Syncrowave 200 or Precision 225

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I know this question has been asked many times as it relates to a new machine but, I am looking for a TIG unit and don't want to pay the price of a new one. I have come across two different units one being a Syncrowave 200 and the other the a Precision 225. The price is almost the exact same for either and they both come with assy. Here is a break down of the two set ups.Syncrowave 200, home made cooler, 2 torches (one air cooled the other water cooled), 2 foot pedals and an 80 cubit ft argon bottle and does not have the runner package.Run time is about 4 or 5 bottles worth of use.Precision 225  with the complete mobile cart runner package, only 3 hours of use and a 20 cubit ft argon bottle. No water cooler.So in my opinion (which is a novice one at best) they are fairly comparable units but which one should I consider.Any suggestions from the pro's would be gratefully accepted.
Reply:Not sure if this is for home use, nor am I aware of your knowledge on the matter (so don't be offended), but please be aware of the power these machines draw to ensure your electrical system can handle it.Regards.Working on cars and bikes is my hobby, learning to weld the pieces together is my quest.
Reply:How much do you trust that homemade cooler? new leads are expensive...How much do you intended to weld in a session? If it's more than about ten minutes you'll want a water cooled torch.I would not consider an air cooled unit. A water cooled torch is necessary, for me.Out of curiosity, what are the prices?Have you compared the price to the stuff on ebay?Lincoln vs. Miller is really not that important, imho.80 cu. ft. bottle is what I would call the minimum size for shop use. The 20 will only last a few hours, you might have to go to the welding shop multiple times a day with a bottle that small.Last edited by fortyonethirty; 06-12-2010 at 10:22 PM.
Reply:no offense at all, this is why I have posted the question. As far as power in my "home" shop I have 220v 50amp service. Current projects that I have planned are making some railings and leaning post for my boat, either in stainless or aluminum. As far as session times - who knows - I would assume they would be short durations on this project.As trusting the water cooler - all that I can say is the current owner says it works great.The prices are $1500 for the Precision 225 and $1800 for the Syncrowave 200To throw more confusion in I also just came across a Dynasty 200 DX with a contractor kit and 80cf bottle, 2 years old and used in a home shop working on restoring his muscle car. For $2000
Reply:They Dynasty could be a game changer here.Matt
Reply:If all your going to do is a couple of little projects- you could buy a brand new Miller Diversion for less than you're looking to pay for a used machine.  It is an AC TIG which will do your aluminum and if you aren't experienced with TIG, it will probably be a lot more forgiving than trying to learn the more complicated machines mentioned above.You haven't elaborated much on how heavy the aluminum is that you're going to be welding.  Do you really need the power of those machines or would the Diversion be more appropriate?     Notice the prices:  $1500, 1800, 2000.   Each (better) machine is just a bit more.  What you're starting to realize is what most of us that own TIG machines went thorugh- "Well, for just a few hundred more, I could get a....".  If you're not careful, you can easily get caught up with the sparkle of a machine that has lots of features you'll never need or use.   If you've got lots of money, nothing beats a Dynasty so go ahead and get it and you'll be happy.  But if you're smart, you'll evaluate what you really NEED and if it's just a couple of jobs with some light gauge stuff- be realistic and go with something smaller.  The nice thing about buying a new Miller is that they hold their value pretty well.  Also, just a caveat emptor tip: if you ARE considering buying a used Dynasty or Syncrowave, both will tell you the total "on-time" and number of arcs struck in the machine's lifetime.  And it seems like every one on Craigslist has "only been used twice".   Ya right!  Learn which button combinations give you the history (check the online manuals) and you won't have to take the guy's word for how much use it has seen.  Good luck.  Oh, and if you're new to TIG, you'll be back here a lot- so please take the time to update your profile and at the very least, add your location so the rest of us can see where you're from.  Cheers,Lincoln AC225 & MigPak 140, Lincoln Magnum SpoolGun, Miller Spectrum 375-X Plasma, Syncrowave 200 TIG, Millermatic 252 MIG, Miller Digital Elite, General 7x12" horiz/vert bandsaw, 3' box/pan brake, 20 ton press, milling machine, 12x28 lathe, etc.
Reply:Thanks for the replies and all very good points which some I have considered. A new diversion would work and I can appreciate the more simple set up over one that would be more complicated but, I am hesitant on buying something that I fear would be working at some of my limits right off and then have out grown before I even started which is something that I hear more times than not on the entry level units.The aluminum that I would be working with would be basically schedule 40 pipe, stainless would be 18ga to 12gaMillermatic 251Bridgeport 12x36Clausing Colchester 15x36HTP 625
Reply:For a new tigger, I would stick with the transformer machines.The Dynasty 200 being 2 years old and without Blue Lightning and the additional waveforms does not sound like a "great" deal to me.Because of the established durability of the transformer machines, I have no problem recommending going used on those machines.  You stand a much better chance of getting your money back down the road if you decide to upgrade.  That's not to say that the Dynasty is not a reliable machine, it's just that the inverters, when out of warranty, can be more expensive to repair.I've done the type of work you are thinking about (marine repair/fabrication) for quite some time.  I've used the Syncrowave 250 since 1977, and never felt limited because of the machine.  Last year I added a Dynasty 200 DX to the stable and have been very happy with the machine.  The portability and 120v capability have come in very handy.Learn to tig weld well before you start worrying about all the "bells and whistles" that the new inverters offer.  In fact, on one hand I think they may be more confusing to a new tigger.  Instead of focusing on developing technique, the new tigger is constantly "fooling with the machine" trying to get it to compensate for his lack of experience.If you find yourself doing much aluminum at all, you'll want a water cooled torch.A 20/40 cu ft bottle is almost useless for tig welding.  It would make a good "backup bottle" but is too limited for serious tig work.  Tig, with preflow and postflow, uses more gas than a small mig which you may be familar with.  The smallest bottle I have filled with argon is a 125 and it's a portable/backup bottle.  There's a 330 feeding both of my tig rigs.As far as Miller/Lincoln that has to be your call.  Which is the predominant brand in your area, and who does the service/provide parts.  In my area Miller is king for shop machines and the service is excellent.Do both the machines have the pulse feature installed.  I know the later model Sync 200's come standard with it.  You'll find that feature beneficial if you get into SS handrails, etc.Hope that helps.PS.  Guess you were posting while I was typing.  See that you're in DC.  You have an excellent Miller service facility (BR Welding) located down in White Plains, MD (near LaPlata).  The owner, Bob or his son Brant, are very easy to deal with.I'm about 3 hrs away from you, but if you wanted to take a "day trip" I'd be happy to put you on both a Sync 250 and a Dynasty 200 so you can get a feel for the machines.Last edited by SundownIII; 06-13-2010 at 12:44 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Good on you Sundown, offering to help this fellow.When I went over you old posts I noticed there were just two things missing;1. any hint of kindness2. photos of your work.This is  a big change of heart coming from you and I like it. If I have in some small way been part of this, I feel I've accomplished something here
Reply:Worntorn,Being kind/nice on a welding board is not my fortay.  I'd rather be blunt and accurate than nice and wrong any day.  Some of that, I'm sure, comes from my military background.  Working in the special ops arena for as long as I did teaches you that too often nice guys don't make it.If you read more of my posts, you'll find that I may be called out for being too pointed or critical but not because my recommendations are wrong.I've never felt it necessary to post a lot of pictures of my work.  There are photos out there but most of them are of projects I've built for myself.  Most of the time I don't take the time (don't keep a camera in the shop) to take pictures of customer's work.  Not so sure some of my owners would want pictures of their "possessions" floating all over the internet.Besides, I'm not here to try to "impress" anyone.  I'm here to try to maybe pass on a little of the information/knowledge gained in over 55 years of welding.  My reputation in the area is what puts customers (paying ones) at my shop door, not photos on the net.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:if you gonna do much aluminum, you need the watercooled torch. seems a shame to buy a cart(runner option)  when you canmake abetter one .i have a inverter machine and never use most of the features. but the portability has been nice a few times.
Reply:deny away, I think the hard exterior is melting and a new softer gentler Sundown is emerging.QUOTE=SundownIII;400162]Worntorn,Being kind/nice on a welding board is not my fortay.  I'd rather be blunt and accurate than nice and wrong any day.  Some of that, I'm sure, comes from my military background.  Working in the special ops arena for as long as I did teaches you that too often nice guys don't make it.If you read more of my posts, you'll find that I may be called out for being too pointed or critical but not because my recommendations are wrong.I've never felt it necessary to post a lot of pictures of my work.  There are photos out there but most of them are of projects I've built for myself.  Most of the time I don't take the time (don't keep a camera in the shop) to take pictures of customer's work.  Not so sure some of my owners would want pictures of their "possessions" floating all over the internet.Besides, I'm not here to try to "impress" anyone.  I'm here to try to maybe pass on a little of the information/knowledge gained in over 55 years of welding.  My reputation in the area is what puts customers (paying ones) at my shop door, not photos on the net.[/QUOTE]
Reply:If you believe that for one second, you'd be wrong again.You need to go back and read more posts.  Gentle is not in my vocabulary.Always call a spade a spade.  (actually that's for political correctness--in real life I call a spade a fulking shovel)Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Sundown I appreciate the offer to do a test drive on your units, I may take you up on it if I can find time work schedule. I have ordered a few items from BR Welding, haven't met them in person but their shipping was fast and the prices were right.You said you have done some marine fabrication, so in your opinion will the Sycnro 200 or the Precision 225 have enough power for those types of projects or should I be looking for a 250?Millermatic 251Bridgeport 12x36Clausing Colchester 15x36HTP 625
Reply:Dustpan,Without knowing what it is that you're planning to do, it's a tough question to answer.The Sync 200 would do a high percentage of the aluminum welding I do.  Where it (and the Dynasty 200 even) come up a little short, particularly in duty cycle, is in doing bump welding on anodized aluminum.  Here I'm running at about 200A with a pretty high duty cycle.  For short term work, you could probably get by.Stainless steel is another story altogether.  The Sync 200 will do just about everything I can imagine you'd encounter on a boat.For really heavy aluminum work (engine beds/motor mounts) I'll use an argon/helium mix to bump up the arc temp.  Either that or use the spoolgun and pulsed mig but that's another whole different animal.If you wish, you can PM me a phone # and a good time to call and I'd be happy to discuss your requirements with you.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Sundown, I forgot to mention that there is no such word as fortay.I think you mean forte,  which is a correct English usage for the French word for fort or strength. It is also used in music in much the same way.I normally don't bother to correct internet spelling as it is bad manners, (that and my own spelling  isn't great anymore) except in going through your posts  I  noticed you ridiculed some poor fellow for spelling agon as argone.   You must be a real stickler for correct spelling, so I thought you would appreciate the tip.