MIG Welding Aluminum Without a Spool Gun (Video)

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Goodafternoon, everyone! Hope y'all are having a nice weekend. Heres a recent video of mine... It was highly requested, and although I'd never attempted welding aluminum with anything but a TIG machine or a massive 500 amp push-pull gun, I decided to wing it and hope for the best.What did I find? Contamination. A LOT of contamination... The wire was clean and the metal was clean, so, best I can figure thats coming from the drive rolls (steel, with grease/crap, and steel on them), and the STEEL liner in the gun.But aside from that, it worked... great! I had some problems but it was still far more successful than stick welding aluminum, atleast when I tried that a while back. I loosened the tension (greatly) and only had feeding issues when the wire burned back and I pusled the trigger hoping to pop it loose (DONT do that,  ). I also noticed that this wire has a tendancy to burn back when you stop the weld, so I yank the gun back to increase the Contact-Tip-To-Work-Distance, thus preventing the wire from "sticking".It was fun. And although it should be obvious, I'll say it anyway. This isnt ment to be a how-to. I just wondered how this would work, and went for it. It was really fun Hope you guys like the video![Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Lanse, want to tinker? Make your self a graphite tip for the mig and see if it solves your burn back sticking issue. Something like this:http://www.tbi-industries.com/englis...m?2unternehmen
Reply:You did much better than I ever did Lanse.  I burned up 10 tips in under an hour when I had tried.I'm gonna set up my suitcase, time and Q300 gun with .035 5356 and a teflon liner and give it a whirl soon.  I'm interested in whether or not the Pulser will make mig Aluminum turn out better than without one on a regular gun.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255You did much better than I ever did Lanse.  I burned up 10 tips in under an hour when I had tried.I'm gonna set up my suitcase, time and Q300 gun with .035 5356 and a teflon liner and give it a whirl soon.  I'm interested in whether or not the Pulser will make mig Aluminum turn out better than without one on a regular gun.
Reply:Try 4043 wire. I think you'll have better results. I have a 30A spool gun I run off a Millermatic 250 and 4043 wire runs alot better then 5356.
Reply:Campbell Hausfeld make an aluminum kit so as to convert over to weld aluminum.This might explain why my CH welder has such a fast wirespeed,the wirespeed dial goes from 1-10 and anything after 5 on the dial is just too fast for mig welding.Going to give it a shot myself one day.My welder has an 8 foot gun cable because shorter is better when feeding aluminum hence the spoolgun. Attached ImagesMaxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of holler
Reply:Originally Posted by vpd66Try 4043 wire. I think you'll have better results. I have a 30A spool gun I run off a Millermatic 250 and 4043 wire runs alot better then 5356.
Reply:My first go at it was with a Thermadyne FP140, .030, 4043, with a 10 foot gun. At first it was a TOTAL disaster. Being the newb I was, and not doing any homework beforehand it was a blood pressure elevator! After countless bird nests (I was determined) I found that 1) Voltage wide open, 2) WFS maxed out which was less than ideal, and 3) nothing less than a straight whip was moderately sufficient at best. When I say straight that's what I mean too; pulling the cart around with the whip RED FACED and hitting the thermal protection. By the time I got into spray mode the wire would swell and start binding at the contact tip, and yet another bird nest. This was with a steel liner that was also introducing contaminates, couldn't get a Teflon liner for this gun either. So out it went, and in with the MM211, and a spool gun. Problems solved.  Late to bed, and early to rise. Fish like hell so I don't have to make up lies. Syncrowave 200MM211 & Spoolmate 100
Reply:Does the aluminum contaminate the gun and liner for steel? Can one obtain aluminum wire that is hardened and tempered  like 6061 T6?Hey~!! It's a hobby. It's not supposed to make sense~!!
Reply:I never had luck without a spool gun.  My memory is I had a teflon liner.  4043 is to soft to push, which  leaves you with 5356 which is stiffer.  I gave up and bought a spool gun. I tried it on a hobart handler and a Lincoln SP200.  Ended up first buying a spool gun for the Lincoln.  I also have a 30A for a trailblazer.
Reply:Before I got into TIG and hadn't welded aluminum yet I knew an auto shop that had their 140 MIG setup to weld aluminum. They had a broom stick taped to the gun lead so that only about the last two feet flexed. Never saw it work but they said it worked okay. I'm sure they must have only used it for thin stuff like intake piping or whatnot. Anyway if you are having trouble with the wire feeding you might try making as much of the sheath as straight as possible with a splint. I have never TIGed aluminum. Never had a project that was high volume enough to even consider it. I can definitely see where it makes sense though on a project where you need to run a ton of linear inches fast.Lincoln precision TIG 275Millermatic 140 MIG
Reply:Herehttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=37192is a thread about just this topic.PTFE liners, splints, etc.Seems it's do-able. There's even a guy who says he uses a steel liner -  new one that was never used on steel wire and he didn't report contamination.Hey~!! It's a hobby. It's not supposed to make sense~!!
Reply:Hmmmmm interesting thoughts here... Thanks for reading, guys [Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:In europe there are almost no spool guns at all. Everybody i know uses normal guns with 4-roll wire feed sistem (industrial machines not hobby) and teflon liner. That work great, but only for short mig guns. Pulse mig alu on high end synergetic machines makes you think why the hell did you ever bother with tig  . BTW great video lanse, contamination looks like a problem with argon to me. If you push the gun there should be shiny weld.Last edited by ravselj; 06-23-2013 at 05:12 PM.
Reply:Lanse, your video was a hoot! Loved it - too funny!Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:It works reasonably well if you do it right. I don't do enough aluminum MIG to justify the $$$ for a push-pull or spool gun, but I do have:>> A 10' gun with a Teflon liner.>> U-groove drive rolls made for aluminum wire.>> Tips made for aluminum wire, which have a larger ID than tips made for steel.Does the job within the limited range of the short gun, but if I MIGged Al every day or worked on large boats, I would definitely go for the push-pull gun.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:I did aluminum with my mm 175. Used. 035 wire and to avoid contact tip problems I used. 045 tips and had decent results for first time.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:It was years ago when I tried to push wire without a spool gun.  it was with a hobart 120 handler.  My memory is I had a teflon liner, but they had a feed roller kit that was rubber, like a tire, just for aluminum. I did not do well at all.  I have spool guns for my larger welders now, but I might just have to try it again after watching that video. Although the 120 is less of a machine than yours.     When I bought my last spool gun for a new trailblazer, I asked about the push/pull 350 MPA and the salesman told me they were for production shops and many times had problems scyncronizing the motors, which ended up with more problems than other methods.   Great video, as always!
Reply:the guys i talk to love the push pull on the 252 and 350 1 guy even bought a 2nd gun so he had 1 for steel and 1 for aluminumMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Originally Posted by yoshimitsuspeedBefore I got into TIG and hadn't welded aluminum yet I knew an auto shop that had their 140 MIG setup to weld aluminum. They had a broom stick taped to the gun lead so that only about the last two feet flexed. Never saw it work but they said it worked okay. I'm sure they must have only used it for thin stuff like intake piping or whatnot. Anyway if you are having trouble with the wire feeding you might try making as much of the sheath as straight as possible with a splint. I have never TIGed aluminum. Never had a project that was high volume enough to even consider it. I can definitely see where it makes sense though on a project where you need to run a ton of linear inches fast.
Reply:Originally Posted by ravseljIn europe there are almost no spool guns at all. Everybody i know uses normal guns with 4-roll wire feed sistem (industrial machines not hobby) and teflon liner. That work great, but only for short mig guns. Pulse mig alu on high end synergetic machines makes you think why the hell did you ever bother with tig  . BTW great video lanse, contamination looks like a problem with argon to me. If you push the gun there should be shiny weld.
Reply:in the first actual clip of welding I see a pretty good bend in the cable and the end of the torch, I suggest throwing the cable over your shoulder,  might make for softer bends and better feeding.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by ravseljIn europe there are almost no spool guns at all. Everybody i know uses normal guns with 4-roll wire feed sistem (industrial machines not hobby) and teflon liner. That work great, but only for short mig guns. Pulse mig alu on high end synergetic machines makes you think why the hell did you ever bother with tig  . BTW great video lanse, contamination looks like a problem with argon to me. If you push the gun there should be shiny weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawCan I ask what length guns these folks are using?  I am planning on making a dedicated aluminum gun for my 300avs suitcase feeder that is 4 roll feeder but not sure what lengths work well and what lengths problems start to appear..
Reply:yeah i am thinking 6 to 10 ft but if i can get some real world experiences from folks actually using them would help a lotTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250