Would You Buy Miller Dialarc 250 for $500?

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I found a 30 year old Miller Dialarc 250 that the owner wants $500 firm. His grand father bought the welder new and passed it on to him who already has a mig welder. He claims the welder is in excellent condition and it comes only with 25' leads. The pictures he sent over looks like it is in real good condition. Is this welder worth $500 or should I keep looking for a better deal? I decided on either a Lincoln Idealarc 250 or Miller Dialarc 250 based on what many of you recommended in my previous posts.
Reply:I certainly have no professional advice or experience with one but I bought a DialArc 250 AC/DC last year for $450 and I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever.  Supposedly one of the best small industrial welding machines out there.  Mine is actually the Airco licensed version called the Bumblebee but is the exact same machine and made in 1980.Mine looked great too but it did have a burned heat controller rheostat. That was a cheap and easy fix.I have since added Tig capabilities and a Miller HF251D-1 High Frequency unit and do mostly tig with this machine.I guess the question is what do you intend to use the welder for primarily?Its not the ideal tig setup but was a cheap and easy way for me to learn the basics while still having a very capable stick machine.As a stick machine it will be more than you will likely ever need.  If it were to be the DialArc 250 HF model then it is tig ready and would definitely be a great buy.Last edited by MWalden; 07-18-2013 at 02:44 AM.
Reply:They can be found cheaper, but if it's an exceptionally clean machine, it's probably worth it.  If its an HF it's DEFINITLEY worth it.He can be as FIRM as he likes.  A machines only worth what someone will pay for it, so he will soften with time.  If its a non HF, I'd try to grab it for $350-400.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Mine is 39 years old and I gave $300. for it a few years ago."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:It's in the range of prices I've seen.Mine was $225 with no leads.  1979 model.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Look for school auctions, they often liquidate the industrial arts classes (often not enough students, or new equipment) A friend of mine picked up a Bumblebee for $70 at one and another guy I new just walked away with a whole trailer full of the equivalent Lincoln machines that he paid $26/ea for, probably 10-12 machines, I missed the auction by an hour this week.
Reply:I really appreciate the feedback I'm getting at this forum.   Your comments definitely helps.   If I get this welder it will only be used as a stick welder and from the sounds of it, it should be the last welder I'll ever need.    I have yet to read a negative review on this welder and keeping an eye open on the craigslist, there seems to be fewer Dialarc for sale than the Lincoln Idealarc 250.   Right now there are at least two sixty year old Idealarc for sale in our region for about $350 each.    I read an article last night where it talks a little bit about 'power factor correction' feature that will save a lot of money on power cost.   I don't know if the Miller I'm looking at has this feature.    Anyone know if this should be a big concern for the occasional welder like me?
Reply:Don't really think the power factor correction would be worth the expense for an occasional welder. While it will save money on power costs for a commercial operation, for a hobbyist or other occasional user it may actually run up your electric bill slightly over a unit without it. You would be charging the power factor correction capacitors all the time whether you needed them or not, so if you didn't need the capacitors to moderate the large swings seen in commercial welding it would be a waste.The DialArc 250 is a great stick welder and would probably be the last one you would ever need. Bought mine for around $500-$550, don't remember which, but there was a welding table (sorry affair), vise (given away), several electrode holders (kept) and several 100 ft. of angle iron included in that price.EDIT: BTW the DialArc 250 takes a large breaker to run to it's limits. If you aren't thinking of doing that, buy a smaller AC/DC welder.2nd EDIT: Just to give you another view on power factor correction, in the Miller's owner's manual for this machine @ 230v input the unit takes 4.4 amps at idle without power factor correction and 24.8 amps at idle with power factor correction. So, while you may save on your power bill if you are using your welder extensively, in a home shop environment you would be feeding a hungry dog that won't bark at strangers loading up your tools in the middle of the night.Last edited by WyoRoy; 07-18-2013 at 12:27 PM.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:I agree, power factor correction is not a concern for home use.While at full power it is a hungry beast (90 amps wide open), a 60 amp breaker will rarely ever trip for normal mid range use.As another plus, at 365 lbs, it's harder to steal - LOLDave J. Attached ImagesLast edited by MinnesotaDave; 07-18-2013 at 01:11 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveAs another plus, at 365 lbs, it's harder to steal - LOLDave J.
Reply:Too heck with portable stuff - buy all tools too heavy to steal - and then lock up the cherry picker Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by kelloggI found a 30 year old Miller Dialarc 250 that the owner wants $500 firm. His grand father bought the welder new and passed it on to him who already has a mig welder. He claims the welder is in excellent condition and it comes only with 25' leads. The pictures he sent over looks like it is in real good condition. Is this welder worth $500 or should I keep looking for a better deal? I decided on either a Lincoln Idealarc 250 or Miller Dialarc 250 based on what many of you recommended in my previous posts.
Reply:I have a Dial Arc 250 HF living quite comfortably on a 60 amp circuit breaker.  I have run up to 250 amps output and never have tripped it.  As for the power factor correction?  Mine doesn't have it and it is not needed as the major draw back to these old machines is the noise of the cooling fan ,  It works great while welding but makes about as much noise as a small airplane on a full power run up.  I turn the welder off when not welding.   The old machine is about as simple as dirt and rugged as a rock with little to fail and if it should need service, parts are readily available and actually quite reasonably priced.As others have pointed out Dial Arc and portable are mutually opposite terms!There is about $500 worth of copper in the machine at today's scrap prices so you probably couldn't lose anything on it.RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Originally Posted by Rog02I have a Dial Arc 250 HF living quite comfortably on a 60 amp circuit breaker.  I have run up to 250 amps output and never have tripped it.  As for the power factor correction?  Mine doesn't have it and it is not needed as the major draw back to these old machines is the noise of the cooling fan ,  It works great while welding but makes about as much noise as a small airplane on a full power run up.  I turn the welder off when not welding.   The old machine is about as simple as dirt and rugged as a rock with little to fail and if it should need service, parts are readily available and actually quite reasonably priced.
Reply:Sold my Dialarc HF a few years ago for something like $800.  1978 model.Worked perfectly.  But even at that price it took a couple of weeks to sell.As for power.   I did run it off 30Amp plug for years - it would just trip the breaker at startup sometimes (sometimes 2or3 attempts to get it to start).   Moved to a 50Amp and all problems went away.When you TIG weld, arc voltage is normally around 15V.  I believe Miller rates the machines at 30V.  Now, if your on AC and try to break an arc....   Your total power draw may spike.  Unclear if it will spike long enough to trip a breaker.  Most breakers tend to be slow blow types.BTW, my dialarc literally gave me zero trouble.  The gas valve did leak a little - so if you left the argon bottle on over the weekend you were getting a new bottle (at least my 80s),  Gave me 10 years of trouble free service.My gut says $500 is on the high side.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:I don't want to sound wishy-washy, but some of the comments made here is making me think that both Lincoln Idealarc & Miller Dialarc may be more machine than I need.   I'm not going to weld big trailers or bridges.   In regards to power, I can bring in 100 amps without any problem.   Aside from the above two choices & Miller Thunderbolt, what other brand stick welders are considered good that will provide infinite amp control, AC/DC and reasonable cost?   In the craigslist, I see brands like Ward, Century, Craftsman, Hobart, Airco, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by kelloggI don't want to sound wishy-washy, but some of the comments made here is making me think that both Lincoln Idealarc & Miller Dialarc may be more machine than I need.   I'm not going to weld big trailers or bridges.   In regards to power, I can bring in 100 amps without any problem.   Aside from the above two choices & Miller Thunderbolt, what other brand stick welders are considered good that will provide infinite amp control, AC/DC and reasonable cost?   In the craigslist, I see brands like Ward, Century, Craftsman, Hobart, Airco, etc.
Reply:The Dialarc/Idealarc welders have a much nicer arc than cheaper buzz-boxes, and they are industrial machines, built to last. Well worth a few extra $$ if the size and weight aren't a concern.On the subject of power factor caps, I have to disagree with some of the above posters. You pay for watts, not amps. Unless you have industrial electrical service with a "demand" meter, the amps drawn at idle will not increase your electric bill. On the other hand, the lower current drawn under load by machines with power factor caps means that you can run the machine at high currents with a smaller breaker than with a machine without PFC caps.If you look at the chart in post #9 by MinnesotaDave, you can see that at full power, the PFC version will work on a 50A breaker vs. a 70A breaker for the non-PFC version. This can make a big difference for people with limited power available.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Not sure what state you live in but here is a good choice if you want a smaller welder.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Airco-welder...item51af751db4And wow!   Look at this beauty!!  Even has the HF box included.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Airco-welder...item3a830ce7d8Last edited by MWalden; 07-18-2013 at 09:20 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-based...Unless you have industrial electrical service with a "demand" meter, the amps drawn at idle will not increase your electric bill...John
Reply:That AIRCO/Miller Dialarc is one clean machine!  Wow."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumI think not.  Please enlighten us.
Reply:My son and I both have the bumblee (Airco ) version  we run them on 60 amp breakers.  They are old but do a great job for us. The orange paint is a little rough from them beinging used in an Industrial Plant for many years on an assembly line, but they work great.    Well built and have good parts in them.  We used a HF-15 High frequency with one of them from about 1979 till 1985 with good results. richey
Reply:Originally Posted by kelloggI don't want to sound wishy-washy, but some of the comments made here is making me think that both Lincoln Idealarc & Miller Dialarc may be more machine than I need.   I'm not going to weld big trailers or bridges.   In regards to power, I can bring in 100 amps without any problem.   Aside from the above two choices & Miller Thunderbolt, what other brand stick welders are considered good that will provide infinite amp control, AC/DC and reasonable cost?   In the craigslist, I see brands like Ward, Century, Craftsman, Hobart, Airco, etc.
Reply:I had a Black Face Lincoln 180 AC Welder for years, then a Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC for a bunch more years. Bought a DIAL-ARC a couple of years ago for about $350(?). Prices reflect by State location. It runs all I usually need for Circuit Breaker duty cycle (50amps) unless I really push the Welders Duty Cycle, then the breaker will trip. It is somewhere around eight 1/8" 7018 at 125amps going as fast as you can load them into the Stinger.Thats Production Welding in a Hobby setting!BTWA guy gave me a Lincoln 180C(?) that is sitting on the table for restoration.Its Copper wound and Heavy!originally posted by drujinin - Bought a DIAL-ARC a couple of years ago for about $350(?). Prices reflect by State location. It runs all I usually need for Circuit Breaker duty cycle (50amps) unless I really push the Welders Duty Cycle, then the breaker will trip. It is somewhere around eight 1/8" 7018 at 125amps going as fast as you can load them into the Stinger.
Reply:I bought my Dialarc 250 HF for $50 (I lucked out, for sure) and wouldn't hesitate to pay $500 for it. It welds very smooth and is very forgiving for a welding schlubb like me. Scrap value is about $500 today, so you can't lose, you will never need another stick welder and it welds much smoother than a tombstone or similar machine with much more versatility. Who knows, maybe one day you WILL want to build a bridge!! When the fan gets too loud, I pick up a grinder When a welder tells you to "stick it", what do they really mean?"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell