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And so it goes.................... May not apply to all, but it's MY EXPERIENCE.Here's the deal..........I had a lot on my plate. Flatbed rebuild on the 1 ton, some storage stuff needed building, and other stuff. And on top of it all, twas time for the annual Bash (The Slaggers Ball). So I had to hire someone to build some fence.Out of work pipeliner (fancy truck 'n all) needed some work. "Yeah, I build fence"STILL PAYING FOR THIS STINKIN' DISASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!I WILL POST PICS TOMORROW, OR IN A DAY OR SO, SHOWING THE WORK (Yeah, the dood used that word) that was done.Now don't get me wrong........there's 2 (two) pipeliner doods that buy where I buy that I actually like. No bragging, no swagger, no BS. Cool guys. AND WORKERS!!Tired of hearing the doods brag about their "truck time" when everyone else is working.Some of y'all might remember the old thread about the fencing azzhole from Hell. Well it's coming home to roost. Having major structural problems, including a gate that fell off this evening.Makes ya wonder about the integrity of the new cross country pipelines they're laying now. I'M NOT CRAPPING ON ALL PIPELINERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Just the ones who can only weld in circles, after someone preps the steel, and those who don't know crap about any type of fabrication, and believe that a pretty bead means good work by itself. Yeah, there's some out thereI don' t pretend to know crap about pipe, please don't pretend to know anything about fabrication/building/structural etc. (including a brain to know about making something) if you don't. Stick to welding circles.This guy, and his partner, might be one of a kind......but they ruined it for the rest of themPICS IN A FEW DAYS, OR SOONER"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:My guess is this will start a little pre-heat I can relate to what you went through--I've seen good welders do a crappy job on purpose, they usually find what they think is a better job right after they found the one you gave them. A poor way to do business. I can't what to see the pictures.
Reply:Come on farmersamm don't hold back, tell us what you really think!!Lincoln SA-200 code 4816Lincoln Power Mig 180cHobart Hefty CC/CV suitcase wire feederKoike Aronson IK-12 Beetle track burner
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Posting this over on AWS would most likely start an all out WAR!
Reply:I remember that thread! go figure the things that will come to mind! Why can't it be something important that will make my life easier or better or richer! NOPE. I have to remember an old thread, an old flame, an old joke, etc. anyway. Samm, didn't you learn from the last time? maybe young lance will come and weld it up for you now that he is portable. it would be goo work for him to get some hood time in on something that will last a long time. Heck he can even video tape it if you are paying by the foot. I learned don't pay by the hour, pay by the job. Some welders not to be mentioned work slower when it by the hour.
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Not to mention Rig Welder.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rock knockerRig welder is completely broken. All it is is spam, really needs to be shut down
Reply:I understand where your coming from. But being a pipeliner myself I take offense from such a general statement about lazyness and truck time. So I am going to further open this can of worms. It has been my experience that the harder working guys are the ones that have to live from there own rep notThe unions rep...... If ya get my drift then good. Sorry about your experience. Lots of pipeliners hold them selves above others. It is true that some can't fabricate nothing. There are others who can build anything. A gate falling off says doesn't give a damn. A good weld on pipe or a gate is the same principal. So in short if anyone thinks all pipeliners can't fabricate or work hard ill take that challenge.
Reply:I'm not crapping on all pipeliners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:To put people of any profession in a box as one, because of the actions of one, or a few, is just wrong. It exposes ignorance in the person making the accusation.Mastering others is strength, mastering yourself is true power.
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55I know what you mean. Basically two spammers posting 99% (literally) of all posts. I just check in about once a week to see if there are any new legitimate posts in the "Machines, tools, etc." section and to see what new photos have been posted up in the Gallery.
Reply:It seems that instead of spending time whining around on the internet, you should be building fence. Your post is of no value to any of the readers here.
Reply:Originally Posted by darnellIt seems that instead of spending time whining around on the internet, you should be building fence. Your post is of no value to any of the readers here.
Reply:Originally Posted by darnellIt seems that instead of spending time whining around on the internet, you should be building fence. Your post is of no value to any of the readers here.
Reply:Originally Posted by darnellIt seems that instead of spending time whining around on the internet, you should be building fence. Your post is of no value to any of the readers here.
Reply:Sensitive crowd. BTW what exactly is a "jack hole".
Reply:Originally Posted by darnellSensitive crowd. BTW what exactly is a "jack hole".
Reply:There are so many different skill sets to weldors and metal work that we can't expect any one to be able to do every thing. There are things to know about building fences just like there is about pipe line welding and just because the fence is made out of pipe don't mean a pipe liner can build it right. Hire a fence builder next time to build fence. If you have a pipe line to build is when you hire pipe liners. You damn sure wouldn't want a fence builder to do that.
Reply:I would think that pipe welder should be able to weld fence
Reply:A pipeline welder should be able to weld a fence hence the term welder in the title. If anything someone over qualified should make a hell of a fence. Its not like asking a 10$ an hour production welder to make xray quality welds on a pipeline. I am sure samms comments were made to stir the pot as much as discredit any group of peopleMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:It's ok, I think most engineers are, well, "Special". I want to see pictures!(Home)Miller Maxstar 152 (sold)MM211/spool gunLincoln AC 225C(Work)Dynasty 350Powcon 300STLincoln SP-175TWeldlodgic AWS150sWeldlodgic AWS300Custom Resistance seam weldersCambridge Vacuum EB weldersI smell something burning.
Reply:That is the way it is today few have pride in their work, makes the ones that do stand out. Clowns that do these half *** jobs are not long for the trade, they will be sorted out . You did say they were slow and looking.... now we know why.Magazines have issues, everything else has problems
Reply:Sorry about your situation. If these guys were ''real pipeliners'' I would think they would not be out of a job. Sounds like they only have a fancy truck rig and want to be pipeliners. Maybe all these pipeliners did was weld brackets for a pipeline.
Reply:Just like Sam to post something and not give any pertinent information just to get people riled up. lol. as much as I love his threads and the work he shares. He's got some great one off pieces of equipment that are simply genius. He's getting a bit predictable in the way he posts. Waiting for pics sam.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55I know what you mean. Basically two spammers posting 99% (literally) of all posts. I just check in about once a week to see if there are any new legitimate posts in the "Machines, tools, etc." section and to see what new photos have been posted up in the Gallery.Whelp... said my piece over there for now... Carry On...-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:well, maybe it's because I've had a few to drink...but I just couldn't walk away from this... I want to say this first Samm, I think you are a good guy. I really enjoy your posts, and really do think you're one of the "good guys". BUT, even though I havn't done any "pipeline" work in several years, I think you're making a VERY broad statement here that I take exception to. If I never pipeline again (I do intend to though), I consider myself a pipeliner. I think I've earned the title. Grew up doing it (literally) and really miss it. I've still got my pipeline equipment (sidebooms, boring machines, beveling machines, lineup clamps, welding machines, trencher, trackhoes, backhoe, dozers...) although my next pipeline experience will probably be welding for someone else (chasing the money for a while). I can weld. I don't claim to be the best, but I feel I'm good enough... I can weld pipe. I can weld equipment back together. I can weld trailers back together. I'm not bragging, it's just that I know my abilities. MOST of the "pipeliners" that have worked with or for me are capable. But this is where I think the problem is.. Someone claiming to be a pipeline welder did some work for you, did a ****ty job, and left you with a bad vibe towards pipeliners. I understand your hard feelings here. You paid good money for a less than desirable result. But that doesn't mean ALL pipeliners are liars and no good. I'd be willing to bet that if Slowhand or even myself had done the work for you that you would be more than pleased (I'm not trying to say that I'm near the welder that Slowhand is, but again I'm confident in my abilities.) Instead, someone POSING as a pipeline welder did the work, and it fell apart... If a REAL pipeline welder did the work, the post would rot off before a weld failed.. Having said that, I will say that I've had welders that couldn't fabricate to save their life.. I was running a job when I was 18 that we had 3 rig welders on. I was also running the trackhoe. My dad got mad when he got to the job after a business meeting that I wasn't digging. Instead I was in the process of cutting a 24" 45 degree fitting down for a tie-in. The reason I was doing that, is out of the 3 "experienced" welders we had on the job, none of them knew how to figure the angle needed or cut the fitting down for the tie-in... They could all weld, but they weren't tie-in hands.. shortly after that, we were messing around one day, and I actually tested for the gas company we were worked for. Just to see if I could do it. Dad never found out about it, because he wanted me to rig out and weld, but at that time I'd rather sit on my nice dry trackhoe than lay in the mud and weld.And, I don't LIE. I don't like people to lie to me, and I don't lie to people. Pretty simple concept.. I might not tell you what you want to hear, but it'll be the honest truth. It's really amazing how many people will get mad at you for telling the truth. It's almost like they'd rather hear a lie. The world is really screwed up..Anyway, I probably shoulda just walked away from this.. I don't mean any disrepect to you Samm, In fact, I think you're probably my kind of people.. BUT, this was just something that I feel strongly about and felt like I had to voice my opinion on. I'm not a confrontational type person really, but my dad was a pipeliner from 1946 until he took his last breath in 1992, and he was anything but a liar. And being a pipeliner myself literally from birth, I just couldn't keep my mouth (or I guess fingers in this case) quiet..Again, I have no Ill feelings toward you Samm, you obviously got screwed in this deal, but I don't think the ******* that screwed you is a "PIPELINER".-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:This thread is funny. I like how all these fence builders and fabricators think pipelining is weldi g in circles and nothing else. That's a lot of it but there is lots of fabbing for gas companies at meter stations ,compressor stations and gathering systems. It's all out of pipe but it has to bolt up at the end of the day. I get tired of people thinking its just welding a circle. Hell most fence builders or farm welders wouldn't think of starting up there little bobcat and lightin up on a loaded line or a hot tap let alone a tie in spewing fire and gas out if it while your welding it. Most of our welds are inspected to death. So I have to agree you got screwed by a wanna be pipeliner in a fancy truck. If a hand can weld it doesn't matter if its plate or pipe or square tubing. There are lots of hacks and jack leg welders out there in every aspect of the trade .I hope your project turns out. I enjoy your posts Sam. I agree your a good guy. Just get tired of the circle comments. There is a reason pipeliners get what they do for pay.Last edited by specopswelder; 07-10-2013 at 07:49 AM.
Reply:To be truthful I have to really apologize I guess. Shouldn't paint with such a broad brush.Take a look at these, and you'll see why I'm so upset about this.I told these guys, the lead man in particular (his name was on the contract, and he brought another guy in because he was running so behind on the job) that I wanted the hinges through-and-through. The entire pin should run completely through the corner post, not just welded on one side. This is the result.One day into the job the dood comes to me saying he underbid it, and needed a Bobcat with an auger to do the corner posts. Said he'd split the rental with me. I could understand that, although I wondered why he didn't realize he needed one in the first place. So we got the digging problem solved.I specified full FULL concrete in all holes. And I got receipts for a little over 3 full pallets of Redi Mix. SO MY QUESTION IS..............WHERE DID ALL THAT CONCRETE GO????????????? I bought it, brought it in, and unloaded it, SO I KNOW I'M NOT CRAZYIT SURE WASN'T POURED IN THE HOLESThis entire corner has come out, and the wire is hanging slack all down the line.After seeing the posts starting to pull within a week or so of completion, I looked at all the other posts. All were cheated on.................only about 6" of concrete, enough to hide the fact that the post holes were simply backfilled with dirtDo I have myself to blame, not sure. I could have looked over the dood's shoulder the whole time he worked. I shouldn't have to do that, it's the reason you hire someone........you have other stuff that needs doing.So, as an individual (not the member of a group), this dood was/is a lousy workman, a liar, and a thief. Do any good to go after the guy???? What's the point, he's probably judgement proof.Moral of the story.....despite all that you have going, you need to make the time to do stuff yourself because there's very few people on the planet that do a good job."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I think it's been about maybe 4yrs since the job was done, and now I'm looking at a complete rebuild/reinforcement of all the corner posts. You can bet your bottom dollar this time it'll be done right"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:
Reply:Now I'm definitely not a pipe guy But GEE WHIZ, I can usually put something up that actually worksThese are down 3+ feet (drought made it impossible to really dig to China), and the holes are flared at the bottom to provide uplift resistance. AND TOTALLY CONCRETED About 5 sacks per hole.I can't weld pipe for crap. I usually have to do it in 3 stages. Two uphill beads one either side, and close it off with the third overhead pass underneath. Probably be easier with 5p, but I'm used to 7018.Ain't pretty, but it works. AND IT HOLDS TOGETHER This particular area is under high pressure from a heavy gate, and constant pressure from the cattle trying to get to the hay inside the enclosure.Got a bunch to build sometime in the future. Will probably hire some kids from town to hand dig the corners, and drive the line posts. I'd rather spend the money on wages for somebody that needs work than rental on a machine. Not much more money, and people have to eat."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:More proof that ya hafta supervise the contractor!- MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I do repairs for a dirt/construction contractor, and have had to re-do several "repairs" done by one of his flunkies that was "boilermaker, just in between jobs." My take on this, after 16 yrs on the same job, is there is ALWAYS 5% to10% of the workers on any site that you wonder how they got their job and why haven't they been fired yet. Sounds like you found that guy! On a side note, I do not remember where you are located at, and I would never tell a man how to build his own fence, but wanted to pass my experience on to you. Here in southwest Mo, we have temp swings from -10 in the winter to 105 in the summer. If I fill a post hole full of concrete, it will frost heave and jack itself out of the ground over the years. I dig my holes 3-1/2 to 4 feet deep, and fill up to 10" or so from ground level and then tamp dirt back in. This has worked well for me. Again, not telling you how to do it!
Reply:Originally Posted by rancher76Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I do repairs for a dirt/construction contractor, and have had to re-do several "repairs" done by one of his flunkies that was "boilermaker, just in between jobs." My take on this, after 16 yrs on the same job, is there is ALWAYS 5% to10% of the workers on any site that you wonder how they got their job and why haven't they been fired yet. Sounds like you found that guy! On a side note, I do not remember where you are located at, and I would never tell a man how to build his own fence, but wanted to pass my experience on to you. Here in southwest Mo, we have temp swings from -10 in the winter to 105 in the summer. If I fill a post hole full of concrete, it will frost heave and jack itself out of the ground over the years. I dig my holes 3-1/2 to 4 feet deep, and fill up to 10" or so from ground level and then tamp dirt back in. This has worked well for me. Again, not telling you how to do it!
Reply:Originally Posted by handtpipelineWhelp... said my piece over there for now... Carry On...
Reply:Originally Posted by handtpipelinehey now, I post there every now and then. Especially if I drink a little much and the spammers (LOWBOINK or whatever the hell his name is) just happens to piss me off a bit too much... In fact, I've had a few shots of Crown, and think I'll head over there and tell give my opinon on spammers again...lol
Reply:Just proves you don't need common sense to be a welder. Work in a production welding shop and you'll meet plenty who can lay a bead but if there's a problem, or they have to build something, they are completely at a lost and oblivious. Of course they are only in it for a paycheck and you'd never find them on a site like this. Originally Posted by farmersammGot a bunch to build sometime in the future. Will probably hire some kids from town to hand dig the corners, and drive the line posts. I'd rather spend the money on wages for somebody that needs work than rental on a machine. Not much more money, and people have to eat.
Reply:In the NW the only time you don't fill the whole hole is if it's a temporary fence and will be removed within a year. otherwise it's fill the whole thing set at a minimum of 18" (not a huge frost zone on this side of the state) into the ground. I'd definately be wondering where 3 pallets of concrete went if you've got only half a bag of concrete at the top of each "hole" from the pictures you could barely call it that.Last edited by ThorsHammer; 07-10-2013 at 03:07 PM.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by handtpipelinewell, maybe it's because I've had a few to drink...but I just couldn't walk away from this... I want to say this first Samm, I think you are a good guy. I really enjoy your posts, and really do think you're one of the "good guys". BUT, even though I havn't done any "pipeline" work in several years, I think you're making a VERY broad statement here that I take exception to. If I never pipeline again (I do intend to though), I consider myself a pipeliner. I think I've earned the title. Grew up doing it (literally) and really miss it. I've still got my pipeline equipment (sidebooms, boring machines, beveling machines, lineup clamps, welding machines, trencher, trackhoes, backhoe, dozers...) although my next pipeline experience will probably be welding for someone else (chasing the money for a while). I can weld. I don't claim to be the best, but I feel I'm good enough... I can weld pipe. I can weld equipment back together. I can weld trailers back together. I'm not bragging, it's just that I know my abilities. MOST of the "pipeliners" that have worked with or for me are capable. But this is where I think the problem is.. Someone claiming to be a pipeline welder did some work for you, did a ****ty job, and left you with a bad vibe towards pipeliners. I understand your hard feelings here. You paid good money for a less than desirable result. But that doesn't mean ALL pipeliners are liars and no good. I'd be willing to bet that if Slowhand or even myself had done the work for you that you would be more than pleased (I'm not trying to say that I'm near the welder that Slowhand is, but again I'm confident in my abilities.) Instead, someone POSING as a pipeline welder did the work, and it fell apart... If a REAL pipeline welder did the work, the post would rot off before a weld failed.. Having said that, I will say that I've had welders that couldn't fabricate to save their life.. I was running a job when I was 18 that we had 3 rig welders on. I was also running the trackhoe. My dad got mad when he got to the job after a business meeting that I wasn't digging. Instead I was in the process of cutting a 24" 45 degree fitting down for a tie-in. The reason I was doing that, is out of the 3 "experienced" welders we had on the job, none of them knew how to figure the angle needed or cut the fitting down for the tie-in... They could all weld, but they weren't tie-in hands.. shortly after that, we were messing around one day, and I actually tested for the gas company we were worked for. Just to see if I could do it. Dad never found out about it, because he wanted me to rig out and weld, but at that time I'd rather sit on my nice dry trackhoe than lay in the mud and weld.And, I don't LIE. I don't like people to lie to me, and I don't lie to people. Pretty simple concept.. I might not tell you what you want to hear, but it'll be the honest truth. It's really amazing how many people will get mad at you for telling the truth. It's almost like they'd rather hear a lie. The world is really screwed up..Anyway, I probably shoulda just walked away from this.. I don't mean any disrepect to you Samm, In fact, I think you're probably my kind of people.. BUT, this was just something that I feel strongly about and felt like I had to voice my opinion on. I'm not a confrontational type person really, but my dad was a pipeliner from 1946 until he took his last breath in 1992, and he was anything but a liar. And being a pipeliner myself literally from birth, I just couldn't keep my mouth (or I guess fingers in this case) quiet..Again, I have no Ill feelings toward you Samm, you obviously got screwed in this deal, but I don't think the ******* that screwed you is a "PIPELINER".
Reply:Originally Posted by Rock knockerIs it going to be all better now?
Reply:Too bad your plate was full, cause i know that you know "If you want something done right, do it yourself."
Reply:Wow Samm.. Did they even use a full bag per post? Whoever did that should be crammed down a posthole head first. I see now where your anger came from. I don't like seeing a hard working man get screwed out of his hard earned money like that. I don't know what you paid for that work, but i'm sure it wasn't cheap. And you nowhere near got your moneys worth. A man shouldn't have to stand looking over someones shoulder to get a quality job done, if you have to do that you might as well just do it yourself.. Especially when it's someone that should be overly qualified to perform the task at hand.I do want to apologize if I came across as a little harsh, especially after seeing the lack of craftmanship in your project. I've been working out of town for 7 months, have a lot on my mind, and had a little too much Crown to drink... I kinda took it personally, and I shouldn't have.I would suggest, and this is just my opinion... try some 5P+ or HYP (7010) downhill on pipe. If I was near you I'd give you a handful to try. If you have problems with magnetized pipe, you can run 6011 on AC and it helps. Although I personally hate 6011.. I don't see any problems with your 7018 you run uphill, but if you have a lot of this to do, the downhill will speed it up for you. Plus slag removal between passes is a breeze with a wire wheel.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:now you know why every single joint has to be xray'd on a pipelineLocal 597
Reply:"One day into the job the dood comes to me saying he underbid it, and needed a Bobcat with an auger to do the corner posts. Said he'd split the rental with me. I could understand that, although I wondered why he didn't realize he needed one in the first place."Should have sent him down the road right then and there.Beck's Welding and Fabrication, Inc.-Misc. Metals Fabrication & Installation-
Reply:Originally Posted by citizen smithnow you know why every single joint has to be xray'd on a pipeline
Reply:Yeah, I guess there's the reason he's out of work and should probably continue to be. Sorry this was such a cluster phuk Sam. Did you pay him all up front or just didn't check the work before paying him on completion. If he's still around, cut him into chunks and add the pieces to the post holes. Post hole filler is probably within his skill set. I don't know how you remained calm enough not to go after him, but good for you, I guess.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:About the gate falling off, etc.... any chance you could be more specific about what happened? Like, wrong kind of rod, not enough current.....?-RuarkLincoln 3200HDHobart Stickmate LX235TWECO Fabricator 211i
Reply:Wow just WOW!!! I personally would call the guy back but dont' tell him why, just say you want a quote on something. Then show him the areas he worked on and ask him about it. Ask him why and where did all of your materials go. Tell him you want your money back and go from there. Of course this is just my opinion but I'm sorry that you had to deal with that. Good luck.---No good deed goes unpunished---
Reply:Originally Posted by RuarkAbout the gate falling off, etc.... any chance you could be more specific about what happened? Like, wrong kind of rod, not enough current.....? |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:44:58