HELP I'm Breaking Bandsaw Blades

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I have the 4x6 HF band saw. Have had it a few years It always seemed to be hard on blades but I could live with it. BUT lately it has gotten hungry for blades. There is not vibration to speak of.It cuts pretty straight.I have the blade speed at medium.I have been playing around with the spring to adjust the feed rate.Everything seems straight and no binding.I mostly cut 1/8-3/16 thick square tubing stock.What blades and TPI do you recommended?Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Breaking blades can be dangerous, particularly if you're too busy to pay attention and do it right; send them all to me and I'll break them for you!You generally want 2 or 3 teeth cutting all the time. If the tooth count is too small, the cutting isn't steady, the teeth 'come and go' and the teeth dig in too deeply and get ripped off easier. If the count is too great, the chip room is too small, too many teeth are cutting at one time so the pressure per tooth is too little or the total pressure is too great for the blade size.
Reply:Have you looked the broken blades over reall good at all to see what yu can see? Things like cracks between the flutes, missing teeth, breaking near the welded seam, things like that. Feel it to see if the set is gone off one side or the other on a broken one. Lots of little clues as to what might be going on. The clamping can have a big effect too."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by ReebsI have the 4x6 HF band saw. Have had it a few years It always seemed to be hard on blades but I could live with it. BUT lately it has gotten hungry for blades. There is not vibration to speak of.It cuts pretty straight.I have the blade speed at medium.I have been playing around with the spring to adjust the feed rate.Everything seems straight and no binding.I mostly cut 1/8-3/16 thick square tubing stock.What blades and TPI do you recommended?
Reply:If you go to the Yahoo Group 4x6 bandsaw group and read the files entry, they have a very complete and thorough set up and adjustment procedure that will eliminate the issue or reduce it to a manageable level.  All of the HF saws seemed to need tweaking and the procedure takes all of the adjustments and  tweks and combines them into a very workable solution.  It works on all of the Rong-Fu and many of the others supplied by HF, Jet, Northern and so on.  Give em a look, I'll bet it gets ya going and cutting straight too.  Also a good quality blade (Not HF) will help once you get it tweaked.  I switched to a bi-metal 14-18 TPI blade after I did it to mine and Voila" no more broken blades or crooked cuts.  It's a pretty quick and painless operation to get it set up and cutting good again.  And the 2 drawer file cabinet stand idea is a good way to put a coolant system on and keep it nice and organized, along with a hydraulic downfeed which is nice too.BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:If alignement issues are not at fault, over tightening the HF cheapo blades, will lead to blade breakage.  Bi-metal blades will withstand greater tension without breaking.
Reply:Thanks guys. I will look into the yahoo group.I have been using quality blades all along.Some have been too fine but a quality blade. William McCormick is probably on track. The guide felt a little lose.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:What blades are you using? If they are HF blades, that's your problem, you need some good quality ones......Synchowave 180SD  Bernard 3500SS water coolerMillermatic 200Parker Plasma Tec 40dvOperating Engineers Local 12
Reply:Some of the blades are Morse bimetal - Olson hardback.I joined the yahoo group (waiting for approval) see if they can help.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Are you using a stop to make multiple  cuts.  Sometimes if you use the stop, It causes binding when the parts breaks free, it goes diagonal slightly.  How does your blade sound? listen for changes.Too where are the blades breaking.  Perhaps you can a local fabricator to make one and see it there is a difference.
Reply:I have the same saw and have had good luck with blades that I have gotten from Fastenal.  I put a blade on from Home depot and it broke withing 15 min of installation. Although that was def my fault because I had it over tensioned and the guide bearings were out of whack.  I also use the 14-18 tpi bi metal blades and generally get about 10' of cutting out of them on 1/4" stock.  Funny question, but are you using lube?HAHA I find that I get a lot more mileage out of my blades applying a generous amount of cutting oil every min or 2 while cutting something.From my experience the down pressure is a big factor in the lifetime of a blade.  You want to cut fast enough to see chips flying but without hearing the machine work too hard.  There is a balance where you want the blade to do the work without having too much pressure on it.  I generally see no more that an 1/8" of wander on a 4" cut... more wander than that and you prob have too much pressure on the blade.
Reply:I may have fixed it! It was (I hope) embarrassingly simple. The INNER BLADE GUIDE BEARING (portion that would pressure on the blade) was coming out of contact with the blade when I tightened the GUIDE ADJUSTING KNOB. Thus the blade was being supported by the blade wheel and the other bearing.I have a very dull blade on it know and it is working. Time will tell.Thanks for all the help.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Glad you found it.  The 4x6 group is still the place to go to get info on everything bandsaw.  Once you get approved, they have all manner of tips and tricks to extend the life of every part of the saw and get the max out of blades.  The part I like is the zero cost upgrades.  I also love the 2 drawer file cabinet stand.  It eliminates the inherent instability and makes a really organized way to install a flood coolant system and keep other spares all together readily accesable.  They also have a hydraulic feed upgrade that is the cats a$$ for making lots of cuts in stainless or other work hardened materials.  Have fun and hope this helps...BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:would you reconminde this product for buying im looking to buy one. but i was thinking about putting a real companys blade on there like dewalt or something good. idk if dewalt makes those blades im just saying lol
Reply:Grizzly, starret and many other make a good blade.  The key for me was a bi-metal variable pitch so I alway had a minimum of three teeth in contact at all times.  Thin wall tube is the hardest to keep enough teeth engaged, but you can use a wood block to back up tour cut and it wll help a lot to keep chatter and binding to a minimum.  Any good quality bi-metal blade will be head and shoulders above the junk they come with.  When I bought mine, I trued every thing up with the OE and replaced it before I ever cut anything that I planned to use for a project.  Had it for almost 5 years and been happy with the performance after I got it dialed in.BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:Glad to read that the you are up and running! Guides are deceptive culprits. Feed pressure is almost as bad as it leads to tooth gullet filling and galling, or skipping and dulling.       I will check into the 4x6 group, sounds like a lot of good ideas.      ENCO and MSC are good sources for blades,  multiple price points etc.      With the little wheels on these saws, the thinner the blade the less fatigue they get from bending. A carbon steel Starrett 14 tooth blade isn't optimum for this material, but is many times the cheapest pitch. My biggest problem over the years has been tooth stripping, not breakage, with purchased blades. -When the blade breaks  it gets blamed on root cracks from the broken teeth. The problem with stripping was worse in thicker materials and was due to the tooth gullet filling and the chip galling to the sides of the cut, work hardening, and welding in. (A courser blade has bigger gullets and doesn't fill as fast.)  This happens with aluminum and steel. Mostly when a thick chunk or rail road rail chunk is put in with a 14 tooth blade because that is what is in the saw.... Lube helps but doesn't prevent it. Under these conditions the teeth have no chance but break, then they seem to loose a tooth each time around until the blade is about half smooth.past work toys; lathes,mills, drills, saws,  robots, lasers ironworker, shears, brake, press, grinders, tensile tester,  torches, tigs, migs, sticks, platten table, positioner,  plasmas , gleeble and spot. Retired June 30, 2009.
Reply:They even make carbide tooth blade bandsaw blades now. Ha-ha. I have never tried one. Awisco carries them. But with the right speed a fairly fine blade, and a very thick band saw blade access cover in the table, you can cut stainless steel for days on end with one blade. The secret is the beefed up table cutout. It does not allow the work to move with the blade. In sheet metal shops they often employ a raised area on the table that you lay the work on. It is over a half inch thick. It is nice because you can get your fingers under stacks of sheet metal and cut many at a time. It makes the blade last 50 times longer then on a standard band saw.It is very much like machining. If your work slips in the chuck, or your lathe slows to a stop, you usually chip your cutter in the machine lathe. Even accidentally shutting off the lathe will ruin a cutter. You always back off the cutter before you stop the lathe.  If your band saw table, allows the work to move downward, the blade will stick to the work. And then break the teeth off, or dull the blade. Some of the band saw blade access plates, are so thin that they let the work move, and you get that chatter. That is when you get a messed up blade. I am talking about upright band saws.But that is why a more expensive horizontal band saw has a very beefed up vise. To stop any possible movement of the work.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Thanks for the input guy's. I hope to do a few things this weekend. I will post if all goes good or bad. I was teaching a workshop in Columbus, 110 miles one way. The last 2.5 weeks have been as follows: get up at 5:00am - teach from 8-4 - discuss the next day's events/schedule read evaluations - drive to the school drop off a load of materials and pick up another load.Back to the band saw. I stated in a previous post "I think I fixed it” The problem arouse because I was trying to release stress on the blade my having the two "support bearings" close together. This actually made the problem worse.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio