Lincoln "tombstone" 225AC compared to Lincoln 225AC/125DC

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I've had my AC "tombstone" since the 80s, used sporadically over the years but not many hours on it, works fine. Am being offered a Lincoln 225AC/125DC in nearly new condition for $275 (about 1/2 of new price). I'm a hobby type welder with basic skill level, making stands, etc., and I have never used a DC machine. Couple of questions(and yes, I know, very subjective):1) will the added DC increase my welding capabilities?2) is my old AC better quality than current new AC machines?Thanks, Brian
Reply:(1) It should. More rod selection, no more sticking the rod on start up, smoother arc/welds. Easier out of position welding.(2) Maybe. Probably a copper wound transformer in the older model with possibly an aluminum wound version in the newer model. May be smoother, may not. Either way you're still going to be welding at the same amps and same hertz (60 hz if in the U.S./ 50 Hz elsewhere). Possibly a greater duty cycle on the older machine.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Just found this on the miller site, should've done a search first, I was just being lazyDC welding offers advantages over AC for most Stick applications, including: easier starts; fewer arc outages and sticking; less spatter/better looking welds; easier vertical up and overhead welding; easier to learn "how to weld" and a smoother arc. DC reverse polarity (electrode positive) provides about 10 percent more penetration at a given amperage than AC, while DC straight polarity (electrode negative) welds thinner metals betterEveryone agree with this?  thanks again, Brian
Reply:Seems to me that I saw that the AC225s were never made with all Copper, and that may have come from Lincoln.  Not that it make a tremendous difference if all else is engineered properly.  The prior AC180 probably is Copper, or at least like my 1952 AC180C.  It is heavy as all get-out and doesn't even have a fan.  Older units may have slightly better switches or something like that, but time and environment can take its toll, so that aspect may be a wash.  Old fans may not last forever unless given a drop of lube every umpteen years.$275. is about top dollar I'd ever pay for an AC/DC 225, and only if I was pretty limited on my electric service.  We just picked up a Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC yesterday for $350.  It was a bit more than I like to pay, but it was nicely repainted, looked little used and had about 150 feet of leads in reasonable shape.  It also has the original 3-wheel cart.  (Don't know why I didn't buy the one that sold a couple years ago for about $100.)"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Pops...you buy that Idealarc to keep the Dialarc company??Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Yes, Roy, we did.  I'm hoping come spring, they will have pups.  Maybe like this:In addition, it contributes to our shop security.  After this, I figure one more piece of heavy welding or machining equipment will totally block any ingress/egress from the garage."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoy(1) It should. More rod selection, no more sticking the rod on start up, smoother arc/welds. Easier out of position welding.(2) Maybe. Probably a copper wound transformer in the older model with possibly an aluminum wound version in the newer model. May be smoother, may not. Either way you're still going to be welding at the same amps and same hertz (60 hz if in the U.S./ 50 Hz elsewhere). Possibly a greater duty cycle on the older machine.
Reply:Definitely upgrade to a DC machine. it is like night and day on stick welding. If you don't buy that one look for a Miller Thunderbolt. The Lincoln is fixed taps and the Thunderbolt is not.
Reply:Calstar, have you seen this thread ? I've had both AC and AC/DC 225 Lincolns. I sold the 225 AC/DC...good riddance.  I still have my old 225 AC, but I use my Idealarc AC/DC 250 now. Much better machine. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...num&highlight=
Reply:Hey, Roy, I figure this worked out to about 80 cents a pound."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Calstar - The 225/125 machine you have been offered is advertised as having a duty cycle of 15% at max voltage on either AC or DC.  Even for home shop welding (your stated use), my personal feeling is that I would not want a machine with that limitation.-Marty-
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumHey, Roy, I figure this worked out to about 80 cents a pound.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumHey, Roy, I figure this worked out to about 80 cents a pound.
Reply:The AC 225 /AC-DC 225/150 are buzz boxes the Tombstone is the AC/AC-DC 250 are much better a TM-300/400/500/650 better yet. A 1/4 Jetweld 2 will blow away a .045 mig!
Reply:Roy, that's a ballpark based on $350. for everything.  It has 100 foot (each) 1/0 leads, one of which is new enough to read the lettering (Prestolite)."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by calstarCouple of questions(and yes, I know, very subjective):
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArc1) will the added DC increase my welding capabilities?  - MAYBE2) is my old AC better quality than current new AC machines? - MAYBEI consider myself a realist.  Your first question about increasing your weld "capabilities" has nothing to do with your machine.  Your own capabilities can limit you to crap welds with either a Harbor "Fright" welder or a brand new $2000 "Idealarc."   Your capabilities are your own handicap to a certain extent. Many like DC because they say it produces a "smoother" arc.   Well,  I personally like AC better myself.  No arc blow to worry about unlike DC and the spatter is cleaned up easily.  I'd definitely say to get a machine that does both AC and DC, then decide which mode you like best.  For your second question about the "quality".... Well, I'd say that's suggestive too. Okay, we all know that the Lincoln "buzz boxes" do NOT have copper windings in them.  Well, so Fu€#'N what!     If you're a home hobbiest welder, what does it matter?  The Lincoln AC-225 or AC/DC-225/125 models have been around for decades and they still work!  To the nay sayers I ask, now what?    The current Lincoln buzz boxes have aluminum windings, but the damn machine just works.  My brother's cooling fan on his AC/DC-225 stopped working years ago and he continues to just get his weld on with it.  He never bothers to fix it.   Then again, he doesn't weld beyond the machine 20% duty cycle either.  The little Lincoln buzz boxes are just a cool machine for the home hobbiest and even the occasional use for the professional welder.  Look at Jody at http://weldingtipsandtricks.com and see what he's welded up with a Lincoln AC-225 buzzbox.  He doesn't even use DC! So many people will slam the current Lincoln buzzbox just "because."   Many slam it because they are ignorant of what the machine is truly capable of welding up and also some of those types just like to spew out hot air from their food holes.  Are there better and more expensive machines out there? Absolutely.  But the term "better" is all subjective.  The Lincoln AC-225 alone  can pretty much get ANY job done out there, in the hands of a qualified user.  Same goes for the Miller Thinderbolt or Hobart Stickmate.  The Lincoln is just a pure and simple "basic" welder, without all of the "bells & whistles" or "gingerbread."
Reply:Were I to ponder spending a couple hundred bucks in order to upgrade from a Lincoln buzzbox to AC/DC buzzbox, I'd buy a cheap DC inverter instead. $275 buys a cheap imported dual voltage DC only inverter that is substantially more portable than any of the transformer buzzboxes. The cheap DC inverters also make passable TIG machines due to infinite amperage control, are substantially more efficient, provide higher DC output and duty cycle, and run 1/6-3/32" rods off of 110 in a pinch. All the while, you've still got a buzzbox that's more reliable than a hammer in your shop should the cheap inverter fail.
Reply:Originally Posted by weregeekWere I to ponder spending a couple hundred bucks in order to upgrade from a Lincoln buzzbox to AC/DC buzzbox, I'd buy a cheap DC inverter instead. $275 buys a cheap imported dual voltage DC only inverter that is substantially more portable than any of the transformer buzzboxes. The cheap DC inverters also make passable TIG machines due to infinite amperage control, are substantially more efficient, provide higher DC output and duty cycle, and run 1/6-3/32" rods off of 110 in a pinch. All the while, you've still got a buzzbox that's more reliable than a hammer in your shop should the cheap inverter fail.