Welding Positioner In Kit Form

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Here's a couple of pics of what will soon be my light duty welding positioner. Today's score was the ChinCom engine stand from the local Craig's List.To the left is the 40mm OD (3mm wall) axle, left over from my go kart racing days, which will be shortened as needed for the main shaft. It will spin in the pair of low friction axle bearings in the gold cassettes. The 9 5/8" face plate on the right will be bored to fit the axle and then brazed to the axle shaft. All of the holes in the faceplate are tapped so holding odd shaped items will be doable. It does need to be drilled and tapped to mount the 8" Cushman 3 jaw chuck above it.Rotation will be supplied by the 1/5HP Bodine DC motor under the direction of the Bodine motor controller ( I LOVE Ebay....new, the motor and controller list for over $1K, Ebay price,  under $100.00). Max motor shaft speed is 21 RPM, min speed is about as fast as the minute hand on a clock.The only bit of the kit yet to be rounded up is the drive parts, (I'm kicking myself for not having kept some of the go kart chain and sprockets!) but I'll find something.Rex
Reply:I like it!  You may want to gear it down a little more.  The fastest I have ever run mine is 4 rpm.  The slower the better when  you get to bigger or odd shaped parts.Just for a hint, I was welding 4" (?) pipe to a flange at 3 RPM @ 300 amps with metal core wire.  1" nipples or couplers about the same speed, but lower amps.This is what I did for a ground.  It didn't even get warm with the 300 amps.The surface the strap is on is connected directly to the table.It runs 0 to 5 RPMDavid  Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I was wondering about the ground myself. David, I like that idea, great thinking.Tim Beeker.
Reply:I confess, I stole the idea form the internet some place. 12" ground strap from NAPAI have no idea why that positioner didn't come with a ground, but this one works.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:This thing  has balls!  It will START from that position.  Piece is 5/8" X 7" x 60".  Weighs about 90 lbs.  I have to weld that coupler on it.  (many of em)My atlas is in the back ground.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Rode2rouen - That looks like a good start.You're going to try to build the table so it swings at least 90 degrees from horizontal to vertical right?Good Luck
Reply:I think this is gonna be nice to watch.  The machining is gonna be interesting.Gotta love Ebay.  If it wasn't for Ebay, I wouldn't own 1/4 the cutters I have.  I couldn't afford them otherwise."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepYou're going to try to build the table so it swings at least 90 degrees from horizontal to vertical right?
Reply:Originally Posted by rode2rouenSnipHey, David, when do we get to see the pics of your Heavyweight positioner clamped to the fork lift and you welding on a ladder?  SnipRex
Reply:I got a bit done today, the 40mm shaft has been cut to length ( 13.375" ) and squared in the lathe. In the first 2 pics you can get an idea of how the shaft and motor will be positioned when the end plates are made. The face plate will mount on the left end of the shaft, and the reduction gears (or maybe sprockets or maybe pulleys, depends what I can scrounge up) will mount on the right end. The ground strap will ride between the back end of the motor and the left bearing.Next operation was to bore out of the face plate to an interference fit on the shaft. Since the face plate is threaded to fit my Mighty Atlas 10 X 30 lathe, I screwed the project plate onto my Test Bolt and then screwed a smaller face plate against it. Add a couple of 3/8 bolts to hold the plates together, and we're ready to head for the lathe. With the face plate sandwich mounted on the Mighty Atlas, boring begins. Cutting cast iron is not one of my favorite things! Nasty, dusty stuff it is! After a few passes, though, the shaft just wants to go in the hub of the face plate.The weather is looking pretty decent for tomorrow and Sunday, so I'm thinkin' there ain't much shop work gettin' done!Rex
Reply:Outstanding work so far, thanks for posting the progress, unfortunately, you should have never done this, now I have another project to add to the list, I have always wanted one of these.  Time to also start scouring ebay for the necessary parts.  Could I talk you out of the model no. for the Bodine Motor Controller?
Reply:Busa, Any time you need your project list lengthened, drop me a PM and I'll fix you up! Here's pics of the data plates on the controller and the motor. You might want to spend some time on Bodine's web site, as it seems that any controller will not work with any motor.Rex Attached Images
Reply:rode2rouen,I may have just the sprokets and chain you need for the project.  I'll get an accounting of what I have tomorrow and let you know.DuaneMM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by rode2rouen......... min speed is about as fast as the minute hand on a clock.Rex
Reply:rode2roune--thanks, I will check the Bodine web site as I could quickly turn this job into a soup sandwich geting the wrong controller.  Here's your next project for your Tiger:
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettLOL Somewhere near 1 RPM ?Seriously looks goodBrett
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55I may have just the sprokets and chain you need for the project.  I'll get an accounting of what I have tomorrow and let you know.
Reply:Spin that Mighty Atlas lathe at 5 Rpm and see if you think you could keep up with it using dualshield.  Then figure how you would tig at that speed.  Slow is better.The bigger the piece the slower you need to go.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:you need a speed triple 1050 to go with that tiger ?got  a2006 with 5k on her. tuneboy, custom tail, upgraded front brakes, piperxross filterpazzo levers and seargent seat4500insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:Seems like surface inches/surface feet per minute would be a better language for these turn tables than rpm. Sure rpm is how you get there, but amount of weld bead laid down in a given time frame would be the constant whether you were moving in a straight line, zig-zag or in a cirlcle ??
Reply:Well I'll be!I had this same thought, of making a positioner out of an old engine stand, a few days ago too, I was on craigslist and someone was selling an engine stand, and thinking about how they turn gave me the idea!I came up with it after seeing, I think it was David R's post, on his positioner!Hmmm! Ken.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:I agree on the feet per minute of weld instead of RPM.SO 1" round stock has 3.14" of weld then some overlap, so lets go with 3 1/4" of weld.How long does it take to tig 3.25"?How long would it take with stick?  Just a guess from another test thing I did, I could burn a 3/16" 8018 @ 275 amps in a minute + a few seconds.  This left about a 10" ? weld.  SO, about 3.1/3" in 20 seconds.  3 Rpm. give or take.  Tig would take me 2 or 3 times that time.  1 or 1.5 Rpm, maybe 2 rpm.Bad example with the stick, but I just did it and its fresh in my mind.I don't think I have ever had either one of mine over 4 rpm.The engine stand is a cool idea.  Maybe a grease fitting on it?  Or even some brass bushings?David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:OK rode2rouen, here's what I've got.  They're three different operators salvaged from some of the 14 overhead doors in our buildings that got taken out during Ike.  If you think one of them will work PM your address and let me know which one.All small gears have 5/8" hex thru hole.  Chain is #41.  2nd set is internal/external gear setup.9 tooth x 40 tooth, 1-11/16" x 6-5/8" ODs11 tooth x 63 tooth, 2-1/8" x 11-1/2 ODs9 tooth x 72 tooth, 1-11/16" x 11-3/4" ODs.  Spacer is separate from the gear.DuaneMM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Looking great!My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:This is gonna be good!
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Duaneb55 posted some unique drives.I'll just mention that I played with a drive from a wheel-chair lift, and one from a barbecue rotisserie, before I swept the bench and went with a reduction gear box to turn a rotator.IMO - a rotator does need to turn s l o o o w!Very interesting build Rode2rouen. Thanks for posting it.Good LuckOriginally Posted by David R3 Rpm. give or take.  Tig would take me 2 or 3 times that time.  1 or 1.5 Rpm, maybe 2 rpm.I don't think I have ever had either one of mine over 4 rpm.David
Reply:I did this at three Minutes Per Revolution.  Yes it took 3 minutes to go around this 2" piece of pipe using 140 amps TIG.And this one at 3 RPM (300 amps metal core)Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI did this at three Minutes Per Revolution. . .
Reply:Originally Posted by SandySeems like surface inches/surface feet per minute would be a better language for these turn tables than rpm.
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55OK rode2rouen, here's what I've got.  They're three different operators salvaged from some of the 14 overhead doors in our buildings that got taken out during Ike.  If you think one of them will work PM your address and let me know which one.Duane
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI did this at three Minutes Per Revolution.  Yes it took 3 minutes to go around this 2" piece of pipe using 140 amps TIG.And this one at 3 RPM (300 amps metal core)
Reply:Originally Posted by rode2rouenDuane, thanx for the offer. It looks like my drive needs have been covered.I called to wish my brother "Happy Birthday" (he's hit the Double Nickel!), and he mentioned that he is converting his race kart to a smaller (lighter) chain size. All of his #35 stuff is headed my way.After digesting the Feet Per Minute concept, this project is taking some new thinking!Rex
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55OK.  FYI, they'll be going to someone else now that you don't need/want them.Duane
Reply:In automated or mechanized welding it is useful to think of welding speed in terms of inches per minute on the surface of the part (ipm).  Whether the joint is along a straight run of plate, or around the circumference of a cylinder, you can think of speed in terms of ipm.  TIG is commonly done at 3 to 6 ipm, and spray or pulsed spray MIG may be done at 20 to 30 ipm.  See this older thread.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ighlight=speed
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserIn automated or mechanized welding it is useful to think of welding speed in terms of inches per minute on the surface of the part (ipm).  Whether the joint is along a straight run of plate, or around the circumference of a cylinder, you can think of speed in terms of ipm.  TIG is commonly done at 3 to 6 ipm, and spray or pulsed spray MIG may be done at 20 to 30 ipm.
Reply:You are welding to some real crap there.  It makes your welds look bad.    The half on the carbon steel shaft looks pretty good.  Don't worry, you will have plenty of work for it"Build it and they will come"  Or in my case " Buy it and they will come"  David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Since my last post, I was sulking for a day or so after David R made fun of my raggedy a$$ cast iron face plate. Having gotten over that, I broke the drawbar cap nut threads off the end of the spindle of my mill and bought a 7" X 12" bandsaw that needed a bit of TLC. The positioner project has been on hold due to the mill being down. This past weekend I got the mill back in action and got the end plates done for the positioner.The first pic is the drive end plate after finishing the cut out for the bearing boss of the Bodine motor. With the cut out and the mounting bolt holes slotted, there will be a bit over 1/2" of adjustability for the drive chain. The large round hole to the right is for the shaft bearing.I had both end plates stacked in the vise to do the machining for the bearing mounts.The next pics are of the positioner components assembled on the bench to make sure everything fit together as planned. So far, so good!To be continued.Rex
Reply:rode2rouen--nice work, thanks for posting the progress, keep up the good work.
Reply:The positioner is finally functional! There are a few small detail items to finish today (ground strap mounting, control box wiring securing), but the concept has proven out.This is the complete unit. I had been scratching my head trying to figure out where the control box was going to go, when I stumbled across the Ram laptop mount I had bought for my truck. Just the right combination of bits to handle the job!This pic shows the rotation speeds available with the controller.Don't try this at home!!! I am a semi-professional!I figure that if the positioner can spin my 200+ lb a$$, it's ready to work!Rex
Reply:That is a nice professional job.  I have done the same thing with my positioner.  I think you got the speed thing just right.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Awesome build rode2rouen.On a side note, I like the fact you have your wire brushes hanging on the bench toolboard are labeled for the material they are to be used on in post #37 to prevent material contamination.  If I'm not mistaken it looks as if they hang in front of the packages of tungsten rods you use for those same materials as well.  Nice touch.Please keep us posted on the finishing details.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Hey, that came out real nice.
Reply:Thanx for the comments, guys!Yeah, Duane, I have slowly advanced to the point where I no longer consider tungstens to be consumables. Keeping things organized helps keep me from doin' stoopid stuff!I realized that I have no provision for a "steady rest" on the positioner. I don't know what I was thinkin', as I have a bunch of stuff handy at the welding table. Since I passed into Geezerdom, it helps to have something to rest on when using the TIG torch or tungstens become consumables again. Oh well, I'll figure something out.Here's a pic of the ground strap arrangement.Rex
Reply:rode2rouenVery nice job!Now how about a quick summery of parts used and cost, to give others an idea "like me" of what they are looking at, if they decide to make one too!Thanks!Ken.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Ken, here's a list of stuff I bought for the positioner project...everything else was layin' around the shop. Check out the pics in the original post.ChinCom used engine stand..............$40 on local Craig's ListBodine DC motor..............................$30 w/ship from EbayBodine motor control.........................$59 w/ship from EbayCushman 8" 3 jaw chuck...................$56 w/ship from Ebay*Chain & sprocket.............................$34 w/ship from McMaster/Carr *my ace brother ended up sendin' me a badly worn chain, and the smallest sprocket in his pile of stuff was too big.Rex
Reply:Thanks Rex!Hell, for that much, I am going to get started on collecting the stuff up to build one if you don't mind my using your design!I could really use one, especially for the tractor rockshafts I build, it would be nice to weld it all around without stopping to turn it or turn over the part to get at the other side.Back when you started this thread, a short time before it, I had the thought of somehow using an engine stand to make one, but wasn't sure of how to go about it, your post came as a welcome sight, knowing that I was on the right track!Thanks again!Ken.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:You mentioned needing to add a rest, I know this is a crude drawing but, how about something like this?Attached to the main positioner post, with a screw adjuster to allow you to raise and lower it to a comfortable height.Add some holes to mount a small arm to it that you can attach your gun or torch to, and you would have an automatic setup that you wouldn't even need to hold onto the gun or torch, just hit the trigger. Attached Images#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Man I wish I could Cad!#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:The "beta" steady rest got finished today........after my first couple of test welds, I may be doin' some rethinkin' on the rest. More practice time needed.Ken, I'm definitely thinkin' about mounts for the TIG torch as well as the MIG gun.Here's a couple shots of the steady as it is now. Lots of adjustability.Rex
Reply:Very nice, went to an engineering fair today and picked up a 12v wheelchair motor with a wormdrive gearbox with a max speed of 48rpm, high I know but that will be sorted.Food for thought