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helo everyone, my name is bill and im new to the forums here. il get right to it.. ive been mig welding for a few years now and have a basic understanding of what im doing but id like to get into tig welding for more diverse work. ive been doing some research on the internet about some in-expensive tig welders seeing as how my budget is a max of 1500. i read way too many horror stories on the eastwood tig 200 to even consider it, and seing as how a decent miller or lincoln unit is way beyond my price range, my next option was an everlast tig 200dv. im not familiar with the brand but have done a little research on the units and they seem to be a fair deal for the money. the 5 yr warrenty they come with makes me feel a little more comfortable that the company stands behind their product. also i like the features and well as the add-on options of the unit. I would like to get some opinions on this and see if any of the experienced welders here have any input on this brand or any suggestions for me. current welder is a miller-matic 175 and i love it, absolute work horse!
Reply:Welcome to the forum Bill.Lincoln A/C 225Everlast P/A 200
Reply:Welcome Bill. You've come to the right place. Grab a cup of coffee and do a search and you should find plenty of results.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:thank you guys! i spent the whole weekend reading reviews and watching welding vid on youtube and im still on the fence. id prefer one of the blue or red machines but the price tag is hard to get around. ive checked craigslist so far but there really isnt much in my immediate area except the gigantic dinosaur welders that are waaaayy overkill for what i plan on doing. to be more specific, my freinds and i are into drifting, and building our cars. id like to be able to make some money making intakes for people and modding knuckes and building roll cages ect.... if that helps..
Reply:If you want a good basic TIG, without spending a lot of money, it is hard to beat a used Miller Syncrowave 180 or 200. I have owned both, both are good. Both have High Frequency, AC and DC, so you can weld any metal, including aluminum. Both include stick and TIG. The original version of the Syncrowave 180 is arguably better for beginners, as it has minimal controls, three switches and one knob, simple to use. The later version of the 180 (180SD) added an AC balance knob and digital displays. The 200 has lots of bells and whistles, including pulse, which I like for thin copper. The 180 is a little smaller, but both are relatively big and heavy, around 200 pounds. Figure on at least a 50 amp 220V circuit for either welder, which is what I use. Some recommend a 60 amp 220V breaker. I bought the 200 for $1300, too good a deal to pass up, and then sold my Synchrowave 180 for $1150. The 180 price that I got was probably higher than average, and the 200 price that I paid was lower than average, so I did very well, paid only $150 to upgrade.Anyway, for somewhere between $900 and $1500, you can buy a used Syncrowave 180 or 200, and have a welder that will probably serve all your needs for decades. If you buy used, and you decide you need a bigger or fancier welder down the road, you can get almost all your money back when you sell it. You will take a big depreciation hit if you buy a new welder and sell it later. With these Syncrowaves you can TIG weld any thin metal up to about 3/16 inch, and you can stick weld any steel 1/8 inch or thicker. I used the 180 as a stick welder for months before I got around to buying an argon bottle. Some report that the 180 had a higher than average repair rate, but my original version 180 gave me no trouble.Alternatives to a Syncrowave: The Miller Diversion lacks stick. Stick is what you need to weld thick steel. The Dynasty is a great welder, but way too much money unless you have to have easy portability, or need 110V. (Note that a 20 amp 120Volt outlet will only run a welder at very reduced power, so 110V operation is not that great an advantage). If you need portability, you could consider a Thermal Arc 186 AC/DC, maybe half the price of a Dynasty. Some folks suggest the HTP Invertig 221, an inverter machine, somewhat similar to the Dynasty, but less money. The Miller EconoTIG looks good on paper, but a Miller factory guy said that it was not that great, that the Syncrowave 180 was a much better machine. Lincoln makes the Square Wave 175, and Precision TIG 225, similar to the Syncrowaves, look for a used Lincoln as a possible alternative. Many if not most inverter welders are DC only, so you can’t TIG aluminum. (Examples: Multimatic 200, XMT series, Maxstar series, the new Thermal Arc multi-process welders, Lincoln V350 and C300, etc.) The Chinese machines from Longevity and Everlast have an attractive price, but resale value, reliability, and support are concerns.Note that many inverter welders, such as the Dynasty or Invertec series, do not come standard with a TIG torch, regulator, and foot pedal, so they are even more expensive than they look at first glance. The Syncrowaves come with everything you need except a gas bottle. The welder manufacturers are pushing their high end inverter machines, but it is hard to justify the much higher cost, especially when you can find a used Syncrowave for not much more than $1000. They have sold a lot of Syncrowaves, so you should be able to find a used one if you look.Just for comparison, a new Syncrowave 200 retails for $2900, a new Syncrowave 210 retails for $3200, a new Dynasty 200DX with torch, regulator, foot pedal, etc., retails for $5100. The Lincoln Square Wave 175 retails for $1900, the Precision TIG 225 retails for $2900. On the used market, the Dynasty 200 welders are hard to find, and priced around $3000. The Syncrowaves are easier to find used, and priced right.The Syncrowave 250 is an industry classic, a great machine, but big and heavy, and more expensive. It should probably have a 100 amp 220V circuit, especially if you want to get full power out of it. The 250 is just more welder than most folks need, unless you need to TIG 1/4 inch thick aluminum. RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:Originally Posted by billdmarthank you guys! i spent the whole weekend reading reviews and watching welding vid on youtube and im still on the fence. id prefer one of the blue or red machines but the price tag is hard to get around. ive checked craigslist so far but there really isnt much in my immediate area except the gigantic dinosaur welders that are waaaayy overkill for what i plan on doing. to be more specific, my freinds and i are into drifting, and building our cars. id like to be able to make some money making intakes for people and modding knuckes and building roll cages ect.... if that helps..
Reply:that was an extremely informative response and exactly what i wanted to hear, thank you richard! it is hard not to consider the chinese machines at the prices they offer, but id rather get a quality used machine then be hassled by some chinese unit. the only question i have after reading that article, would be, where is the best place to look for a used welder other than craigslist. i found a miller diversion 165 for 1100 near me, which u said lacks stick, but idk how much actual stick welding ill be doing. the only real thick steel i can see myself welding would be tie-rod pick-up points on some steering knuckles but ive seen people mig weld these with few problems, so im curious if a few passes on a tig welder would be sufficient enough or if it would really require a stick welder. other than that, i see mostly roll cages, exhuast headers, cast iron manifolds, and aluminum intakes as what i would be doing mostly. i thak you for your time and input!
Reply:Originally Posted by billdmarthat was an extremely informative response and exactly what i wanted to hear, thank you richard! it is hard not to consider the chinese machines at the prices they offer, but id rather get a quality used machine then be hassled by some chinese unit. the only question i have after reading that article, would be, where is the best place to look for a used welder other than craigslist. i found a miller diversion 165 for 1100 near me, which u said lacks stick, but idk how much actual stick welding ill be doing. the only real thick steel i can see myself welding would be tie-rod pick-up points on some steering knuckles but ive seen people mig weld these with few problems, so im curious if a few passes on a tig welder would be sufficient enough or if it would really require a stick welder. other than that, i see mostly roll cages, exhuast headers, cast iron manifolds, and aluminum intakes as what i would be doing mostly. i thak you for your time and input!
Reply:im in NNJ about 20 min from ny state
Reply:The Syncrowave 250 is an industry classic, a great machine, but big and heavy, and more expensive. It should probably have a 100 amp 220V circuit, especially if you want to get full power out of it. The 250 is just more welder than most folks need, unless you need to TIG 1/4 inch thick aluminum.
Reply:This is a nice unit for the price, assuming it works. Syncrowave 200 for $1600 http://longisland.craigslist.org/sys/4884053471.htmlMiller Multimatic 255
Reply:Here's another if you can get him down on his price a bit. http://southjersey.craigslist.org/tls/4874324223.htmlMiller Multimatic 255
Reply:last one, then I have to get back to work. I think this one is overpriced since new they aren't much more. But a nice machine in red instead of blue. http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/for/4844872783.htmlMiller Multimatic 255
Reply:ill look into these units, thank you!!
Reply:Originally Posted by billdmarim in NNJ about 20 min from ny state
Reply:RAFERGUSON. I think your scaring him of with those prices. I paid 2350$ for a pt225. And sycn210 are 2500$ and dynasty's 200 are 3500$ or less. I think everlast makes a pretty fancy 250 or 256 with alot of bells and whistles for 1600$
Reply:the one thing about the everlast machines that caught my eye is the option to add the water cooler and the 5 yr warranty. IMO any company thats willing to put a 5 yr warranty on a machine has got to have some confidence in the longevity of the machine and its construction. im not looking for anything really crazy, im just learning how to tig, but would like to use the machine to make some money as well. i can always upgrade down the road.
Reply:Harbor freight has lifetime warrenty and they suck. You can add water cooler to any machine. I've seen everlast water cooled torch there huge. If I were you I would get a transformer. Maybe look for used not beat up for a good deal. But I dout you will everyone wants almost what they paid brand new for there welder. That's why I bought new.
Reply:Here's the only problem with warranties, and it applies to pretty much all of them. if you have a problem, generally you are responsible for shipping the unit for repairs, both ways. If the brand you are buying doesn't have a local presence, then shipping can be as much as $100 a pop. Some vendors give you a 30 or 90 day grace period on the shipping, but after that, it is going to be on you to ship it.You can add a water cooler to ANY TIG welderAnd BTW, using the word longevity to describe Everlast probably annoys them to no end....Longevity is one of their major competitors. Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Unfortunately, the presence of a long warranty does not guarantee quality. With luck, the company will stress quality to minimize returns, but sometimes the company will sell well in the first year and then go bankrupt. When that happens the warranty is hard to collect on. Fortunately there are people like George (on this forum) who repair these machines.Equally unfortunate is that a used name brand machine may or may not have better quality and will not have any warranty. Welders can be abused and break down. There is a reason that the number one positive attribute for buying domestic models is the repair and service network that is available. Even so, threads on this forum indicate that the repair prices for a Miller or Lincoln may come close to the cost of a new Chinese import.It's a tough decision to make. One way to look at it is that whatever you buy new will lose 25% to 50% of it's value immediately. Would you prefer to lose 50% of $3500 or 50% of $800? If you buy used, you get no guaranty that it will work at all. If you are just learning, most any machine will work. If you are welding for a living, you will want to minimize your down-time and maximize your speed; that suggests a new one (big name) from your local welding shop. DanLast edited by dbstoo; 02-24-2015 at 03:02 PM.----------------------------Measure twice. Weld once. Grind to size.MIG: Lincoln SP100 TIG/STICK: AHP Alphatig 200X
Reply:I bought my syncro 250 for $1k. Self/weldweb taught and its built a ton of stuff.
Reply:im hearing all of this and trying to consider all points that are given. my issue is lack of budget. if i had my choice miller would be the way to go. for instance, i read lots of horror sotries on the eastwood tig200, yet my brother freind who builds rock crawler tube chassis for a living has been using one in a production setting for 6 months now without a single issue. everything i find on craigslist is either a dinosaur or beyond my financial reach. im not wild about buying a used machine unless i can see it working in person. not wild aboout chinese companies either, but im not an expert welder and would be using this machine initially to learn, then to try to make some income. so with reguards to that, i think maybe just bite the bullet and get a chinese unit and hopefully by the time it brakes or i out grow it i can swing the several thousand for a nice miller. im new to tig welding but am eager to learn and make some exttra income with it but i only get shot to pick one so i gotta make it count. maybe ill just wait and see what pops up.Last edited by billdmar; 02-24-2015 at 03:13 PM.
Reply:Another vote for a used name brand over the Chinese stuff.Better to wait and save a little more than have a busted Chinese welder.Others have mentioned the shipping costs to return a broken welder. But they can also take a long time to repair under warranty. You don't have to search far on this forum to find people having to wait months for their welder to be fixed or a new one to reach them from the Chinese companies.Despite the stories I thought it wouldn't happen to me. But it did. Welder blew up. I had to pay $150 in shipping then wait 3 months for them to determine they couldn't fix it. Then wait some more for a replacement to show up.Incredibly frustrating as a hobbyist, I couldn't imagine if some actual income was on the line.Also the quality of the accessories has traditionally been much lower with the Chinese welders.Stiff leads, bulky torches, crappy regulators in the wrong units (with excess gas line which causes surge and gas waste), weirdly shaped and notchy feeling foot pedals.This will all make it harder to produce good work, especially while you are learning.Hobart 210 MVPHTP Invertig 221 + coolerEverlast SuperUltra 205
Reply:If you are buying chineese, home depot carries pretty much all the chineese welders, everlast, longevity, AHP, logos, etc.You can use a competitors coupon from harbor freight, or lowes, or just ask nicely and the customer service rep will give you 10% off most of the time.they have free shipping.\you can get an extended warranty for items less then $1000 for $130.they pay shipping on the warranty claimsthe warranty's review shows they have slow service though, it might take two months to get replacement welder.I own a lincoln and a chinese longevity, both work nice.however lincoln cost me an extra $1000 just to install! new breaker, box, new wire, , etc. those transformers, are pain in the *** to get hooked up!
Reply:Originally Posted by billdmar not wild aboout chinese companies either, but im not an expert welder and would be using this machine initially to learn, then to try to make some income. so with reguards to that, i think maybe just bite the bullet and get a chinese unit and hopefully by the time it brakes or i out grow it i can swing the several thousand for a nice miller.Another vote for used good stuff vs. cheap Chinese stuff.1) If you buy a used Miller Syncrowave at a reasonable price. Keep it clean and it good working order (download the manual and follow the guide and don't put trash on top of the welder itself etc. etc.) you can always sell the machine for what you paid. Try selling a cheap Chinese welder.2) You get to see the welder work. Maybe even get the guy selling it to you to spend 1/2 hr or so showing you how to use the machine. Unbox a mail order welder and you are on your own. Maybe a youtube video to teach you.As for 5 year waranty. Make sure they will replace the welder if they cannot repair or cannot get the parts in a timely manner. There are stories of people waiting months... and maybe never getting the parts.The old transformer based machines are pretty much bullet proof. There is not much that can go wrong. Clean the contacts, rebuild a solenoid, replace a relay (I had a 1978 Miller and sold it in perfect working condition, all timers etc. in 2005 - never had to replace any part)Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:however lincoln cost me an extra $1000 just to install! new breaker, box, new wire, , etc. those transformers, are pain in the *** to get hooked up!
Reply:May I recommend the AHP Alphatig 200? ...It compares well with the Lincoln Precision TIG 275
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9Another vote for used good stuff vs. cheap Chinese stuff.1) If you buy a used Miller Syncrowave at a reasonable price. Keep it clean and it good working order (download the manual and follow the guide and don't put trash on top of the welder itself etc. etc.) you can always sell the machine for what you paid. Try selling a cheap Chinese welder.2) You get to see the welder work. Maybe even get the guy selling it to you to spend 1/2 hr or so showing you how to use the machine. Unbox a mail order welder and you are on your own. Maybe a youtube video to teach you.As for 5 year waranty. Make sure they will replace the welder if they cannot repair or cannot get the parts in a timely manner. There are stories of people waiting months... and maybe never getting the parts.The old transformer based machines are pretty much bullet proof. There is not much that can go wrong. Clean the contacts, rebuild a solenoid, replace a relay (I had a 1978 Miller and sold it in perfect working condition, all timers etc. in 2005 - never had to replace any part)
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyWelcome Bill. You've come to the right place. Grab a cup of coffee and do a search and you should find plenty of results.
Reply:I will add that with the HTP invertig 221 you *could* get a lease from Usaweld.com that would break the payments up over 12 months. That might help you get into a good quality machine without paying the whole amount up front.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961May I recommend the AHP Alphatig 200? ...It compares well with the Lincoln Precision TIG 275
Reply:Not really. The precisionTIG is a squarewave machine with balance control and pulse. Amps count when you are welding aluminum. If welding aluminum were a high priority I would take the amps over the frequency control any day.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by dbstooYep. Within their respective design envelopes, both worked exactly the same and produce identical welds. If I'd needed to use 275 amps for some really thick stuff, the Lincoln may have had an advantage, but it lacked several features that are standard on my welder. If you put the most emphasis on max amps, an AC/DC 255 Lincoln tombstone with a scratch start tig torch would win over just about all of the inverter models. Dan
Reply:Originally Posted by RJ LindblomNever realized it, I work right up the road from you.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawI don't think you can even compare the 2. you cannot do Aluminum on the tombstone as no HF and even with a HF box, you still dont have a pedal. they are great machines but not if aluminium is his goal...
Reply:I am not denigrating anything. The only thing the AHP has over the precision tig is frequency control. I'd rather have the extra 75 amps for welding aluminum, as I think it would be more useful.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961I am not denigrating anything. The only thing the AHP has over the precision tig is frequency control. I'd rather have the extra 75 amps for welding aluminum, as I think it would be more useful.
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961I am not denigrating anything. The only thing the AHP has over the precision tig is frequency control. I'd rather have the extra 75 amps for welding aluminum, as I think it would be more useful.
Reply:With all the great deals online a new welder from a quality manufacturer should not be hard to find in your budget or very close, no tax and free shipping at most places. The place I just bought my latest welder had a long list of demo units at good prices also. I actually talked to them about the welder and what they thought, then called the company to make sure it it would work for my application. My advice is always spend the money needed to get what you need for projects now, and what might come later, also something that will last and you can be proud to own. People think I am crazy for the money I spend on quality tools, but just a few weeks ago I called Snap-On to purchase some lift shocks and drawer slide for one of my boxes, customer service told me they will ship the parts immediately at no charge. Thanked me for being a customer and shipped two day delivery, the box is 6 years old. I have had other TA take care of me like this with one of my welders and I was the one who broke the part. Used welders can be a bargain if you know what you are looking at and familiar with the unit, like others have said transformer units are pretty much bulletproof. Several times I was going to purchase based on price alone because I did not have the money right then, waiting and getting a better product has always proved to save money and frustration in the long run.ESAB Rebels 215 and 235, ESAB HELIARC 281i, ESAB ET 301i, Hypertherm 85 and 45XP, Thermal Arc 185, TD 60i, HTP PRO PULSE 300
Reply:I'm not sure which set of desires better match the OP's needs and desires.
Reply:most intake manifolds are 1/8 to 3/16, not 1/4" in my experience.I have the percisiion tig it actually goes way past 275 amps, more like 325 or more, when I weld thick AL occassionally I typically weld the front and back anyways seems to give better results for me. a comparble machine is http://www.longevity-inc.com/tig-wel...weld-315-ac-dcor http://www.everlastgenerators.com/pr...owertig-325extabout half the price, not sure how relaible they are though, seems like the chineese brands appeal to people on a budget and if you are on a budget then you typically dont' need 300amps or more.
Reply:Yeah, but after the recent Longevity thread, I am not sure many people are eager to buy from them.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:i have 220v at both my home and my "shop" so 220v is a must. speaking from lack of experience, i feel like a 200-225 amp machine would suite my needs but id rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. gonna take a look at the local welding stores here to see what kind of offers they have on new or possibly refurbished machines, as well as keep my eyes peeled of CL. i like the newer inverter machines becuase i dont have to worry about cooking the wiring in my house and especially at my shop where the breakers seem to be kind of easy to pop.Last edited by billdmar; 02-25-2015 at 02:20 PM.
Reply:The htp 221 has a really good duty cycle. More then the pt225. For steel I don't think I have ever went over 200 amps besides speed tacking. I crank it up to usually 210 or so for tacking 1/8. I was speed tacking 1/8 AL last night at 230amps. Duty cycle is very important!
Reply:I love my longevity 160sx, and would have no problem buying another regardless of what any thread states. if someone fries their welder by plugging it into a non clean generator power, that is their own fault, whether it be lincoln, longevity, everlast or whatever. basically I make my own decisions, forum gossip ain't a factor.
Reply:It's interesting you can tell the state of a generators output from a few states over. And believe that the mains is nice in clean.But it's not about how it died, but how the company deals with people. Getting the run around for months.There is another guy in the thread getting the run around.See the pattern?Sure it may never happen to you. Or there could be a slight power surge on the mains, or a breaker pops at the wrong moment, that fries your machine and you end up paying for shipping and getting the run around for months.Or it could be that these cheap Chinese machines have borderline speced parts, no MOVs or other surge suppression and are generally not well designed.You get what you pay for is true more often than not, and definitely in this case.Hobart 210 MVPHTP Invertig 221 + coolerEverlast SuperUltra 205
Reply:after much consideration and reading the miller brochure form the local welding store, ive looked into the dynasty and the diversion. dynasty, while an extremely nice machine, is way beyond my budget. if i was an established high end performance/fabrication shop with plenty of business then it would be the way to go. seeing as how im a weekend warrior with personal projects and minimal money making work in my immidiate future, the diversion series looks like the way to go. they seem to have some nice features for what i will be doing and are still simple to use. i appreciate all the info and help i have recieved from the welding community here on weldingweb.com and im glad i took the time to ask some questions and listen to all the advice. ill keep you guys updated on when i make my purchase and how things go on my first few welds.
Reply:I had this welder as my first tig/stick when I first opened my shop. It really worked good and is close to your price range. I ran it on a 50 amp circuit, but under full power you could pop that after a while. It will do everything you want, but you may need to take some breaks during a big job since the duty cycle is not great. I added a water cooled torch because they are softer and easier to use, but I also found thzt that helped with the duty cycle when tigging too. I kept it for a backup after I bought my 255 square wave, but sold it when I sold the business. http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...olnElectric%29Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Are you saying a water cooled torch added duty cycle to the machine? |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:40:32