Travel trailer to equipment hauler

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Ok, need expert advise. I've acquired a 31' travel trailer that had extensive water damage. I have stripped it down to the frame. It has 10" I-beam main beams, 4500lb axles with brakes on both and should fit the bill nicely for a tractor hauler, GVW is around 9k. I intend to weld up a square tubing frame on top after I add some reinforcement between the rails. So here is where I wanted some advice. Was thinking 2x2 3/16 or 1/4 for the framework, with rectangle on the outer perimeter that would act as board retention as well. Where the crossbeams extend beyond the main beams I plan to put a 45 degree reinforcement down to the bottom of the I-beams. I'm also planning to dovetail the last 5 feet by cutting a wedge out and heating and bending the beam, then cutting the angle and adding reinforcement as needed. For the angle was thinking 11 degrees or so. Am I on target for the size of the square tubing? Welding will be done either with a Lincoln tombstone or 180 wire feeder. Including the required Attached Images
Reply:Oh forgot to add the end use of this. I'll be hauling a 34hp Kubota 4wd with front loader and a bush hog or box blade, etc... Also intend to build a 3ft by 3ft by 8ft box on the front for small generator, gas compressor and tools/straps. The dry rolling weight on this as a travel trailer was around 6200 lbs.
Reply:IDK ...How long have you been welding and what is your location Some of those travel trailer frames are very flimsy and were only engineered for being a travel trailer But you have the right idea and the tomb stone is your best bet along with some 7018Let some others chime in on thisBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:I keep looking at the corrugated "I" beam and thinking the web looks like sheet tin. As mentioned most travel trailers aren't built for frame strength. They get the vast majority of their stiffness from the walls, not the frame.I certainly wouldn't try to notch and bend the frame for a beaver tail if the beam is built up and the web is corrugated sheet. You'd have to do a ton of box work to stiffen that area, especially if it holds weight going down the road. From what I can see in the pict I wouldn't bother trying to use the frame. Best bet to try and do this would be to scrap all the steel and start fresh. I'd also agree with Killdozer that just because you have the material and tools to do this, doesn't mean you have the  skills to do the welds. Flipping and rolling the frame so you can do all flat welds might be possible with the right equipment, but I'd say you need to have the skills to do code quality welds in all positions, especially vertical and overhead to pull a project of this weight class off. Most hobby class welders generally don't have that skill level..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Not a great frame, but it might be ok if you stick to what you say you will be doing. The problem will be when you update to a larger tractor. Looks like the tires are about even with the top of the frame now so you will need about 3-4" of crossmembers to keep the floor from rubbing the tires. I would use 3 or 4" channel which would be about equal in cost to the tube and strong enough without gussets. If you are going to use 2X lumber for the floor space them at 16-18". Make sure you add some crossmembers that go to the bottom of the main rails and at each suspension hanger. This is now going to be an off road trailer so you will definately want them at each hanger. To do the beavertail cut the wedge out of the web of the beam and bend the top rail down, leaving the bottom rail straight. That will be stronger than cutting a V and bending the whole beam. I like to do the outer rail out of channel too, turned out with the stake pockets on the inside of that. Then run the boards inside of the pockets. This gives a dent free outside rail and lots of places to tie to.
Reply:The flanges are where the strength is, you could always beef up all the flanges this way. I've done it thousands of time to beams. I would X-brace that frame also. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I've been welding for about 25 years. Been several years since I've done much but am very confident in my skill level. I'm in NWFL close to Pensacola. I won't be going any bigger for the tractor. It's the perfect size for my needs and requirements. I agree that it's not the best frame, but is what I have and I can work on it when extra funds are there and let it sit when they aren't there. I would much rather just pick up a used trailer somewhere, but that isn't an option for me at this time. I greatly appreciate the input everyone. I hadn't really put much thought in the channel. Back when I built trailers we used square and rectangular almost exclusively.
Reply:What about the hitch? How heavy is that tractor?
Reply:2 15/16 hitch. Tractor with the loader on and filled tires is 4100 lbs. Add approximately 4-500 lb for bush hog or box blade. Rake and such probably around 200 lb.
Reply:It looks like the axles are a bit far back. You may have to be very careful when you load your heavier tools/toys.2x 4,500lb axles= 9,000lbs GTW. Looks like you've got 1,200lbs of steel already + reinforcment + decking.Do you plan on taking it out on the highway? If so, you'll be into some peculiar legal territory. The heaviest-duty rear hitch available today maxes out at 5,000lbs GTW (500lbs TW). After that, a gooseneck/5th wheel arrangement is required.The way the trailer's tongue ties into the rest of the frame screams "Light Duty". This trailer was designed and built to carry just enough walls and roof to shelter a family. Carrying your compact tractor directly over the axles will be maxing it out. Then the implements AND a generator? Scary.If you are planning on using it just around your property, I'd say go for it! But if you are trying to build a highway capable (over 40MPH) trailer for hauling anything you own (or buy), look at how a boat trailer is built. The way the load stresses are brought to the axles is completely different!Think it through a bit more: What you've got and what you'd like to wind up with...Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:Yeah I'm still working up figures but I'm not sure about the bumper pull thing, as I can go buy a 10k or bigger bumper pull trailer at 3 different local trailer shops. They only require that they have brakes at above a certain weight. Just about everyone I know that has a compact utility tractor hauls them on bumper pulls. Oh and use would be local. No interstate but limited hwy. Mostly country roads.
Reply:I haul my small compact tractor in my dump trailer all the time. What do you think about building a gooseneck adapter for that camp trailer? Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:If it's going to be just for hauling a compact tractor & accsessories, my plan of action would be to move the axle assembly forward about half-way and lop off the back 1/3. That'll remove about 1,000 lbs of structure, reinforcing and decking. As well as less stress on the frame from your load.Weigh the trailer when you are done and keep the TGW under 5,000.Enjoy the project and what you'll do with it later!Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by mike837goDo you plan on taking it out on the highway? If so, you'll be into some peculiar legal territory. The heaviest-duty rear hitch available today maxes out at 5,000lbs GTW (500lbs TW). After that, a gooseneck/5th wheel arrangement is required.The way the trailer's tongue ties into the rest of the frame screams "Light Duty". This trailer was designed and built to carry just enough walls and roof to shelter a family. Carrying your compact tractor directly over the axles will be maxing it out. Then the implements AND a generator? Scary.Think it through a bit more: What you've got and what you'd like to wind up with...
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerif 5000 is the biggest payload than why do all 1/2 ton trucks boast about their 10,000 lbs of towing?
Reply:Might want to look at the hitch types and ratings...http://www.etrailer.com/faq-hitchclasses.aspx I also dare you to turn the last 3 feet of the frame on my truck into a pretzel with only 500 lbs of weight. It's a 550 class truck and the receiver is rated at 18K, 1800 lb tongue weight. The truck is rated to tow a full sized backhoe if I wanted and not need to go with a gooseneck or 5th wheel. A 4K pallet of roofing shingles on the *** end of the truck didn't even get the truck to squat one bit. You'll find a lot of guys pulling 10K trailers with 350 class trucks and class IV hitches and not destroying the frames.I will admit you need to know how to load the trailer when towing. I've seen guys with small skid steers on 7K trailers with the weight so far forward on the trailer that they are almost picking the front wheels up off the ground..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by mike837goNot behind the bumper, they don't! You'll turn that last 3' of frame into pretzle dough when you dump over 500lbs that far aft. Then the headlamps no longer light up the road. 5th wheel hitch & gooseneck trailer when you get over 5,000 lbs.
Reply:Uh, DSW, ThorsHammer specifically mentioned 1/2 ton class trucks that have a claimed towing capacity of 10,000 lbs.Those 'light duty' trucks are what I was refering to. Once we get into 'real' trucks, like your 550, then 10,000 lbs trailers are well withing the capacity of the frame, suspension, axles, etc.I've seen plenty of 2 and 3 axle dump trucks with pintle hitches safely hauling close to 30,000 lbs of trailer and heavy equipment. But an F150 or 1500 series pickup? Keep in under 5,000 behind the bumper.Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:Sorry, I missed Thor's 1/2 ton post..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:This is what i have my tractor on Attachment 535471Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:I think what your tractor really needs to be on is steroids. .No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWSorry, I missed Thor's 1/2 ton post.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI think what your tractor really needs to be on is steroids.
Reply:fair enough, but i would argue that shortening it is more likely to cause problems than just loading it so that it is balanced.And i'm sorry, but nearly every half ton pickup on the road right now can be had with a max-tow type package making it capable of towing over 10k.  these packages include hitches to match the truck's rating.every class 3 hitch on the market i have ever seen can handle more than 5k when using a WD hitch.  whether you feel comfortable doing so is a matter of opinion, but the fact is Ford, Dodge, and Chevy all have 9000k lbs towing without the max tow options.  getting the max tow will bump you over 10k with a 1/2 ton. Originally Posted by mike837goIs cool.--------"No need to monkey around with relocating axles, IMO. just load the trailer right and use a good WD setup, which the trailer will already be set up for."I suggested moving the axles to shorten the trailer becuase those 'I-beams' are made up from corregated sheet metal and will flex in some peculiar ways when there is a heavy load over a bumpy road at that span. He wants to carry a 30+ HP compact tractor & accessories (I've got 2 similar units). No matter how well that kind of load is tied down, it bounces. The mass of the tractor is still resting on it's own tires. Every bump is transmitted through the trailer's tires and springs to the tractor's tires and then the mass of the tractor. That much weight then comes back down through all of those connections. It is not unsafe, just weird when your load is NOT behaving as a single mass. So, by sortening that very flexable trailer (making it less flexy) it will help reduce the amount of wierdness when hauling what he plans to haul.Again, that is what I would do. I will never tellanother welder what must be done, unless there are clear leagal or safety considerations.
Reply:I just went and re-measured the frame and the length without the tongue is 28 feet. The center of the middle axle hanger is 17' or so. That puts it almost dead on 60/40 split. I also found a place to check the thickness of the I beam center and it's corrugated 1/8" thick solid.I did it with a 20 foot trailer, but by the end I really only had the the axles left and I cut the an added 80 pipe to make it wider, I don't know what you have to spend but I bet when I was done I could have bought a trailer for the same price with warranty.... Good luck
Reply:you would have to cut off the front hitch part and make it a 3 tube front and run the tubes at least 8 feet back into the trailer. I bet this trailer is very stiff cause of how its built but it cant take much of a load cause the steel will wrinkle when pushed passed the limit. very little give till it fails Think about it this way i trailed my motorcycle across the US I had it tied down on the kick stand bike weight 380lbs ish  me 220lb plus rider on back 120-140 told weight =740 kick stand never broken in 10k  miles of static weight on it.   with  just the weight of the bike and the bouncing of going down the road the kick stand broke with in a few hundred miles and the bike bounced around in the trailer.  static load is nothing trailer will hold no questions. THE   DYNAMIC LOADS will cause it to fail fast with out a lot of work
Reply:Yeah I'm sure I could probably buy one for what I will have in this one. My benefit is that I can spread this out as long as needed, no interest and no monthly obligations.
Reply:http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado-1...kup-truck.htmlhttp://www.toyota.com/tundra/feature...8252/8275/8276http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/#ram_1500all half ton's all with 10,000 or greater bumper towing capabilities. that's all the big names save Nissan who's tops out at 9500. Now, if you're talking tongue weight, that is a totally different story. but that's not what your post read like to me.My '05 Chevy Trail blazer can two 5500 without a WD Hitch and 7000 with it. it's a half ton frame but doesn't have the truck springs, shocks, and breaks to handle the larger loads.Last edited by ThorsHammer; 11-12-2013 at 05:50 PM.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:The bed on my trailer is 16 ft and i tow that with my Tundra all the time in fact the pic is a job i did in devore ca and i towed it with the tundra because the 59 3/4 ton uses to much fuelBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI also dare you to turn the last 3 feet of the frame on my truck into a pretzel with only 500 lbs of weight. It's a 550 class truck and the receiver is rated at 18K, 1800 lb tongue weight. The truck is rated to tow a full sized backhoe if I wanted and not need to go with a gooseneck or 5th wheel. A 4K pallet of roofing shingles on the *** end of the truck didn't even get the truck to squat one bit.
Reply:Originally Posted by dilligaf241I just went and re-measured the frame and the length without the tongue is 28 feet. The center of the middle axle hanger is 17' or so. That puts it almost dead on 60/40 split. I also found a place to check the thickness of the I beam center and it's corrugated 1/8" thick solid.
Reply:CEP I gotta say that is ONE HONKIN' HUGE GOOSENECK ADD-ON on the little trailer  That's about what you'd have on a 24K gvw trailerWOW!!!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:An engineer friend of mine ran the numbers, he said it was good for 35,000-pounds! I don't remember if he said at what safety factor.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPAn engineer friend of mine ran the numbers, he said it was good for 35,000-pounds! I don't remember if he said at what safety factor.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drew2010Do you have any more pics of that setup? is that neck removable?
Reply:ok, the goose neck just went from cool to freakin AWESOME! question though, what's the weight load of the axles, and where does the need for the goose neck come in?There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Thanks! They say one advantage to gooseneck trailers, is up to 20% of the trailer weight is applied to the truck.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:CEP does that adapater use the bolts only, or is there some form of ball hitch on there at well that utilizes the one on the trailer?Bruce
Reply:Yes I used the original coupler on the trailer. I welded a 2 5/16-inch ball to the gooseneck frame. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:WOW you have some crazy skills do you have any plans for that goose neck ? whats that thing weigh ?
Reply:“WOW you have some crazy skills”Now you're just having fun with me.“do you have any plans for that goose neck”Only use it for heavy loads, which doesn't happen a lot. I mostly use my dump trailer.“whats that thing weigh”I remember weighing it down at the local gravel yard, but I forget what it weighs now. Seems as just over 1,000-pounds. The bigger beams are 12” x 15-pound.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400