TIG Aluminum boxes - trash plasma cuts?

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Got a small job in the shop - coworker at my other job tried to weld this up and found out he could not.Most was precut with a plasma - not all perfect, but close enough to fill.Question - why did his plasma cuts float so much trash into the puddle?  Diamond plate - all 3/16"Angle iron - 1/4"Airco 300 set to 230 amps, used the pedal but full amps a lot of the time.2% thoriated 20cfh measured at the torchwp-26 air cooled (that roasted me every 10" of weld!)I tacked up to dimensions needed and you can see - a lot of fill required.Single rod filled 9 inches - but torch was smoking my glove by then anywaySimple box - supposed to be for a wrecker to store stuffNot really pleasing to the eye, but it's a box... couple more pics...Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 10-14-2013 at 10:37 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:And pics of the shelf - don't know what it does.3/16" diamond on 1/4" angle.cell pic did not come out goodThat's it - not perfect but "good enough for the gals I run with..." Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I forgot one question.I was using a #7 gas lens and the end snapped off while welding. (pic below)I replaced with another brand new one - 4" weld later the end snapped off and fell in the puddle like the last one.I switched to a #8 regular lens setup and did the job with that.Anyone know what happened with the gas lens setup?Dave J.Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 10-14-2013 at 10:38 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:If you were using a gas lens without the proper insulating ring, the end of the cup will have pressure on it from the end of the gas lens. When it gets hot the cup snaps off. The insulating ring for a gas lens is larger and allows a little more room between the end of the cup and lens. Had same thing happen to me.Bill
Reply:Looking good Dave! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Might have had better fit up if the diamond tread had been put on the outside. First pic looks like it is holding it apart some. Why is it made with the tread to the inside?
Reply:Your WP-26 is only good to 150amps. You wouldn't need so much amperage if you had the right torch. 160 - 180amps is about right. Same for the cups breaking is just too hot. I'd recomend a water cooled setup if you are going to be welding alot of 1/4" Al, or at least a heavier duty air cooled. I did the same thing when I started doing alot of 1/4. Had the whole torch head fall off of the body. I also switched to ceriated tungstun which will take more amps with a smaller diameter electrode. Also see the Tig finger, how do you like that?"ALL DAMAGE, NO CONTROL"
Reply:Originally Posted by Bill C2If you were using a gas lens without the proper insulating ring, the end of the cup will have pressure on it from the end of the gas lens. When it gets hot the cup snaps off. The insulating ring for a gas lens is larger and allows a little more room between the end of the cup and lens. Had same thing happen to me.Bill
Reply:Originally Posted by nogoaYour WP-26 is only good to 150amps. You wouldn't need so much amperage if you had the right torch. 160 - 180amps is about right. Same for the cups breaking is just too hot. I'd recomend a water cooled setup if you are going to be welding alot of 1/4" Al, or at least a heavier duty air cooled. I did the same thing when I started doing alot of 1/4. Had the whole torch head fall off of the body. I also switched to ceriated tungstun which will take more amps with a smaller diameter electrode. Also see the Tig finger, how do you like that?
Reply:the junk floating up is the nature of the plasma cutting the AL and contaminating the material on each side with oxidation beyond the surface of the cut edge. I like to use a carbide blade if I am going to weld AL.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:Originally Posted by turkthe junk floating up is the nature of the plasma cutting the AL and contaminating the material on each side with oxidation beyond the surface of the cut edge. I like to use a carbide blade if I am going to weld AL.
Reply:I use my chop saw and wormdrive saws for all my AL cutting.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:Originally Posted by turkI use my chop saw and wormdrive saws for all my AL cutting.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhire+1. I'd add a router to turks list.I cut aluminum with my plasma but I prefer a cut edge over a plasma cut edge which can have too much aluminum oxide. That said, if the plasma cut is done fast and clean it's not bad. Too slow and it will be slag filled mess. When the diamond plate was cut was it done bumps up or down? I'd try cutting it bumps down so the torch height control doesn't cause wander and may produce a cleaner edge. Aluminum has to be cut really fast. Diamond plate wouldn't have been my first choice of materials.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveFrom the direction of the dross, I'd say he cut bumps down.
Reply:The 'raw' plasma-cut edge is loaded with aluminum oxides.  The edge needs to be 'machined' before welding, try a milling cutter, carbide burr in a die grinder, carbide cutter in a router, carbide saw blade (circular saw), bandsaw, etc, etc, etc.  Or dress the edge with a file or use one of the 'special' aluminum flap- disks.Also, with that gap in the original fit-up, you were pulling in 'crud' from not only the front surface and the two cut edges, but also the back surface.  Lots of 'crud' sources (ugh!).picky note:  Some of your 'dips' look concave (crater-like).  Add more filler to get an even to slightly convex dip profile (aluminum does not like craters or concave weld beads, look up "crater cracking".)  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Would using nitrogen with the plasma cutter instead of shop air have kept the cuts clean?GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by nogoaYour WP-26 is only good to 150amps. You wouldn't need so much amperage if you had the right torch. 160 - 180amps is about right. Same for the cups breaking is just too hot. I'd recomend a water cooled setup if you are going to be welding alot of 1/4" Al, or at least a heavier duty air cooled. I did the same thing when I started doing alot of 1/4. Had the whole torch head fall off of the body. I also switched to ceriated tungstun which will take more amps with a smaller diameter electrode. Also see the Tig finger, how do you like that?
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireYou won't win any speed contests but for radiused corners and inside cutouts it's great. Make yourself a guide or template and keep it tight. On 1/8" I use a trim router with a 1/4" downward spiral carbide cutter. I have a circle cutting jig for the trim router which allows me to cut 3' circles. I also have a 1/2" router but I haven't tooled it up as well as my trim router. It has more HP and is heavier making it nicer to run but I acquired it after outgrowing the trim router.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleNo the 26 torch is rated at 100% at 200amps. 17 is rated at 100% at 150amps.Even at the rated amperage the torch will get too hot to hold, but the torch can handle it all day long. You can go above that amperage rating, but the duty cycle will drop quickly. At 230 amps i don't see that being a problem on a 26 series torch.
Reply:I've used my 9 or 17 (forgot which) until I needed 2 gloves to hold it. They hold up really well Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleI've used my 9 or 17 (forgot which) until I needed 2 gloves to hold it. They hold up really well
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelWould using nitrogen with the plasma cutter instead of shop air have kept the cuts clean?
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelWould using nitrogen with the plasma cutter instead of shop air have kept the cuts clean?