them running. I know there's an Airgas nearby, as well as a few mom and pop operations. I've barked up that tree before an came away kinda feeling like that type of place isn't interested, or maybe not even able, to work with me on price. Needless to say, the manufaturers are... if I buy a machine package from them. I dunno, I don't think I have a handle on exactly what I want yet anyway. So let's approach it from a different angle. I just bought a home with a 30 x 40 outbuilding with 100 amp independent service, wired 220. I have a lot of experience with heavy assemblies, mostly for Big Oil and the Navy. I also have a lot experience with stainless steel fluid handling systems where asthetics are critical. I have a few ideas on how I could capitalize on my skill set from home, but every shop I've ever worked at has had top of the line Miller equipment, PIPEPROs, AXCESSs, DYNASTYs and the like. I'm just afraid that I may be biased now and not even know it. So I'm looking for advice, recommendations, criticism, or anything else that will help me make an informed decision. Also, anything above $5K will make my wife's head spin... she's been behind me so far, but I don't wanna press my luck! So, what say you?FIRE AND WIRE
Reply:Well!In that case, being limited to under $5000.00, you will definitely be limited, you might not get everything you listed inside that price, unless you can live with buying one or two of those, or even all three on the used market.The used market right now because of the economy, is really good!There are a lot of really nice machines on the used market due to places going out of business, and individuals being let go from their jobs!Esab has a nice Mig/Tig machine, but I would advise not going that route, if the one goes down, you lose both to the repair shop, and thats not good if you are under the gun to get a job done.Think Miller 252, its a really nice 30 to 300 amp machine, and I have seen it on sale new recently for $1999.00, I just a month ago, purchased a used Hypertherm PM600 for $800.00, it will cut 1/2" steel all day and never tire!Then theres the tig, there are a lot of good used power sources on the market, that either come with or you can add tig to it, and it would give you Stick welding as well.I believe if you are mindful of how you go about this, you can get it done inside of $5000.00, but I also believe that you have set your sights quite high, if you think you can get all of it new for the $5000.00, unless that is you go with a multi process machine, but there then is that problem of being welder-less, if something goes wrong with the power source.And then theres the Chinese market, but we won't even go there!Ken.Last edited by Ken Dennis; 03-30-2009 at 02:29 AM.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:On such a limited budget, why not focus on the equipment and processes that you are going to use the MOST, and try to make some money first. A lot of people think that the machine comes first, then the business. It's really not like that. If you get a big job, then justify getting the machine you need for it! What will your wife have to say then? You should be able to get any machine you want/need in a matter of days.I know you said you were going to be doing heavy plate, but you spec'd midrange machines? I was expecting more of a 350-400amp class of machine. What EXACTLY are you planning on doing? 1/4", 1/2', 3/4", 1"? What is "heavy plate" to you, and how much welding to you forsee yourself doing? That will give the guys in the know a much better idea of what to recommend.I can tell you for sure that you will not get any recomendations for a chinese machine. They currently have no place in a production environment. For the record I do own a chinese plasma, and it works great and gives me zero trouble, but it doesn't cut as thick as it claimed to cut, and it could burn up at any time with nobody that I could rely on to take care of me ASAP like a LWS could do.Sticking with one brand isn't feasable. Unfortunately. If I had to make my suggestions I'd go with a Lincoln or Miller MIG, a Thermal Dynamics 200AC/DC TIG/Stick, and a ThermalCut or Hypertherm Plasma. And I'd get them all from your LWS so you have a face to complain to if you have issues but you won't get them all for $5k.Regarding your LWS, I'm not surprised you didn't get much enthusiasm. To me you come off like a tire-kicker that isn't really going to spend any money. Go in with the intention on buying something, print out some prices from some e-welding suppliers and see if they can price match. Most will do what they can to help you out - especially if you buy three machines at once.
Reply:I'll chime in here by asking this question, besides welding equipment, what else are your going to try and squeeze into your $5K budget for a business aimed at 'welding heavy plate'?If you're talking about even modest sized assemblies, you're going to need some rigging equipment, material handling equipment, and suitable welding tables.  A used forklift and a heavy steel table might get the job done, but you've just blown your budget.  A hoist/rolling gantry/winch might due to, but again you need to pay for this stuff, unless you already own it.I think you're budget is unrealistic, unless you're not giving us a clear picture of what you're going to be fabricating.  I think you really should either find/earn some more startup capital, or find a market welding on smaller items to start.  That way you can just buy your welders, fab a light duty work table, and go.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I'll chime in here. In terms of GMAW I happen to like Lincoln aside from a torch messed up by a coworker, I've never had any problems with them. In the stay away from category. Hobart Ironman series.  Not just low cost, but plain cheap.