Anchoring hand railings...

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I have a chance to build some railings for a home builder.  I am very familiar with building rails but I have never had to anchor them in the material in the pictures.  Since there is a wealth of knowledge here, I knew I could get some good advice.  TIA Attached ImagesECAVE Still learnin'Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135SPHF ChopsawVictor O/ANumerous other items
Reply:What is under the tread? Is it fixed?Sent from my SPH-M830 using Tapatalk
Reply:Caps look like bluestone. Risers look like "lick'em and stick'em"  veneer, possibly over block or crete.  I'm tempted to say block because that's what it looks like in the background, but I've seen block walls with poured steps fairly frequently. If the underlying steps are crete, I'd core into that and set posts, or use long anchors or bolts to go thru the capping into the base. Down side is this will set your posts back probably 4" to 6" from the edge of riser at a minimum to go into solid crete. If it is block, I'd want to talk to the mason about how he set them. Coring is a possibility if you can get into a hollow and grout it up. Core the holes, don't use a hammer drill and hammer bits or you'll blow the cap apart.If you use a large base plate on the posts, you might get away with tapcons in the stone, but that wouldn't be my choice. Too much side pressure and you'd pull the tapcons out or bust the corner off the stone. Best bet is to avoid the stairs entirely. Anchor to the wall up top and to the "landing" at the bottom of the steps, even if you have to dig and pour to set the newel post in dirt..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWBest bet is to avoid the stairs entirely. Anchor to the wall up top and to the "landing" at the bottom of the steps, even if you have to dig and pour to set the newel post in dirt.
Reply:Vinyl siding isn't a huge deal. It's whats under it that matters. If they used plywood or OSB for sheathing, screws will hold just fine. If they haven't done the drywall inside, you can probably get them to put in 2x blocking. Big development homes though use cardboard or foam board for sheathing and if you don't hit  stud, you are F'd. In a pinch I've pulled the siding down, cut out the cardboard carefully and installed blocking, then put everything back up.  Foam board is easier as you can just cut out a piece and replace it with plywood. It's much better if they do it right from the beginning.Job looks like a typical poorly detailed and run builders job. GC should be able to tell you how they built the wall and what they used for sheathing. A good builder plans in advance for these sorts of things and puts in blocking or plywood where you need to attach railings, towel bars etc. Sadly there aren't many guys around who look ahead at the other subs and help make everyones job easier..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Very true DSW.. I am beginning to think that the railings are an afterthought since there are only three treads and I just received an email from the builder saying he needed them ASAP.  I will ask him about construction of the masonry and the wall.  Thanks.ECAVE Still learnin'Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135SPHF ChopsawVictor O/ANumerous other items
Reply:core drill it rocktite done. that bluestone got a nice chip in it if those are new stairs I wouldn,t except that.JMO.
Reply:3 steps means 4 risers and that calls for a grab rail by code even if the total height isn't above 30". My guess is they didn't find this out until either the inspector wandered by doing another inspection for one of the trades on site, or more likely it's for the occupancy inspection.I once had an inspector tell me to just push up the dirt and bury the lower step to eliminate a riser when the customer balked at a hand rail for the back door. Sadly it was all decorative stamp work and that wasn't an option. They got a fast wooden grab rail to get them thru the occupancy inspection, then we got paid to rip it out and patch up the holes. Needless to say we didn't put in many attachment points knowing we were going to take the rail down ASAP. All the inspector cared about was there was a rail there. I could have probably held it up with double sided sticky tape and gotten it passed..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I would build them so the posts are set in holes in the ground and concreted.
Reply:Walk away on this one.
Reply:I dont see any siding as was mentioned by another poster. Chances are, what you have is block or cast concrete step with the other decorative crap adhered on top or the sides. If you want a good chance of it holding you are going to need to either make sure your anchors reach into the substrate, or core drill it. I would go with core drilling on this one.It will likely cost you $200-$300 to have someone core drill for you, then set the fabbed up rail in one piece. I got tired not getting small rail jobs because of the high cost of coring only a few holes, or giving a lot of the job money to the core driller, so I just bought my own core drill. I'll let you know on Tuesdayhow it went and if it was worth it.
Reply:Originally Posted by BEYTILLWalk away on this one.
Reply:I don't see any reason to walk away. The OP just needs to know what was done by the other subs so he can plan accordingly. Job isn't all that hard, but it could have been a cake walk if someone had simply thought ahead just a tiny bit..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW3 steps means 4 risers
Reply:Depends how the inspector reads the code. Inspectors around here read it as any vertical attached to the steps, so 3 treads to say a landing would equal 4 risers. My guess is that they view the riser as coming 1st, then  the tread, since without a riser, you don't have a "tread" but a walkway.  If the landing is bigger than 3', then you get to start over from 0 again.In reality it doesn't matter since the inspector is always "right", no matter how wrong he is. Even if you fight and "win" you usually end up loosing in the long run. I've seen them demand all sorts of stupid things simply because they think it's right or because the can..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for all the feedback.  I have a friend with a core drill that is going to help me with this install.  I had to update the quote a little, but I still got the job.Thanks again.ECAVE Still learnin'Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135SPHF ChopsawVictor O/ANumerous other items
Reply:Do you need insurance for this. I would imagine so for code purposes. I had someone call me the other day to fabricate some rails and install on an addition and where the mason just finished the steps. I have not done them and I know I can but to be fair to the homeowner I passed on the job. It was the town I live in and the inspectors are crabs. I did not want to deal with them as I have before on my own permits for my own home.T.J.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:That is my concern right now.  I believe I can get it worked out...maybe.ECAVE Still learnin'Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135SPHF ChopsawVictor O/ANumerous other items
Reply:It is different in every state. Here you have to have a contractors license, a bond, and insurance, and have a transaction privilege tax license in order to weld anything on a house and charge for it. There is a handy man exemption for small jobs (under $750 IIRC).