4943 works great

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The new Harley cases are breaking when the young riders do wheelies and slam the front end down this is what I came up with to repair the 2013 Dyna cases......The new style cases only have ONE gusset supporting the front mount where as the earlier Harley cases had two gussets.......Will adding another gusset fix this issue?   We will see I have a stable of young riders doing 65 mph wheelies and they can tear up anything so we will see if my repair works........http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...ps388e5519.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...ps5b79f61c.jpgThe tops and bottoms are set up in the mill and spot faced and cut straight for perfect fit...Last edited by B_C; 09-17-2013 at 01:26 PM.  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:In my opinion, that is how you're supposed to ride a Harley, like you robbed a bank!   Great vid Bill and time will tell on the mod. I cracked a tranny case once in a complete circle right in the center of the tranny, four speed and right through the turtle top. Thank god during the beginning of a rip azz wholeshot. Locked right up but never went down. Could've been ugly.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:4943 works great4943 works great4943 works great4943 works greatWeld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Next B_C is gonna be drinking Micro Brews too!!!  Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawNext B_C is gonna be drinking Micro Brews too!!!
Reply:guess those are not 883s best wheelies are out of corners...--------------------------------------------------------------www.becmotors.nlyup, I quit welding.. joined welder anonymous
Reply:No these cases are from a big twin TC 96 in  motor  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Hey Bill I think it's time to pull the wheelie bars off the drag bike and join the party! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:That's a nice repair that you did. I have a 2011 Dyna Street Bob but I doubt that I will ever do a wheelie with it. I'm afraid that I would lose my amateur standing. LOL. I have a  long history with Harley ownership going back to Knuckleheads. Broken mounts on the front were not uncommon since they were rather small and the engines vibrated a lot. Thus the name "Milwaukee Vibrator". I had a motor mount welded at a truck shop in Chicago when I was but a mere child. It was the left front mount on my 1946 FL. The welder used a gas torch, flux and bare aluminum rod and he did a masterful job. Welding with gas and aluminum rod is not for the faint of heart since you can't really tell by color. Everything looks the same. There's a bit of guessing and poking involved. My bike is a 96" version as well. I didn't even know that they would wheelie. The last time I did a wheelie, I was in a scrambles race at Acton, California riding a 1957 BSA Gold Star. Anyway, that's some nice work!Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Might be kinda scary.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Thanks.......  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:The engine is not a stressed member of the frame on the Harley like it is most other bikes.  If you're breaking engine mounts it may be due to frame flex.  Consider doing things to stiffen the frame.
Reply:B_C, what are the advantages of 4943 compared to say 4043 or 4047?Regards Andrew from Oz.We are Tig welders, gravity doesn't worry us.Miller Dynasty 350. 350 amps of awesomeness.OTC AVP 300 hybrid wave AC/DC inverter tig. (now retired)Kemppi MLS 230 amp for home, a sweet little AC/DC Tig
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC1500The engine is not a stressed member of the frame on the Harley like it is most other bikes.  If you're breaking engine mounts it may be due to frame flex.  Consider doing things to stiffen the frame.
Reply:Its the cases, they break on the dyno (Out of the frame)  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:The 4943 has more tinsel strength like 5356  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:I KNEW BC was awesome all along but now I see he is welding tinsel......Dooood!
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CThe 4943 has more tinsel strength like 5356
Reply:I got this the next day after the cases were repaired, He's giving my Mod. a good testing hope it holds up.....Lots more to do if it works..  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Just got a call from my customer.......The cases failed already, he is sending me some pics now.........Wow that sucks....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CJust got a call from my customer.......The cases failed already, he is sending me some pics now.........Wow that sucks....
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CJust got a call from my customer.......The cases failed already, he is sending me some pics now.........Wow that sucks....
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3I KNEW BC was awesome all along but now I see he is welding tinsel......Dooood!
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabOriginally Posted by B_CJust got a call from my customer.......The cases failed already, he is sending me some pics now.........Wow that sucks....
Reply:Might be the fix is to use heavier aftermarket cases. Much love for HD, but their bean counters rule the roost now and "robust" isn't really a priority. Other examples are the pressed crankpin and absurd chain-drive Twinkie cam chest setup...
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallMight be the fix is to use heavier aftermarket cases. Much love for HD, but their bean counters rule the roost now and "robust" isn't really a priority. Other examples are the pressed crankpin and absurd chain-drive Twinkie cam chest setup...
Reply:Wow never knew Tinsel welding got chicks......lolanyway this is what im dealing with......the cases NEVER break if you ride it like a normal person.....Wheelie guys are the only ones having this issue...I haven't got a handle on the amount of pressure that is exerted on the front mounts, but it's more than I figured....The side of the case where the crack is showing up needs to be caped with at least a 1/4 inch thick piece that follows the profile of the side case where it cracks.....Until then I'm working on a secret gadget that bolts on to share the load and hopefully keep the mounts from cracking......  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Again, that's nice work. So you were able to weld it in place the second time around. Very clever. You are correct that these mounts will never break in typical touring use. The only Harley-Davidsons that would break in normal use were the pre-Shovelhead units. That would be the VL's, EL's, FL's and large UL and ULH flatneads. I've never seen a Shovelhead mount break. As I said earlier, I don't wheelie so I won't be encountering this problem. I'd bet this guy will be buying a new set of crankcases in the near future.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CThe 4943 has more tinsel strength like 5356
Reply:The newest approach to the broken case deal.....I installed a couple on the wheelie kids bike and they went to Reno today for the Street Vibrations deal should know how the new gadgets work next week......Strictly for rubber mount TC bikes that are subjected to Wheelie abuse only........Riding the motorcycle normally the cases never fail.......Last edited by B_C; 09-27-2013 at 01:03 PM.  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:That's nice work but I fear that it will only transfer the vibration of the engine to the frame and result in cracks here and there. There's a reason why they rubber-mounted the engines on Harley FL's and FXs. They didn't do that on the Softails of course, but the Twin Cam units have dual balancing shafts. Your welding looks great, but I think the next welds you do on that bike will be on the frame with the engine removed. I have to ask, though....why does he have to wheelie all of the time? Frankly I think it's boring and doesn't show good judgment or even great riding skill. Just my humble opinion after owning more than 40 motorcycles over more than 50 years and several hundred thousand miles on the road on a bike.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109That's nice work but I fear that it will only transfer the vibration of the engine to the frame and result in cracks here and there. There's a reason why they rubber-mounted the engines on Harley FL's and FXs. They didn't do that on the Softails of course, but the Twin Cam units have dual balancing shafts. Your welding looks great, but I think the next welds you do on that bike will be on the frame with the engine removed. I have to ask, though....why does he have to wheelie all of the time? Frankly I think it's boring and doesn't show good judgment or even great riding skill. Just my humble opinion after owning more than 40 motorcycles over more than 50 years and several hundred thousand miles on the road on a bike.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThe guy just wants to wheelie. I gather he just don't care if the frame breaks. The fact that Harley won't warranty the motor gives me the impression that there is an inherent design flaw, weak axxed engine cases. Hence the upgrades.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109As to warranty, surely you don't think that any dealer would warrant a bike with wheelie damage, do you? Like them or not, dealers know what's what when it comes to damage like this. Anyone could see that it's been mistreated and such damages are never covered. More about warranty: The California Highway Patrol was running Harley-Davidsons in the mid-1980's. Without exception every last one of them developed cracks in the middle of the right crankcase from a weak design. Every one of them was warranted without question and the crankcases were replaced. This had a lot to do with the fact that Harley-Davidson changed to BMW's for the next run of bikes. Even though HD made good on the warranty, there was a month turn around on the engines from the factory and the CHP couldn't wait that long to keep their fleet running. The fact that the cases were replaced and the bikes were otherwise very well maintained made them very popular with bidders at the sealed bid auctions held for such state property. I bid on two of them but not high enough so I didn't win.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109Well, it depends on how you look at it. The standard Dynas (Fat Bob, Street Bob, Custom, etc.) were designed as cruisers with some limited touring capability, but nothing like the FL's. They have a fast handling frame (29 degree as opposed to the Dyna Wide Glide with 34 degrees) and they represent the cruiser envelope from a design standpoint. Used as intended, I've never ever seen a motor mount break on any of the Harleys from the Shovelhead on. As to warranty, surely you don't think that any dealer would warrant a bike with wheelie damage, do you? Like them or not, dealers know what's what when it comes to damage like this. Anyone could see that it's been mistreated and such damages are never covered. More about warranty: The California Highway Patrol was running Harley-Davidsons in the mid-1980's. Without exception every last one of them developed cracks in the middle of the right crankcase from a weak design. Every one of them was warranted without question and the crankcases were replaced. This had a lot to do with the fact that Harley-Davidson changed to BMW's for the next run of bikes. Even though HD made good on the warranty, there was a month turn around on the engines from the factory and the CHP couldn't wait that long to keep their fleet running. The fact that the cases were replaced and the bikes were otherwise very well maintained made them very popular with bidders at the sealed bid auctions held for such state property. I bid on two of them but not high enough so I didn't win.
Reply:Wheelies don't cause fork seal failures.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeGood eye for detail, but I had to comment. I know some boneheads that work at HD dealerships and they don't know sh!t from shinola, and how could you or them tell if a bike has been wheelied? Not unless it was brought in with blown out fork seals.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109Well, it depends on how you look at it. The standard Dynas (Fat Bob, Street Bob, Custom, etc.) were designed as cruisers with some limited touring capability, but nothing like the FL's. They have a fast handling frame (29 degree as opposed to the Dyna Wide Glide with 34 degrees) and they represent the cruiser envelope from a design standpoint. Used as intended, I've never ever seen a motor mount break on any of the Harleys from the Shovelhead on. As to warranty, surely you don't think that any dealer would warrant a bike with wheelie damage, do you? Like them or not, dealers know what's what when it comes to damage like this. Anyone could see that it's been mistreated and such damages are never covered. More about warranty: The California Highway Patrol was running Harley-Davidsons in the mid-1980's. Without exception every last one of them developed cracks in the middle of the right crankcase from a weak design. Every one of them was warranted without question and the crankcases were replaced. This had a lot to do with the fact that Harley-Davidson changed to BMW's for the next run of bikes. Even though HD made good on the warranty, there was a month turn around on the engines from the factory and the CHP couldn't wait that long to keep their fleet running. The fact that the cases were replaced and the bikes were otherwise very well maintained made them very popular with bidders at the sealed bid auctions held for such state property. I bid on two of them but not high enough so I didn't win.
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC1500Wheelies don't cause fork seal failures.
Reply:Originally Posted by slotardI hadn't heard that. One issue with the new CHP Harleys (they've received 100+ so far) is that the top speed is rather lacking for pursuits against modern vehicles - something like 110-115mph I believe. They take a while to get there as well. When plenty of SUVs can outrun motor cops in a straight line, it's a bit of an issue.
Reply:Most of the guys I have know are afraid to treat their harlys like that, even the "hard core" guys,,, or especially the hard core guys! 20 years ago I built a 74 raked out 10 degrees 10 over duel disk 200 spoke wheels widest tires I could find we're 200 or 210s I think. I really had to pull it into the corners but once you got it ther it did alright. But the harly guy would only ride with me once, then that was it. The road racers they thought it was fun havin a chopper built to turn out there rippin it up. BTW I think your on the right track w the motor mount redesign it with a little more surface and my money says you will have it. Thanks for the video.
Reply:Well the guys got back from Reno and I havent seen the broken case repair or heard any feed back from my Landing Pads so Im assuming they work.......I still need to adjust the clearance issue so they DONT  touch the cases till set down from the wheelie.....To answer the question of harming the frame,The only time the pads come into play is when they come down from a wheelie....other than that its a rubber mount theres so much contact with the frame I doubt it will damage it....   Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:BC, as always your welds look great! Bike pic's are cool also. I have a question for you and Shovelon concerning 4943 filler. Would you guys consider it a substitute for 5356 in certain applications? I've always really loved the cleanliness and much easier wettability of 4043 but I mostly do marine applications with 5086 plate and 606X structurals so I've stuck with the book recommended 5356 filler. I've learned to live with the black smut and tougher wetting to maximize the strength and corrosion resistance the 5356 offers but I'm more than willing to try 4943 if I'm not giving up too much? For process I'm 99% MIG with 1% TIG to fix my boo boo's.thanks...
Reply:Well the guys got back from Reno and I havent seen the broken case repair orheard any feed back from my Landing Pads so Im assuming they work.......I still need to adjust the clearanceissue so they DONT touch the cases till set down from the wheelie.....To answer the question of harming the frame,The only time the pads come into play is when they come down from a wheelie....other than that its a rubber mounttheres so much contact with the frame I doubt it will damage it....
Reply:I think 4943 could be a good substitute for 5356. You would need to do some tests though.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonI think 4943 could be a good substitute for 5356. You would need to do some tests though.
Reply:Originally Posted by awill4x4I would suspect that if the part has to be anodised after welding that would probably be the main issue as 4XXX series fillers anodise black.Regards Andrew from Oz.
Reply:Anodizing compatibility is not an issue to me, it's just an annoying mill scale that needs to be ground off before I can weld something  I'm thinking I'll get a one-lb spool and try some tests. Long term corrosion resistance is tough to test but I have occasionally run 4043 above waterline without issues,  I'm guessing 4943 should be similar or maybe better? Strength is the main concern and I realize that it's not so much the filler strength but alloy depletion/enrichment in the weld zone that really controls then ultimate joint strength. I've noticed that most of my failures welding the tempered alloys (5086, etc) have occurred in the adjacent HAZ zone not at the actual joint. In most cases this was the result of insufficient support causing repetitive flex leading to work hardening and cracking in the HAZ zone (design issue). Any speculations yet on how 4943 may react to this relative to 4043 and 5356?thanks!