Trailer Frame Repair

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In the spring I lent my tandem axle utility trailer to my brother and he hauled some firewood with it.  I am going to get some wood for myself on Friday so I was giving the trailer a pre-trip inspection today.  I found he must have hit a pothole causing top of axle tubes to impact the bottom frame rails on the right side of the trailer.  The frame is 2x3 rectangular tube with .120 wall and it has two half moon kind of dents as a result of the impact.  I would guesstimate the half moon dents are maybe 1/4"-1/2"  into the bottom of tube frame rails and the tube is slightly bowed out on the 3" side.  I know your gonna wanna see some pics, but I was hoping to get some input on how to repair this damage.  I will try on thursday to get some pics...but I have to remove the tires in order to get quality pics to show the damage.  Thanks for your input on repairing this I spoke to him and he remembers hitting a bad hole but said it came up quickly when he was following a semi on the freeway.Last edited by woodtick007; 10-16-2013 at 10:28 PM.
Reply:It would take severe overloading and a pot hole to do that.  I'd say your brother owes you a trailer.My name's not Jim....
Reply:I'm interested in what some would recommend on this one.I've welded in repair sections in the past, but none in that area.On one of my tandem trailers, it would be pretty fast to flip it with the tractor and replace the whole rail.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I don't know if it will make ya feel better but there are a ton of tube frame trailers on the road with dents in those areas. Back on topic I would probably plate over the dented in spot with some .188" and heat hammer the bulge back in.Ranger 250 thick stuffHobart Handler 140 not thick stuffthe pane and oxy setup
Reply:Maybe it's time for bro to get his own tlr. so when he screws his up you can charge him to fix it.                                   MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I may not be qualified to give advice, but i would just prolly reinforce that area by sheathing it with 1/4 inch angle. prolly the average joe would never even notice that  it got dented until they changed a tire or something broke.
Reply:Need to see some pictures to know if you even need to bother with it, particularly showing how this tube plays into the structure of the thing.
Reply:Pics please. Off the top of my head, without seeing it, Put the whole thing on jack stands,snatch the axles and springs, cut out the dents in a "V", point to the top, until it sags back into about normal position.Weld in a 2 x 3 x 1/4" angle about a foot long and call it a day.Plate the backside.Last edited by Burpee; 10-17-2013 at 07:21 AM.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:If the dented rail is still straight, ignore it. For some piece of mind, you may want to reinforce it.If the rail is truly bent, do as Burpee suggests, pull it apart, cut out the damage and weld in a new section.Until is does (or doesn't) match a straight-edge, there's no knowing what is appropriate action.First things first, though; get a new brother that won't screw up your stuff. Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:I would cut the whole section around the damage out and replace. Or leave it alone and when you sell it call itan "offroad" trailer because of the additional travel.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:If the dent was from the top I'd be more concerned than it being from the bottom. Think about the member and how it's stressed loaded. Basically you have cambered it (although rather crudely).  Like kinetic mentioned... this is a very common deformation on trailers and I'm sure some engineer has taken the enviable into account at some time. Likely the best action is to do nothing. The correct method of repair would require returning the member back to it's original shape. I'd attempt to flame straighten it before replacing it. With some patience you should be able to pull the arc out and the bulge will suck in. Think about how the material was disrupted and remove it in reverse with heat and careful pulling. You'll likely need to make some simple tools. Once it's returned to it's original shape it will be as strong as new provided there wasn't any cracking or tearing.
Reply:it's a tandem axle dented directly above each axle. the support for the frame is on both sides of both dents. I'd leave it alone as the forces on that area of the trailer aren't acting on that section of the frame in the direction that would make it a concern. If the dent were say on the top in front of the springs I might be concerned. but for this I wouldn't worry about it.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I am also with the folks that say leave it unless the tube has a significant bow to it. A dent there will not hurt much structurally. If I were going to fix it I would cut out the bottom and sides that are out of shape and plate it. Since the original tube is 1/8" thickness I would use 3/16" thick plates. Cut the side plate ends at 45 deg. and put a point on each end of the bottom plate and make the bottom plate either longer or shorter than the sides so that you don't have straight welds for a crack to follow.
Reply:I'll disagree with the idea that if the tube is bent it hasn't been structurally damaged. As soon as you buckle the sides and bend the bottom, the strength of the tube in that section is severely compromised and can carry no where near the loads it could in it's original shape. A good example is that of a soda can. You can stand on an empty soda can ( well at least some are light enough to do this even if I'm not any more). The shape of the can works to transfer the load and it supports the weight no problem. Tap the side lightly and all of a sudden the can collapses. The reason, the sides provided the structural strength and as soon as it buckled, the load destroyed the structure. Square tube works in a fairly similar manner.  Bend the bottom and or buckle the sides and you destroy it's ability to carry loads.That said, the real question is what loads are actually carried on that section of the frame. If the damage is where I think it is, that area shouldn't be too heavily loaded, and thus the damage may not have all that much effect on the trailer. I'd really need to see picts to make an educated guess though..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:We agree then. LOL I should have been more clear and said that damage to the tube in that area will not significantly weaken the trailer because  the tube does not have much stress in that area since the load is carried both forward and behind the damaged areas, and the high stress areas for that frame member are forward of the front spring hanger and behind the rear hanger. I guess I made a common mistake for people giving advice, I glossed over the details thinking it was common knowledge.
Reply:Originally Posted by dwatsonI may not be qualified to give advice, but i would just prolly reinforce that area by sheathing it with 1/4 inch angle. prolly the average joe would never even notice that  it got dented until they changed a tire or something broke.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmIt would take severe overloading and a pot hole to do that.  I'd say your brother owes you a trailer.
Reply:It was carelessness. Legally known as 'neglegence': Not taking prudent care of somebody else's property.I've rented plenty of stuff that the previous users (and the staff at the rental place) didn't care about. I usually spend half of the learning curve time on tightening bolts and making the thing fit-to-use. However, we are talking about a family member. Forgiveness, not legal action, is the proper answer.Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by mike837goIt was carelessness. Legally known as 'neglegence': Not taking prudent care of somebody else's property.I've rented plenty of stuff that the previous users (and the staff at the rental place) didn't care about. I usually spend half of the learning curve time on tightening bolts and making the thing fit-to-use. However, we are talking about a family member. Forgiveness, not legal action, is the proper answer.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjNot necessarily. You could easily, either on purpose or accidentally, put together a suspension that doesn't have enough clearance between the axle and frame which could cause this type damage without overloading. Most trailer springs have about 3" +/- max deflection so if his trailer has less than 3" between the frame and axle with the equalizer fully tilted in either direction this could be a design flaw and not from carelessness.
Reply:Originally Posted by woodtick007I bought this trailer pre-enjoyed and it was built much heavier than required for two 3500lb axles.  The tongue is made up of 3"x 5"x 3/8 angle from the coupler and stops at the front axle. The outside frame rails are 2x3x.122 tube with the cross members 2x3x.250 angle. The top rails and stanchions are all constructed of 2x2x.12@ square tubing.  I think you hit the nail on the head as I have always looked at the distance from the top of the axle to the bottom on the frame and thought why is that soo close. My intentions were to replace the springs this fall OR and increase the length of the shakles  hoping to gain an additional inch of clearance.  This trailer rides very low to the ground...so much that I have to put a jack under it in order to get under it to take some pictures.Thank You to everyone who has shared their opinions and knowledge.  I intend on getting some pics posted Saturday.
Reply:If you need extra height, consider a spring over axle conversion. May be preferable to larger shackles... Only you can say for sure.Everlast PA160-STH... and that's about it!
Reply:"Pre-enjoyed"I like that too. It perfectly describes the 1983 travel trailer I bought off the original owner in 2009. I've even left several of thier homey touches place: They were deeply religious Catholics and I am a non-practicing Jew. But the Crusifix, picure of the Virgin Mary and a set of Rosary Beeds are still where they left them. I still can't figure out why I left their daughter's hair scrunchie on the bathroom doorknob.I've replaced the fridge, upgraded the stove and range hood. Replaced all of the highway lighting. Installed new curtains. Installed a new axle. Fixed the plumbing several times. Completely re-engineered the bed. But those very personal objects will reamain where they are.I only wish I could have preserved the stickers across the back showing where that trailer has been.Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by mike837go Fixed the plumbing several times.
Reply:Originally Posted by joshuabardwellIf you need extra height, consider a spring over axle conversion. May be preferable to larger shackles... Only you can say for sure.Shouldn't have posted that hitch Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:This has been all very interesting in the least considering nobody ever saw 1 pic......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Great.. now it looks like I'm talking about a hitch that doesn't exist  Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by woodtick007I have a custom reciever-hitch
Reply:Originally Posted by mike837go"Pre-enjoyed"I like that too. It perfectly describes the 1983 travel trailer I bought off the original owner in 2009. I've even left several of thier homey touches place: They were deeply religious Catholics and I am a non-practicing Jew. But the Crusifix, picure of the Virgin Mary and a set of Rosary Beeds are still where they left them. I still can't figure out why I left their daughter's hair scrunchie on the bathroom doorknob.I've replaced the fridge, upgraded the stove and range hood. Replaced all of the highway lighting. Installed new curtains. Installed a new axle. Fixed the plumbing several times. Completely re-engineered the bed. But those very personal objects will reamain where they are.I only wish I could have preserved the stickers across the back showing where that trailer has been.
Reply:Just one more thought, since you did have a fairly significant impact of the axle with the frame make sure you check for a bent axle or two before you get too deep into any other repairs. I always hate to spend a bunch of money and time on something only to find more later. If you need to replace the axles anyway it may change how you handle the rest.
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverFrame repairs aside, you might want to set it up in such a way that you don't have a repeat dent if you make frame repairs. To do that, you have to assess your options and limitations. To gain a small amount of clearance, you can ...... you have a lot of options.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerIt's not "Fixed" until you don't have to mess with it anymore. until then it's a temporary repair. lol.