Calculations...agian

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I ran a search but really didn't find anything that directly answered the question so I'll ask it here. Besides, I can't be the only one who's wondering with all the new welders contemplating purchasing machines. So, here's the question. If I pull the trigger on the MIG gun on say a tapped machine for example like my Lincoln 180HD, with the amp tap set at "A", is the actual wire feed speed the same when it's set at "1" as it is when the amp tap is set at "B"... or "C", or "D" of any of the other more powerful settings? And as a logical follow up, with the Lincoln wire feed setting marked "1", "2", "3", etc, what is the corresponding inches per minute? Yes, I know; I could just pull the trigger and time the run for 6 seconds, measure the output, multiply by 10 and calculate the answer for every dial number but that's a hassle. Someone here has to have the answers. The reason I ask is that I just went to weld with a Longevity and it's dials turning results in a numeric readout in numeric IPM and I'm accustomed to letters. I hope this question makes sense and thank you, as always, for your experienced answers.
Reply:I have asked this question before, and have been told that most machines have a fixed wire speed per dial setting. But some machines do change the wire speed dynamically, so it's not out of the question. If you need a specific ipm, the only sure way is to pull the trigger and measure, unless your manufacturer makes a chart, but they often don't.Everlast PA160-STH... and that's about it!
Reply:Off I go to measure. Thanks to much.
Reply:I dislike doing things more than once if I can help it, so I'd measure them all one time and tape a chart inside the door.I think that makes me lazy  lolDave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by jlames with the amp tap set at "A", is the actual wire feed speed the same when it's set at "1" as it is when the amp tap is set at "B"... or "C", or "D" of any of the other more powerful settings?
Reply:I don't know the actual IPS of the wire on any particular MIG machine, but I can tell you from personal experiance that when you change the 'heat' setting on the welder the amount of power to the wire feed motor changes.The higher the heat setting "A" lowest to "D" or ...."Q" the faster the wire is presented to the weld process.The adjustement knob for wire speed only controls within the range of the heat setting.It makes sense since how much wire is needed for an 'average' weld increases as you need more heat (thicker stock). So the middle setting on the fine control is always 'avereage' regardless of the heat setting.I've always been a 'by feel' welder.Hope this helps.Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by papaharley03 I'd just measure 1, 5, and 10, then interpolate the other intermediate values.papa
Reply:Why not just turn dials until you get the desired results? Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Sorry, my mistake in nomenclature. I meant volts but wrote amps; still learning and getting things straight but you're right. So, cheating it was!!! I took measurements on my 180 and no matter what the voltage setting was, "A" through "E", the "1", "5" and "10" results on wire feed were always "6", "26" and "53" respectively which calculates out to "60", "260" and "530" again respectively. Admittedly, when you account for the deviation factors of an iPhone stopwatch, 56-year old reaction time, a 30-year old tape measure and one MGD, my results could hardly be termed "scientific" but it's all part of the learning process!!! As least I can see how things relate even though, and thank you for this, I didn't know machines will vary. I'll see how welding the exactly same material together with another welder that has digital read-out numbers corresponds with my alphanumeric representations (of course matching the Lincoln's "A"-"E" tapped setting voltages to the other machine's voltage numbers) but getting to the point where I too can weld by feel is the objective. I just have to understand the principles involved and then see it in practical application. I think alot of other beginners are like that too. We have questions and look to you all certainly for the answers but more importantly for the explanations. The old "show your work in the margin" approach to learning!Last edited by jlames; 10-18-2013 at 04:53 PM.
Reply:By the way, the "aperture" analogy works for me!!! Thanks.
Reply:I truly believe you're better off learning / knowing how to set a machine by reading the puddle, and knowing what the puddle requires! It most likely won't ever happen to you, but the younger guys who will have to test to get a job, sooner or later they'll walk into to a test booth and find all the gauges covered with tape. First part of the test is to know how to set the machine with in the wire manufacturer's specs. If not, test over go home! Last edited by SWells; 10-18-2013 at 06:18 PM.Reason: Title typoDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Miller used to have Wire Tracking- where the speed did change with the different settings on Voltage but they dropped that feature.Anyhoo- the Digi readouts don't help me any more than Letters- what more do I really know when it gives me actual Voltage & Wire Speed? I don't use weld procedure sheets   They could put icons on the machine for all I care :}Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:You know, that's good advice. When I learned to fly, it was before GPS. We had electric... not "electronic" but plain, old electric gauges with back up vacuum gauges and we got to get from here to there knowing how to use them. And instrument training was truly "INSTRUMENT" training using VORs and ILSs and finding invisible "highways in the air" to follow when you couldn't see the wing tips outside the cockpit; instruments that our airplane today doesn't even have or I should say had. We sold it about a year ago but it was a truly "all-glass" cockpit. I know I sound like my father but the fact is you're right; I'm a wholly better pilot for having learned how to feel the world and the airplane and not have all the GPS and glass comforts of home we have today rather I expect it is with seeing and reading the puddle.  On the other hand, learning an all-glass cockpit is in itself a challenge. Today's plots are faced with the same difficulties and it took me more than a few of hours to feel comfortable and then get IFR-certified in a new Cessna. Anyway, off-track on my own thread but I know there are alot of pilots who are welders out there like  SuperArc whom I've talked to who equate flying to welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Miller used to have Wire Tracking- where the speed did change with the different settings on Voltage but they dropped that feature.Anyhoo- the Digi readouts don't help me any more than Letters- what more do I really know when it gives me actual Voltage & Wire Speed? I don't use weld procedure sheets   They could put icons on the machine for all I care :}
Reply:I'm finding, Ed, that the numbers and letter are giving me a starting point and them when I start the current, I'm starting to read the puddle knowing whether I need to increase or reduce voltage or wire speed or both. I'm not good at it yet but at least I'm recognizing there's a problem and trying to work my way through it in my head and then twist the dials or push the up or down buttons. I have to understand what I'm seeing first and then use what I've learned from you all and my practice to effect the right corrections. It really is alot like flying. Before GPS, you had VORs and invisible, magnetic routes that you had to follow in the sky in order to navigate. And to do that, especially on instrument approaches and holding patterns, you had to see them in your mind's eyes and then equate that to what you were seeing visually and let your hands follow what you were seeing in your head. I know it sounds weird but as a beginner I find it alot easier, like Papa said, to use analogies that I already understand to get better at welding. When he said "aperture", alot of things clicked. I'm getting there with welding, again, thanks to you all.
Reply:Another thing, learn to listen to the weld! When the sound changes that gets my attention before seeing a problem. Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPWhy not just turn dials until you get the desired results?
Reply:The interest in wire speed and exact voltage readout is a new thing on the forums,at least it seems that way to me.When I first joined people were all over the MM210- a tapped machine at that- We had the MM135, 175 180 as well. Hobart's line up as well,Now I see a few threads with people wanting to measure what the voltage is on their tapped machine and then label the machine. But all of that information doesn't mean much to most of the guys using these machines, no Weld procedure sheets.