got some pipe. time to learn how to weld it

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Picked up 8 foot of 8in pipe today at work for $20. Soon as I get some bottles for the victor I'm gonna cut some nipples and try my hand at pipe welding. Any suggestions?
Reply:They are called pups, not nipples. You can cut them with a zip wheel. Bevel them,then have a pipe welder come over and show you some basics.
Reply:Yeah I knew it wasn't the proper name, but couldn't remember for the life of me. HahaIn the electrical trade, we call any short piece of pipe a nipple.
Reply:Weld a few while rolling the pipe to get used to changing the travel angle, after you do that start working on other positions. Post some pics after you weld a few. Try to remember while welding it..Pipe is just bent plate. Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Thanks squirmy. I have welded a couple joints....but they were just drain pipes for a boiler system. Zero pressure! They didn't leak but I wouldn't have tryed to bend test any of the joints. Thing is once I got a little used to the curve it wasn't super bad, but I had to roll it and I welded it up hill.I think all these pipeliners are doing 6010 & 8010 down hill. Seems like that would be a little harder to me.Is a man better off starting with 6010 root and 7018 cap up hill or 6010 & 8010 down hill?
Reply:6010/7018 up, tig root/7018 is also something you should practice. Most places don't want downhill welding.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:a few weeks ago Exxon approved a pipe procedure for us to use that involved 6010 down and 7018 up
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPug6010/7018 up, tig root/7018 is also something you should practice. Most places don't want downhill welding.
Reply:Don't know where you heard that downhill is not that common . There are thousands of miles of mainline that say different. Any oilfield or gas line is 5p with 8010 out. Uphill is for plants and whatnot. Take a week of Sundays to lohi 36 inch uphill. But what do I know I am just a dumb pipeliner. We use lohi for sleeves and a few other things. Downhill is like a forbidden thing to most people but it is used every day to get gas to water heaters and power plants all over the US. Look up API 1104.  Uphill is used lots but I get tired of all the new welders out of school telling me that it is t used. Pressure vessels welded to b 31.3 is a different story or structural code d 1.1 and 1.5. Depending on what you want to do. Practice it all. A good pipe hand can weld all of it. It is like round plate . IfYou were close to home is offerTo lend you a hand. Pm if you have any questions.Last edited by specopswelder; 07-30-2013 at 10:51 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by specopswelderDon't know where you heard that downhill is not that common . There are thousands of miles of mainline that say different. Any oilfield or gas line is 5p with 8010 out. Uphill is for plants and whatnot. Take a week of Sundays to lohi 36 inch uphill. But what do I know I am just a dumb pipeliner. We use lohi for sleeves and a few other things. Downhill is like a forbidden thing to most people but it is used every day to get had to water heaters and power plants all over the US.
Reply:What type of pipe welding you looking at getting into is going to dictitate what you should learn first. I would learn up hil, with 6010 and 7018, as well as downhill 6010,7018 up, 10 rods down all the way out, tig, 7018 fill and cap.   Nice score on the pipe, great price.
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugI just re-read this thread, where did someone say it was uncommon to weld downhill?
Reply:Originally Posted by specopswelderYour earlier post said most places don't want downhill welding. That is true for most structural steel and in plant work. Sorry may have taken it wrong. I get it from lots of people saying that the welds I do everyday are not correct that downhill welding takes less skill or doesn't exist. It does exist and it does take skill I do both. No worries just a miss understanding.
Reply:Thanks specops! I will drop you a line as soon as I get started.  Might be a week or two, I'm workin 6 10s atm and there is talk of goin 7 12s next week.... get it while ya can I guess.I would like to be able to do it all. I need to have my butt in school for a couple more semesters but I gotta scratch out a living so I'm just gonna have to burn some rods in the back yard til I'm ready to go take a bend test. I will give both methods a shot and start with the on that seems easiest I guess and then move on to the next. Thanks for the feed back yall! I will post some pics as soon as I get started
Reply:Give yourself about a 3/32 gap, put a land on tge edge of bevel, (grind off knife edge) start off horizontal 2g and keep stick angle slightly favoring upper bevel to componsate gravity. (7018): hold top and roll it down to bottom plate... You want a keyhole, you wanna walk the keyhole, if it opens up too much, arc onto more of the bevel.(6010)... You are gonna want to watch stick angle, similar to 7018, but you will whip in and out of the keyhole.Its difficult to explain, im getting anxiety wanting to demonstrate, haha This is my last mig of day in 5g, please disregard me not wire wheeling silica off of it, still getting post weld heat treated, sand blasted and painted, so i didnt carr ;pGood luck brother,Check out some videos on tipsandtricks.com , jodie is a good weldor with helpful tipsSal
Reply:WPS good staring point. I use a drag to run 5p in I put a 3/32 land and a tight 1/8 gap and run a 5/32 5p on 45 on my remote and burry it in the keyhole. If it closes tip the rod back to wash it open if it gets big keep the rod tight and fed in it. I use pressure on the bevel and drop it in. All the fire on the inside. Sometimes an ad hood will not turn on. If I lohi the bead I run a 3/32 and a wider gap and walk it in kinda like tig. Confusing as mud. Takes hood time to get your hand in it. Don't over bevel the pipe. It can't carry as much heat. I cheat the bevels ..... Cut em a little steep. Keeps the fill time and makes the cap easier. Like I said pm me. If it takes a phone call or whatever. I don't mind giving a hand. Cheers on the OT. Had a good couple weeks myself had 175 hour the last two weeks. Money money yeah. Cheers
Reply:the best thing to practice on is 2" schedule 160-180 wall and 6" schedule 40-80 pipe seeing how NO company sets up tests based on 8inch and if your going to practice, practice as if you were testing, like your depending on how well it turns out. Don't cut corners, and mainly don't get frustrated. Might I ask what machine you are using? Usually the companies I have tested for test with 6010 root, one 6010 hot pass and fill and cap with 7018. I suggest 3/32 7018 easier to maneuver and handle. If you are using an sa-200 I can help you out tons. This piece was a 2" 160 test coupon I welded up with my 87' sa-200 with no remote. Patience and practice will yield results. Learning your machine and specific heats and the rods used towards those heats. The first picture with the 3 bead cap was done in a 6g position also the 2nd picture is the same piece with just multiple beads to practice consistency Attached Images
Reply:Thanks bostick.  I will be using an 86 blackface. No remote.I picked up the 8in because of the price. I remember in school the pipe guys would start out with 8in and then move to smaller pipe, but in the advanced pipe coarses they would also weld 12 inch and make t joints.  They actually say the larger pipe is easier for a beginner, but it just happened to be what I ran across so I snatched it up.
Reply:hey bro I live in ft.worth where you working at? Also you are correct in that statement. Bigger pipe is easier to practice on yes. More room to fix errors and such. The 12 inch is for pipeliner test called a "branch and bellhole" Like you said a "T Joint" that test is an endurance test designed to test the welders skills. Never done one but Ive heard the fit is the most critical part on that. I have an 87 blackface also wouldn't trade it for anything. Welds so amazing. But I highly suggest getting some 6" and 2" pieces if you want to REALLY practice. But for now any and everything you get will do the trick. Might I suggest you use this site when you feel comfortable and want to start testing sometime. http://triengonline.com/store/page2.html
Reply:Originally Posted by Bostick101the best thing to practice on is 2" schedule 160-180 wall and 6" schedule 40-80 pipe seeing how NO company sets up tests based on 8inch and if your going to practice, practice as if you were testing, like your depending on how well it turns out. Don't cut corners, and mainly don't get frustrated. Might I ask what machine you are using? Usually the companies I have tested for test with 6010 root, one 6010 hot pass and fill and cap with 7018. I suggest 3/32 7018 easier to maneuver and handle. If you are using an sa-200 I can help you out tons. This piece was a 2" 160 test coupon I welded up with my 87' sa-200 with no remote. Patience and practice will yield results. Learning your machine and specific heats and the rods used towards those heats. The first picture with the 3 bead cap was done in a 6g position also the 2nd picture is the same piece with just multiple beads to practice consistency
Reply:yeah when your keyhole gets too big and your rod angle/with the whipping doesn't help. Down 10... then adjust from there. Bigger the key hole the hotter and further away it gets from your electrode is based on your heats. Some inspectors when testing if they don't like your root your out. roll your **** up and head home. its pretty depressing when your busted out before you even began. Ideally your root pass should be uniform all the way around no irregularities especially at your tie-ins. How many tacks are you using initially?
Reply:also I forgot your fit/gap/landing determines what heat you should start at. That takes you knowing your machine and messing with it. There is this term used "Nickel landing penny gap" meaning the rim of a nickel you want your landing to be the size of and the gap the thickness of a penny. Gap is own personal preference. I use a Saw-zaw blade for my gapper seems to work perfect.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bostick101the best thing to practice on is 2" schedule 160-180 wall and 6" schedule 40-80 pipe seeing how NO company sets up tests based on 8inch and if your going to practice, practice as if you were testing, like your depending on how well it turns out. Don't cut corners, and mainly don't get frustrated. Might I ask what machine you are using? Usually the companies I have tested for test with 6010 root, one 6010 hot pass and fill and cap with 7018. I suggest 3/32 7018 easier to maneuver and handle. If you are using an sa-200 I can help you out tons. This piece was a 2" 160 test coupon I welded up with my 87' sa-200 with no remote. Patience and practice will yield results. Learning your machine and specific heats and the rods used towards those heats. The first picture with the 3 bead cap was done in a 6g position also the 2nd picture is the same piece with just multiple beads to practice consistency
Reply:Originally Posted by PachecoweldI don't mean to steal this thread, but I recently did a 6g welding test with heavy wall 2" pipe.  I did decent seeing as I have almost no experience with pipe, I've done all structural.  I had a heck of a time keeping the keyhole from getting too large on the root pass running 6010.  I tried my best to keep a good rod angle, whipped out of the keyhole frequently and turned the heat down, but it was pretty tough.  The rest went well considering the little practice I've had with pipe and doing the 6g position.  Any suggestions?
Reply:You guys whip the root?Originally Posted by Bostick101hey bro I live in ft.worth where you working at? Also you are correct in that statement. Bigger pipe is easier to practice on yes. More room to fix errors and such. The 12 inch is for pipeliner test called a "branch and bellhole" Like you said a "T Joint" that test is an endurance test designed to test the welders skills. Never done one but Ive heard the fit is the most critical part on that. I have an 87 blackface also wouldn't trade it for anything. Welds so amazing. But I highly suggest getting some 6" and 2" pieces if you want to REALLY practice. But for now any and everything you get will do the trick. Might I suggest you use this site when you feel comfortable and want to start testing sometime. http://triengonline.com/store/page2.html
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughMan I'm workin in bonham, building a school. (Commercial electrician) its just temporary,  I just needed a job while I job hunt. I'm getting out of the electrical trade and hopefully construction all together.So that site does testing? Do you just mail the stuff in or something?
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughYou guys whip the root?
Reply:I only whip the root in bad fit up. Other wise burry it in there so no fire is on the outside.  The branch and bellhole is a good test ofCutting fitting welding and welding tired and pist off. Here is the last branch with 8010 I did. Not super purty but got me a job.
Reply:On plate we were taught to drag an open root butt on the root pass.  Then we did a whip and pause for the hot pass and fill and then a 7018 multipass cap. Open root butts were very frustrating on plate and then one day it just clicked. I figure pipe will be the same but maybe a little worse. HahaI'm chompin at the bit over here! Cant wait til payday so I can buy some bottles and cut some "pups"
Reply:Originally Posted by specopswelderI only whip the root in bad fit up. Other wise burry it in there so no fire is on the outside.  The branch and bellhole is a good test ofCutting fitting welding and welding tired and pist off. Here is the last branch with 8010 I did. Not super purty but got me a job.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughLooks good to me! Is there a formula for the layout? And how do you get such straight lines around a pipe? Maybe a stupid question,  but a straight line on a round pipe seems hard to do without rotating it
Reply:A fella just offered me the same set up by victor for $500. I'm thinkin about buying it
Reply:Nope it was all hand cut. Used the pipe fitter blue book has the lay out for it. The straight cuts where with a beveler. The rest was all hand. Use a pipe wrap and go to town. Really ain't that hard.   Get someone to help you mark the saddle.
Reply:you can get a good victor torch set up for 200$ with the whole kit. don't go spending 500+$ on the professional.http://www.weldfabulous.com/p-20695-...ty-outfit.aspx
Reply:You can also build yourself a bend tester (basically a hydraulic press with a set of bend test jaws, there's a thread or two somewhere with specs and an AWS reference).That lets you test MANY coupons, and if instead of buying them you just cut and bevel your own you'll save bank. They got fast with an angle grinder which was why our old pipeliner instructors made them do it that way. Our trainees  who made it through the course went from "off the block" to passing 6G pipe tests in 19 weeks. When we handed them a machine-bevelled piece now and then they thought they were in luxury.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bostick101yeah ive never heard of it called that ive used the term reset the root whipping is for hot passing  maybe its a terminology mix up
Reply:different strokes diff. folks I guess. Time for me to come up with a new one. uhhh lets see
Reply:I've whipped roots, dragged roots, used circular motions for roots, and a few other techniques.  It all depends on the fit up, which dictates the way I will put the root in.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bostick101you can get a good victor torch set up for 200$ with the whole kit. don't go spending 500+$ on the professional.http://www.weldfabulous.com/p-20695-...ty-outfit.aspx
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughI just bought a victor journeyman outfit the other day. I'm set on a torch.I was talkin about the pipe beveler. A guy offered me a victor pipe beveler for 500. Btw I only gave $350 for my new in box cutting torch! Had to brag a little more
Reply:That's what he said it was. Looks like a torch that rotates around a pipe
Reply:yeah I had no clue victor made one....now I must get one.
Reply:looks like an H&M machine to me.  With a Victor barrel torch-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:in school there teaching us on 6 in pipe they said uphill 6010 root 7018 fill and cap they didnt say anything about a hot pass what is a hot pass ? sorry for a newb question and should i do a 6010 hot pass after i grind down my root a little ?
Reply:Originally Posted by tylersloanin school there teaching us on 6 in pipe they said uphill 6010 root 7018 fill and cap they didnt say anything about a hot pass what is a hot pass ? sorry for a newb question and should i do a 6010 hot pass after i grind down my root a little ?
Reply:Originally Posted by handtpipelinelooks like an H&M machine to me.  With a Victor barrel torch
Reply:Originally Posted by tylersloanin school there teaching us on 6 in pipe they said uphill 6010 root 7018 fill and cap they didnt say anything about a hot pass what is a hot pass ? sorry for a newb question and should i do a 6010 hot pass after i grind down my root a little ?
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughWell between the three of us, your the only pipe welder so I will take your word on it. Is $500 a good price?
Reply:[QUOTE=akabadnews;2919951]On 5" pipe I use the hot pass/first fill pass to establish depth for the rest of the fill, since the root face isn't always consistently smooth all the way around (I don't grind the root bead, I wire wheel it).QUOTE]Why would you not grind your root out? root face doesn't make a difference. its the root on the interior that they are concerned about. The object of grinding the root is when you put in your hot pass with 6010 it digs and pushed the bead out making it uniform and to see if you have any low/bad spots that would fail you on a bend or xray. If your just wire wheeling your root pass for home projects that is fine. That just seemed to be really strange thing to say and teach people...