Frame mod question

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Need some advice from the experts. I'm finishing up the "shoe horning" of a 97 Powerstroke into a 58 Chevy truck and I'm trying to get the engine as centered in the frame as possible. I have the engine tucked in there nicely, but I'm off center to the passenger side by 3/4 inch. The obstacle that has me pushed 3/4 inch to the passenger side is the steering box. if I could move the steering box just a 1/4 inch I'd be able to get the engine about 1/2 inch off center which I'd be much happier with. This truck has a carrier bearing mid way down the driveshaft, so I beleive a 1/2 inch could be compenstated easily at the carrier.My thought is to cut out an oval in the frame web where the steering box bolts to (box attaches on the inside of the frame rail) and make a fish plate about 1/2 inch bigger all around with the holes for the steering box drilled in. I would then weld the plate on both the outside and inside of the frame rail. This would set the steering box a full 1/4" away from the engine. My plan is to use 5/16" plate for the fish plate.Is this an advisable approach to gaining a little more space to slide the engine over ?? Attached Images
Reply:Or go to rack and pinion.
Reply:Is it that you just can't live with the idea of the engine being offset the 3/4" or is it causing a problem elsewhere?Engines offset slightly from chassis centerline is nothing new and yes the carrier bearing and u-joint will compensate.  Going side-to-side is no different than a change in elevation from front to back and often the rear axle pinion is offset from centerline anyway which would be the same thing.Give me detailed u-joint locations from a common data point, shaft lengths and engine/axle angles and I'll run a driveline analysis for you.  PM me an email address and I'll send you the layout sheet to fill out.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:But I should add, I can't get it to you until next week as I don't have the program on this laptop and I'm San Antonio all week.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Thanks guys. Duane I sent a PM.I'm working on a medium duty class truck (2.5 ton) so I can't use the lighter steering options that are commercially available for the mid 50's pickup trucks. I've looked at options of other meduim duty power steering boxes from the 70's and 80's that would mount on the outside of the frame rail, but there's not enough room within the wheel well to mount one without the tire hitting it. I'm running 10R22.5 tires that fill the front area of the truck.I'm trying to avoid a steering retro-fit to swap this engine in. The truck steers easily now despite the manual box and drives a straight line without any wandering. Another option I have is to mill 1/8 inch off the mounting surface of the steering box which would free up some extra clearance where I currently have the engine placed. I pulled the steering box from the scrap truck I'm working on and the milling can easily be done.Getting the engine centered would help with space for the exhaust down pipe, but I've mostly resolved that at this point. So if I have to live with the 3/4 inch off center, then that's what it will be.
Reply:Are you accounting for engine movement when running? Sure it's not going to hit when u accelerate under load or let off?Sent w/ Tapatalk using Swype, pls excuse typosTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by markfugaThanks guys. Duane I sent a PM.
Reply:Those Ford engines are offset from the factory in the light duty trucks, Ever notice how the passenger has way less foot room than the driver? Your driveshaft should be able to handle 3/4" of lateral offset without any trouble, especially if the shaft is fairly long like I imagine it being in a medium duty chassis. If the 3/4" isn't causing you any trouble I'd leave it and keep clearance around the steering box. Factory offsets them a few inches without trouble. You could also twist the engine slightly to get the output shaft closer to the center line of the truck and keep the front of the engine slightly to the passenger side.
Reply:just to verify, wouldn't moving the steering box cause issues with the steering linkage? I think you're better off with the 3/4" offset than redoing the entire steering system to gain 1/4". Just my thoughts.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:But, doesn't this truck have a gear and column that are all one - no rag joint?With a "peeled" frame flange for clearance?Granted, 5/16" isn't much, but still, if moving the box outboard, then the proximity of "peel" and column may have to be dealt with too.Any pics?Last edited by denrep; 10-28-2013 at 03:32 PM.
Reply:Ever get so hung up on a single detail that you literally spend weeks trying to perfect it, moving, sliding, shifting, only to end up back where you started? That never happens to me I'm ready to concede that 3/4 inch off center is the optimal placement. The engine does have ample room for movement, acceleration, deceleration, and poor tuning/bad miss. If I move it a quarter inch to the driver's side I'll lose about half the clearance, hence the reason I was considering moving the steering box. I'm trying to minimize alterations to fit this engine in there, so 3/4 inch it is and now I can move onto the next task. Hopefully Duane's analysis next week can further put my anxieties to rest.
Reply:What's the clearance issue, manifold?Maybe there's another workaround, but without details we're all just speculating.
Reply:Well, technically, the issue is me.I beleive the fit is more than adequate at this point. I have a full 1/4 inch clearance all around the steering box, and with the angle of the side of the box and the angle of the exhaust manifold, any engine twist should not be a problem. But... I'm always trying to squeeze another 1/8 inch of extra clearance any where I can. Things appear tighter in these pics than they actually are, I took a piece of 1/4" flat and slid it all around in there. I'll also replace the square raised plug in the steering box with a flush hex plug. First pic is from underneath looking up.You're correct in your description of the box, one piece unit up to the steering wheel and frame peeled up where box sets in. What I didn't notice prior to this thread is the frame is also "divited" on the web so my idea of the fishplate would not work. the divet appears to adjust the box angle relative to the frame.I'll also need to peel down the passenger side frame rail just a bit to give a little more clearnace on that side (white line, last pic). That's an easy adjustment that will take 5 minutes. Attached Images
Reply:In my opinion, I don't see it as a problem ccoutting the oval out of the frame and putting the plate over it.  Whether it causes other problems with the steering components I couldn't tell you.
Reply:Keep in mind with a carrier bearing you have a lot of possible movement or placement options.If the carrier to diff is straight, move the carrier to the side to get both halves of the drive shaft at the same angle.  I would agree though, 3/4" is not a lot.What direction does the engine rotate?The passenger side may not be much of an issue.  Standing in front of the truck facing the front of the engine.  If it rotates clockwise the passenger side should lift, and the driverside should go down.So your passenger side frame may not be as much of an issue.
Reply:Looks tight, but clear.Maybe grind a touch off each?Might think about a heat shield; looks like the gear's gonna get plenty warm.
Reply:I appreciate all the feedback.Looking at the engine from the front, the crank spins clockwise, so the block will spin counter-clockwise (towards the passenger side). The passenger side exhaust manifold is over the frame rail so there's a high probability it will bang against the frame in moderate to extreme conditions. The drivers side manifold is along side the steering box so it would take a hard side jolt for it to make contact.Grinding the side of the steering box is one idea I had been kicking around and will probably do. The walls are 1/4" thick, so I'll take close to an 1/8" off in the area around the manifold. A heat shield is also on the list of things to do in that area.This is the last big issue I needed to get past so I appreciate the advice. The frame pictured above is my "practice truck" that I bought at the junk yard (just the front frame section to past the cab) so now I feel ready to do it all "for real" on my truck. I wanted to be sure I could fit the engine/transmission combo in there before taking a torch to mine. The goal is to finish the swap this winter and be ready for spring driving.
Reply:Mark,Finally sent you the driveline layout sheet via email as promised.DuaneMM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTOr go to rack and pinion.
Reply:Can you raise the motor and trans a half an inch.  That might add a little clearance.Mark