Small 50amp welder, what rods?

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I'm a novice welder, though getting better every time I try.  I just got an auto-darkening Hobart helmet for Christmas so hopefully that will help me hone my skills.I'm welding using a 50amp 110v buzz box.  It seems to like the 1/16" 6013 rods I've been using pretty well.  I've thought about getting some 5/64" 6013 or 3/32" 6011 as those both seem to be in the 50amp range according to some charts I found online.  What do you folks think?  I need AC rods because it doesn't do DC.  Also it doesn't adjust amperage, it's just on or off.What size steel should I be able to weld?  I've been told everything from "you can't weld anything with that" to "with proper 400F or better preheating you could weld 1/4" plate steel".  I'd imagine somewhere between the two to be the actual truth.Thanks guys!
Reply:I doubt you will have the power to use a 3/32" rod well if at all, because you will be at max output.
Reply:5/ 64th or 1/16 6013 is probably only ror you will be able to use. I would not try to weld anything more than 1/8 thick steel.Miller Trailblazer 280 ntS 22 p 12 suitcase wire feeder Miller high frequency box dynasty 200 Millermatic 252 Millermatic 211 Miller XMT 300 Miller spectrum 2050 plasma cutter Cutmaster 42 plasma cutter. Miller dynasty 350
Reply:5/ 64th or 1/16 6013 is probably only rod you will be able to use. I would not try to weld anything more than 1/8 thick steel.Miller Trailblazer 280 ntS 22 p 12 suitcase wire feeder Miller high frequency box dynasty 200 Millermatic 252 Millermatic 211 Miller XMT 300 Miller spectrum 2050 plasma cutter Cutmaster 42 plasma cutter. Miller dynasty 350
Reply:1/16 size rod will be max for that little machine.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Do yourself a favor.  Dump that 50a 110v toy and go buy at bare minimum a Lincoln AC-225 buzz box from Home Depot or Lowes if that's all you can afford right now.  Nothing wrong with that.   With your current set up, you'll only be able to weld together mom's old knives & forks and broken paper clips...  maybe.   Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:I actually have one of those little fixed 50amp stick welders that is powered by 115 volt (paid $8 for it at a garage sale a couple decades ago).5/64" 6013 and 1/16" 7014 are the only 2 rods that I can use successfully with it (and I tried several as it was my first welder).  If you use these 2 choices you just might be surprised what you can weld with it.  (note:  Just do not weld anything overly critical with it and do NOT expect to build a trailer with it - but it can certainly fix and build some some things if it is all you have).  With these 2 choices you are at least somewhat close to the ideal one and only 50 amp choice that you have and can make your fine tune tweak adjustments with arc length and travel speed.  While it will also run 1/16" 6013 I simply have never liked any weld produced from 1/16" 6013.For 5/64" 6013:  I like US Forge Easy strike brand best (available at Menard's).  I also like Forney too but Forney no longer manufacturers their own rods so crapshoot on what you will get since it will depend on who Forney outsourced as vendor.  (note:  Lincoln also makes a 5/64 size in 6013 but I have not used it since Lincoln charges a premium for the 5/64" diameter.  5/64" is an oddball size and will not be available everywhere and price per pound may be a bit higher than other diameters but worth it if you plan to use this welder.  5/64 is by far my favorite rod to use with this welder).For 1/16" 7014:   I like Quickstrike brand (Harbor Freight sells and this is the absolute only Harbor Freight welding consumable that I will buy as most other consumables are crap).  US Forge has a similar offering too (again available at Menard's) that is probably even a better choice.  Regardess for any 1/16" diameter rod I like them to be short because they are flimsy if normal length.  The HF or US Forge rods are shorter than normal and makes them easier to use.Forget 6011 with you welder:  You do not have enough oomp for 3/32" diameter (I tried).  Hobart makes a 1/16" 6011 but they are long rods so very flimsy.  Even if you cut them in half you will likely still have issues. 50 amps is actually too much for 1/16" 6011.   6011 is not a contact rod and you must maintain approximately half a rod diameter rod gap from work surface at all times.  Hard to maintain a tiny 1/32" rod gap with a 1/16" flexible noodle that is flexing like crazy and especially since are actually overpowering it with your one and only 50 amp setting.  Expect lots of stuck rods and frustration but you are welcome to prove me wrong.As for how thick you gonna weld?  Well that depends on joint design and how many passes you are willing to make.  You can improvise with beveling a joint and then making multiple passes for the occasional thick metal joint.  That said 1/8" thick metal and maybe some 316" thick in a pinch is about all you can hope for on a single pass joint.  That sounds wimpy of course, but is no worse than you would get out of a high dollar 115 volt mig unit either.  So in comparison not too bad for what it is that you are using for a power unit - which is a bottom of the barrel cheapie.Last edited by rankrank1; 12-30-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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Reply:Originally Posted by Kelvin
Reply:From one "apsiring" welder to another, you are going to have a very hard time learning on that equipment. When I first started learning, I tried going down to 3/32" rods on 1/8" metal because I figured cheaper rods and cheaper scrap meant I could learn more for the same price. I was wrong. 1/8" rods on 3/16" or 1/4" metal is like "big crayons". Smaller rods on thinner metal requires more finesse, which a new weldor just doesn't have. If you learn to operate that machine with 1/16" rods, eventually, you will be very, very good with a bigger machine on larger rods, but in the mean time, it is going to take you forever to get anywhere, because you are going to be fighting your equipment every step of the way. I'm not a snob, and I understand not everybody has tons of money to throw around, but you really, seriously, need a better welder if you want to get anywhere. For $100-$200, you can get a used 200-amp (or thereabouts) AC "buzzbox" off of Craigslist and be ready to rock and roll. If you are lucky, you may be able to score an AC/DC machine for a similar price, and be really set, as the DC arc will give you access to a wider variety of rods and be a lot easier to work with overall.For the time being, keep practicing with your current welder, but the very next piece of equipment you buy should be a better welder. IMO.If you are stuck at 110v, then you can still do a little better than 50 amps, but not much. If you had a lot more money to throw around (like, in the $300-400 range), you could look at an inverter-based welder, which will produce more output on less input than a transformer-based welder. An inverter-based unit might get you up to 85 or 90 amps, for example. But 220v is going to really be where it's at.Last edited by joshuabardwell; 12-30-2012 at 02:21 PM.
Reply:My first welder was like that and I had to use very small and short rods( I forget now). Was great on sheet metal. I did quarter panels and other stuff, as well as my buddies borrowed it too.We all had "toys" back then (muscle cars actually). Good luck and have fun (it can be used to do a lot more than some folks say it will do).Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Great info guys, I'll forget about the 3/32" 6011 rod then and hunt down some 5/64" 6013.  Rod flex is probably the biggest issue I've had with this - 1/16" rods flex really easy and it makes it hard to maintain a proper arc!  That said, I've gotten relatively good with it and have repaired (successfully) a bulkhead door (welded the hinge back on after it rusted off), an office chair that the seat broke off the post that goes up and down as well as a few hand tools (shovels etc).  All this was done with 1/16" 6013 and a flip up/down $20 helmet.  I got a Hobart auto-darkening helmet for Christmas and that should help a lot as my other big issue was starting my welds properly.  It's hard to do blind - which is what I am unless in super bright light once the shield is down till you start the arc and you can see again.
Reply:Rod flex will be greatly improved with the 5/64" diameter brands that I mentioned in my earlier post as they are slightly shorter than standard lengths which greatly helps plus your one and only welder 50 amp setting is close to ideal for running this size rod.  (I think this will be you favorite rod to use with this welder)Also make sure you try either of the 1/16" 7014 brands that I mentioned.  While they will flex some it will not matter as much with 7014 since it is a contact rod and almost welds itself (idiot rod so to speak as 7014 is so easy to use).    The brands that I mentioned will also be slightly shorter than standard length which helps with rod flex.  7014 is usually by far the easiest rod for any newbie with a cheap AC welder to use.  Unfortunately you simply do not have enough oomph to run any other size of 7014 except 1/16" as 7014 likes amps over other rod types.    Again your one and only 50 amp welder setting is close to ideal for 1/16" 7014 for either of the 2 brands that I mentioned.  (I think this will be your second favorite rod to use with this welder.  Your choice of which rod you use 5/64" 6013 or 1/16" 7014 will depend on thickness of metal you are trying to weld).Once you use my first 2 rod recommendations and get some practice under you belt, I imagine that you will rarely use the 1/16" 6013 much.  1/16" 6013 likes to be run more around 30-40 amps on a quality welder and rarely runs well at 30-40 amps on a cheapie welder - even if you had that setting which of course you do not.  I never could get decent welds with 1/16" 6013 on my little cheapie welder.  That said they will run decent on DC on my Miller Thunderbolt which is a major upgrade as far welder power source but that is another story.Lastly you maybe wondering why I am being so brand specific with the brands of rod.  Well all brands of rod burn slightly different.  Usually no big deal though if you have an adjustable welder as you can tune the welder amps to suit the rods but it is a big deal if you a a fixed setting welder like you do or even an adjustable welder that has tapped settings of 15-20 amp large increment jumps.  In short, once you find a brand of rod that works well on an actual setting that is available on your particular welder then that brand is a keeper.  Another brand of the same supposed rod type simply may not burn as well on a setting that you actually have available on your welder.Last edited by rankrank1; 01-01-2013 at 11:18 AM.
Reply:You will have a lot more fun and learn faster if you "upgrade."  I learned with the same tombstone style that many people on this site did.  They are a steal on craigslist - prices from $75 to $250.  The ac/dc version is even better, and about the same price.I did not upgrade to industrial type welders until over 15 years later.Old stuff works great, here is a pic of my first TIG setup - and that old Forney welds aluminum great    (just got my first real TIG last week) Attached ImagesDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:My 15 year old son is learning on one of these and really likes it Attached ImagesDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveMy 15 year old son is learning on one of these and really likes it
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcDitto with my 11yr old.  Except trying to find safety equipment that fits his face and hands has been a nightmare.  I can't find small enough gloves that offer protection and flexibility for him.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcDitto with my 11yr old.  Except trying to find safety equipment that fits his face and hands has been a nightmare.  I can't find small enough gloves that offer protection and flexibility for him.
Reply:Originally Posted by rankrank1...Your choice of which rod you use 5/64" 6013 or 1/16" 7014 will depend on thickness of metal you are trying to weld).
Reply:"Thicker" is going to be relative with that little machine. 3/16" is probably the most you can expect to get decent welds on, and that's still probably pushing it. That machine is very limiting unfortunately.A more powerful stick machine would really help you out.I'd see what runs the best and use that myself. 6013 I find some what more of a pain to run than 7014, so i'd probably opt for 7014 myself. You might find the slightly larger rods easier to work with though, so it's still sort of a toss up..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85So which would be better for thicker metal, the 5/64" 6013 or the 1/16" 7014?  I appreciate all the help.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou can order most Tillman gloves in "small". My LWS keeps one or two versions of the thin tig gloves in stock for the girls who go to the tech schools. I have them order in my mig gloves in Medium since I have smaller hands. Find a style you like and then see if you can't get a pair in is Small and see how well they fit. You might try the Tillman 42's IIRC. They are a "mig" glove with a fair amount of flexibility, but they still have a decent amount of lining for heat protection. They are my "go to" glove for most things at the tech school, though I do bring both a set of tig gloves and my heavy cutting and stick gloves as well.Headgear can be a bit more problematic and you might just have to go and try on several models to see what will adjust down far enough for him.
Reply:Originally Posted by rankrank1Get both - you are only talking like $5 or so a pack.  There will be some joint designs that you like 5/64" 6013 better (majority of time I expect)and some others that you will like the 1/16" 7014 better.  Really with your welder changing out between these 2 rods is the only variable that you can change (outside of technique) so you need both these rods in my opinion.You can theoretically weld as thick as you want to go with either rod (and even a welder smaller than yours for that matter).  But doing thicker metal than say 1/8" metal or 3/16" metal at an absolute iffy maximum with your welder will definitely mandate proper joint design (i.e. beveling) and multiple pass build ups.  Multiple pass overlaps will take some time with only a 1/16" rod diameter but if you are willing to put in that time then certainly doable.  5/64" diameter will overlap a tad faster but will still be slow.  On the other hand I prefer 7014 over 6013 but I prefer 5/64 over 1/16 for less rod flex so it will just depend.  For the most part, I hate 1/16" diameter rods but the easiness of which 7014 burns makes it at least somewhat tolerable.Actually, When you get to pushing the practical limit on thinness of metal that any arc welder can weld (typically 16-18 gauge is about as thin of metal that even a skilled expert can weld with a stick arc welder) is more likely the time that you may really prefer the 1/16" 7014 over the 5/64" 6013.  Typically thin metals are where wire feeders excel but you use what you have.  On the really thin stuff I expect the 1/16 7014" to be less likely to burn through but it will take practice to get there.  Regardless try both and see.Have fun with it and remember do not weld anything critical until your skills are up to the task.  What I deem as "critical" welds are any welds that break would they injure either you or some other innocent person?  If no,weld away.  If yes, have someone who knows what they are doing make that repair.
Reply:One question, let's say I want to weld some 1/8" and have a real strong weld.  Would it make sense to run some 1/16" 6013 for the root pass so it burns in really well, then cap it with 1/16" 7014 (I've heard it makes a real nice looking cap)?  Or would it make more sense to just run 5/64" 6013 for the whole thing?To get an idea these are the types of things I will be working on:Fixing the sides to a garden tractor's yard trailer (~16 gauge or so)Repairing steel shovels (maybe 1/16" thick I guess?)Patch on my truck's frame to cover a rust hole (1/8" frame, 1/8" patch)What rods should I use for each of those scenarios?Last edited by joecool85; 01-08-2013 at 09:00 AM.
Reply:6013 is a light penetrating rod, so it really won't make any difference vs say 7014 that's a medium to light penetrating rod. I'd simply use the rod that you run best for the small trailer or the shovel.A few things about the truck frame... Newer vehicle frames really aren't meant to be welded. There's a lot more to welding them up then the average person is set up to do. Most use high tensile or heat treated frames that require specialized procedures and filler. #2 you can't weld to rust. In most cases the rust goes much farther than you realize once it actually rusts thru. The  right way to do a "repair" of this sort is to blast the frame and strip all the rust back, so you can really examine the base metal and determine the extent of the issue. Many times this requires you strip the frame, but chances are once you see the extent of the damage, you'll be replacing the whole frame anyways.Last issue with this is the fact you really aren't yet ready to do welds out of position I'm betting, especially vertical. Most new guys have major issues with undercutting when trying to attempt vertical welds. All that undercutting will weaken the frame at the weld. There's a very good chance you can actually do more damage than you "fix". Welding on structural parts of a vehicle is a bad idea unless you can make code quality welds every time in all positions. It will take you a while to get there even with a lot of good practice..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald ReaganOriginally Posted by DSW6013 is a light penetrating rod, so it really won't make any difference vs say 7014 that's a medium to light penetrating rod. I'd simply use the rod that you run best for the small trailer or the shovel.A few things about the truck frame... Newer vehicle frames really aren't meant to be welded. There's a lot more to welding them up then the average person is set up to do. Most use high tensile or heat treated frames that require specialized procedures and filler. #2 you can't weld to rust. In most cases the rust goes much farther than you realize once it actually rusts thru. The  right way to do a "repair" of this sort is to blast the frame and strip all the rust back, so you can really examine the base metal and determine the extent of the issue. Many times this requires you strip the frame, but chances are once you see the extent of the damage, you'll be replacing the whole frame anyways.Last issue with this is the fact you really aren't yet ready to do welds out of position I'm betting, especially vertical. Most new guys have major issues with undercutting when trying to attempt vertical welds. All that undercutting will weaken the frame at the weld. There's a very good chance you can actually do more damage than you "fix". Welding on structural parts of a vehicle is a bad idea unless you can make code quality welds every time in all positions. It will take you a while to get there even with a lot of good practice.
Reply:5/64" would let you run more amps, and thus get more penetration everything else being equal. It would be the amps that would really make the difference assuming the same rod type.If you really needed more penetration, then you might choose 6011 which is a deep penetrating rod over 7014 or 6013. 6011 also usually runs at lower amps than the other two, so you might be able to run a slightly larger rod as well as getting more penetration.Everything else being equal, 7014 would give you a stronger weld since the rod is a 70K rod vs only a 60K rod for the other two. 7018 would have the same approximate tensile strength, but it's usually a "tougher" rod and takes more abuse.You might find this post by CEP to help somewhat. Look at how many hammer blows it took to break each weld. 7018 taking the most, 7014 falling in the middle, and 6011 falling at the bottom. This "test" shows toughness or impact resistance of different rods.http://weldingweb.com/showpost.php?p=935021&postcount=4.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Wow, 6013 only 3 blows while 7014 took 10!I'll end up trying both the 5/64" 6013 as well as the 1/16" 7014 but assuming I like the way the 7014 runs I may stick with that.
Reply:I second DSW and it can't be said enough times.  New welders should not do structural welding on vehicles nor trailers.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI second DSW and it can't be said enough times.  New welders should not do structural welding on vehicles nor trailers.
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85That said, I should be ok to do a headache rack for the back of my truck right?  It's on a vehicle but not structural and I would test the weld strength via 3lb hammer blows etc to make sure it seems real solid before bolting it onto the truck.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAssuming you don't plan to load insane amounts of weight on it or try to build it out of super heavy materials, you should be fine. The machine is a bit light in output for what I would probably prefer, but it will do the job with proper prep.Personally I'm not the greatest fan of the "hammer" test as it really doesn't show all that much many times. I do realize it's the best "test" many new guys have available, but it really doesn't give you as much real feed back as many think.
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85Wow, 6013 only 3 blows while 7014 took 10!I'll end up trying both the 5/64" 6013 as well as the 1/16" 7014 but assuming I like the way the 7014 runs I may stick with that.
Reply:Originally Posted by rankrank1As for strength and penetration you will notice little difference on the type of stuff that your skill set and that crappy little welder should be welding (again no car frames or anything critical). Either rod choice is much stronger than brazing and look at all the stuff that is repaired with braze.  The little crappy welder can do quite a bit if the expectations are kept reasonable and appropriate.
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85Honestly the biggest reason for the rack on my truck is so I don't break one of my sliding windows throwing in pieces of firewood.  I'm also thinking that I could use it as a strapping point if I have a fridge in the back etc.
Reply:My first welder was one step better then what you have.  I was a century I picked up from Harbor Freight tools.  My first project was a heat exchanger for a Franklin Stove.  I used 1/16 6011 and had the exchanger tacked together but after an hour of welding the welder just melted.You really need a 220 AC machine to do much of anything.
Reply:Guys you keep saying dump the machine ... He may not want to become a pro and just want to play/fix stuff. Thats ok. That is the same kind of machine I started with and have ended up going up twice. I still like to play and have so for better than 30 years. I have No interest in tig, hate mig and just like to use my 225 amp buzz box. I have built myself lots of stuff but post pictures of nothing. When I started here I spent weeks reading back posts. I went back YEARS. I wanted to learn more and get better and pick brains. I wish I didnt sell my little 50 it was fun to play with (I even patched a friends trailer so he got it home at 3 am in a coffee shop parking lot( We were in our 20's)). Perhaps I find another one some day. Have fun with it dude. I still keep 5 LBS. of those tiny rods for fixin real thin stuff.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcThe statement above is what scares me about a "50 amp" Hong Kong welder.  Thinking you're going to get a weld that is strong enough to strap down a fridge while maybe taking a corner quickly or hitting the brakes hard will stress a "50 amp weld bead."  Same goes with tossing a wooden tree trunk log and hitting a headache rack might crack a weak weld too.   I believe the experts here about the multiple passes being "better," etc...  However,  no offense to you joecool85,  but an inexperienced stick welder with a weak machine, coupled with multiple passes equals some  bloody ugly welds.  Those welds are gonna look more  like freshly hacked up and blown, desert-camel booger sugar!
Reply:Originally Posted by dumb as a stumpGuys you keep saying dump the machine ... He may not want to become a pro and just want to play/fix stuff. Thats ok. That is the same kind of machine I started with and have ended up going up twice. I still like to play and have so for better than 30 years. I have No interest in tig, hate mig and just like to use my 225 amp buzz box. I have built myself lots of stuff but post pictures of nothing. When I started here I spent weeks reading back posts. I went back YEARS. I wanted to learn more and get better and pick brains. I wish I didnt sell my little 50 it was fun to play with (I even patched a friends trailer so he got it home at 3 am in a coffee shop parking lot( We were in our 20's)). Perhaps I find another one some day. Have fun with it dude. I still keep 5 LBS. of those tiny rods for fixin real thin stuff.
Reply:Thanks so much for the help guys.  Between my new auto-tint helmet and the 1/16 7014 I picked up I realized I can actually weld!  Now, I'm still new and not very good, but I can stick two pieces of metal together without wasting too much time...which is more than I can say for when I was using the 1/16 6013.  That said, I am getting frustrated with the 1/16 rods being so wiggly when full length.  I think I might try snipping some in half.  I have SO much more control when they get down to 1/2 or even 1/3 of original length.It does make me want a bigger welder though...I'm hooked.
Reply:There's no problem with shortening rods. I usually just use a pair of linemans pliers to remove the flux from the end after i cut one down..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If the OP dumps that 50A machine, he could buy a buzz box and have a weld range between 40-225 amps.  He gets the best of both worlds that way.  He can still play with those 5/64's and 1/16 rods all he wants.  However, I doubt he'll keep those once he realizes his machine can also do 3/32's and up and produce nicer welds.  I saw a used Limcoln AC-225 for $40.00 about a week ago on CL.    I should have bought it just for the killer brass ground clamp and the 10lb's of 6011 the guy was throwing in. "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:Originally Posted by ANVILIf the OP dumps that 50A machine, he could buy a buzz box and have a weld range between 40-225 amps.  He gets the best of both worlds that way.  He can still play with those 5/64's and 1/16 rods all he wants.  However, I doubt he'll keep those once he realizes his machine can also do 3/32's and up and produce nicer welds.  I saw a used Limcoln AC-225 for $40.00 about a week ago on CL.    I should have bought it just for the killer brass ground clamp and the 10lb's of 6011 the guy was throwing in.
Reply:Keep your eyes open for deals.  I got a barely-used Thermal Arc Dragster 85 with two complete sets of leads and four boxes of rods for $50.  and a Clarke 130 mig welder with new 5 lb. CO2 bottle, flow meter and 5 spools of wire for $85."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85You're probably right.  Am I right in thinking that you can normally weld down to the size of the rod compared to base metal?  IE - the thinnest base metal you'd want to weld with an 1/8" rod would be 1/8" mild steel?
Reply:Generally what you said is true. Someone recently did post up some very nice lap welds running 5/16" 7018 on 1/8" material, but that's an exception to the general rule and requires a fair bit of skill to pull off well. The fact a lap joint allows you to work with more material, plus the fact they were welding a bit high on the upper plate so they were burning thru both rather than only one, helped them pull it off well.I usually prefer to work with rods that are smaller than the base material, so for 1/8"  steel, I'd probably go with 3/32" rods over 1/8", but I've made 1/8" rods work in the past on several occasions. Rod type also matters as well as amp setting. 1/8" deep penetration rods like 6010/11, run near the top of their suggested amp listing, wouldn't be my 1st choice to run on 1/8" material. I'd rather run a medium to light penetration rod like 708 or 7014 at a medium to low setting given a choice. Also your skill level will play a huge part in if you can pull this off successfully.If I remember right, your machine only puts out 50 amps max. That's no where near enough to run any 1/8" rods, or even most 3/32" rods, so your question is somewhat a moot point. You really need a machine capable of at least 90 amps to run most 3/32" rods, and you probably want  a machine capable of 130-150 maps minimum to run most 1/8" rods.Show us the welds. My guess is you were probably going to fast and didn't let the puddle build. 1/16" rods shouldn't have any issues on 1/8" material if you do your part.Last edited by DSW; 04-01-2013 at 07:36 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I'd show you the welds, but I had to grind them flat for the application (needed a flat surface for the seal to contact on for the lexan window/door).Also, the rod size question regarding 1/8" rods was more of a general welding question, not applicable to my welder.  I know I'm stuck with 1/16" 7014 and 6013 and 5/64" 6013 due to the limitations of my machine. I'll have to post some pics next time I do some welding.  I'll be embarassed no doubt, but hopefully it'll help me get better.
Reply:Also, I see what you guys mean about needing more amps.  This was fine for this project, but it was obvious that the rods weren't burning all the way into the 1/8" steel.  From a guesstimate I think I'd need maybe 75-80amps to really get good penetration.
Reply:I was in the same boat as you a while back, I was stuck with one of the 80 amp inverters from Horrible Freight and it made me not want to weld and just give up on it. I think that's what alot of the low amp machines do, they make you think it's alot harder than it actually is and frustrate you beyond belief. I soon upgraded from that to an old Miller Bobcat I found off of Craigslist for $1,000 and it wasn't the best but it got me a lot of practice with a real welding machine and I fell in love with welding at that point, I eventually sold that one off for more than what I paid for it and bought a 2012 Bobcat with less than 400 hrs. on it for $1700 IIRC. Now i've been in welding school since January 20 of this year and next month I will be out of school with a bunch of certs and getting ready to go back for TIG and metallurgy."Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's Liberty, Teeth, and Keystone under Independence." - George Washington
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85Also, I see what you guys mean about needing more amps.  This was fine for this project, but it was obvious that the rods weren't burning all the way into the 1/8" steel.  From a guesstimate I think I'd need maybe 75-80amps to really get good penetration.