MM252: can I run in spray mode?

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I just invested in a Millermatic 252. Nice machine. I put a 450A Tregaskiss Toughgun on it because I had one and I like it and because of a recommendation from a local welding school. That gun is supposed to be able to stand up to anything the MM252 can put out, 100% duty cycle. I'm wondering if it's possible to run my machine in spray mode. Certainly the voltage/current charts provided by Miller assume SC mode. I was able to get my old MM250 into spray mode once by turning it all the way up. Haven't tried that with the MM252. Do I need a different shielding gas?metalmagpie
Reply:As far as gas, yes you need a different gas than 75/25. General rule IIRC for spray is 10 % or less CO2. The tech school runs 92/8 and we can spray .035 off the XMT 304's if need be. It will also do a fair job on short circuit as well as long as the machine has enough voltage to run it. Your MM252 should, at least with smaller wires..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Yep you can get there with 0.8mm or maybe even with 1mm wire and 85/15 or 90/10 mix
Reply:Hello matalmagpie, if you were intestested in solely producing spray transfer with the maximum weld metal output from your machine go with 98%argon/2%O2 shielding gas and .045 metal core wire. The 98/2 shielding gas yields the highest energy across the arc capability and the .045 metal core wire yields the highest deposition rate short of switching to a gas-shielded/fluxcore combination and it is arguable that the metal core has an even higher deposition rate than the flux-core/gas-shielded wires. A little bit on the metal-core wire, since the core make-up of this wire is a metal powder and the outer sheath is tubular, it melts with less energy than a solid wire and pretty much the entire make-up of the wire becomes weld metal. Just a couple of items for your consideration. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Lincoln MC-706 METAL SHIELD .045Lincoln 355m,  pulsed spray . wfs 420, trim .96, wave control +0, 26-28volts. Straight and steady. No weave. Stay at they tip of the puddle. Travel speed, arc length (tip to contact 3/8"-5/8"), and angle and you got it beat.  Chill out,steady, watch the puddle and the arc. Sent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk Attached Images
Reply:I have no problem getting my 200 amp machine with 85 / 15 shielding gas and 0.8 mm wire into spray transfer; have to try it with 1.0 mm wire though.Regards, Peterwww.petermoll.nl
Reply:I run 90 argon/8 CO2/2 OXY airgas calls it steel mix gold running.045 wire @390 IPM at 28 - 30 volts...get a heat shield for your glove and turn you AD to 12 or 14 and have funBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:My friend who is a professional machinist who does some welding, does spray transfer on larger parts. He uses a MM200 with a mix and it does very nice welds. I think that the performance of the MM252 is similar to a MM200 so I don't see any problem doing spray transfer with an MM252 with the right gas and proper settings. If I can locate some gas, I'd like to try spray transfer.Last edited by gnm109; 12-15-2013 at 09:35 PM.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:I hope he's not using that argon/helium mix with steel. A few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedI hope he's not using that argon/helium mix with steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by mike.KnapkeLincoln MC-706 METAL SHIELD .045Lincoln 355m,  pulsed spray . wfs 420, trim .96, wave control +0, 26-28volts. Straight and steady. No weave. Stay at they tip of the puddle. Travel speed, arc length (tip to contact 3/8"-5/8"), and angle and you got it beat.  Chill out,steady, watch the puddle and the arc. Sent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk
Reply:@ metalmagpie - MM252 rated to 200A @ 28 VDC (60% duty cycle) and 250A @  28V DC (40% duty cycle).  Capable of axial spray.  Baseline settings from Lincoln & Miller literature:Lincoln:  1/4" mild steel, 90Ar/10CO2 gas @ 40 CFH ----> 0.035 wire (23 V, 400 imp, 200A); 0.045 wire (24 V, 350 imp, 285 A)Miller: 1/4" mild steel, 98Ar/2O2 gas @ 40 CFH -----> 0.035 wire (24.5 V, 370 imp, 180A); 0.045 wire (25 V, 190 ipm, 185 A)Miller: 1/8" mild steel, 98Ar/2O2 gas @ 40 CFH -----> 0.035 wire (23.5 V, 330 imp, 165A); 0.045 wire (24 V, 170 imp, 165 A)Recommend trying 0.035 wire with 90/10 shielding.  Don't think of 26V as the "magic number" to go from SC to SA.  The above data shows you can achieve spray arc with less than 26 volts.  The arc transitions from short circuit to globular transfer to axial spray transfer as the voltage steadily increases.  The exact voltage at which axial spray occurs will vary according to your machine's characteristics, V & WFS, and shielding gas used.  Ionization energy."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:update- at work I did some welding on some steel tubes with wall thickness of 5mm. I was able to get spray tranfer with 1mm wire, 25V and 82/18 ar/co2 mix. I was getting aprox. 220amps.
Reply:Super arc. ..since you asked...its triple pass. And yes the silica is on it still. May look like a blob to you I guess. Thats ok, youre entitled to your opinion (just think its hard to get an honest evaluation when youre looking at a picture that is unclean from across the country!! Haha its all good.  Can I see your work?) Ill post better picture...hold onSent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk
Reply:Super arc Hows that? Triple pass. Same settings.  Clean(er)Sent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk Attached Images
Reply:Keep in mind... its a flat weld. On a ladder 10 feet in the air.  triple pass. 3 continuous welds around tube. Let me knowSent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk
Reply:Yes I know super arc, still silica.  Look past it. Im told to leave it on the final pass because it gets blasted and it would take too much time to clean every final pass. I posted pics to get opinions with advice, not criticism unles its positiveSent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk Attached Images
Reply:It looks fine to me. Posting photos of welds is a magnet for criticism.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Thanks I understood that its a magnet for that..but come on guys, we are not competing with each other or trying to prove we are better than the next guy. Lets face it, we all share the common bond of our trade, and we can help each other get better by positive criticism or advice. Not tearing each others work apart. Jusy my thoughts. Could be wrong but I believe we can all learn from each other and excel at our trade. ThanksSent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk
Reply:@ Mike K - looks good brah! Blaze on."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Thanks broSent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by mike.KnapkeSuper arc. ..since you asked...its triple pass. And yes the silica is on it still. May look like a blob to you I guess. Thats ok, youre entitled to your opinion (just think its hard to get an honest evaluation when youre looking at a picture that is unclean from across the country!! Haha its all good.  Can I see your work?) Ill post better picture...hold onSent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk
Reply:Hey brother no apology necessary. I have yet to meet anyone who can lay down perfect beads everytime. I think youre selling yourself short when you knock your own work.  Im sure youre better than you believe.  There is much to learn about welding.  As time goes on I realize how much I don't know.  6 months ago was the first time I ever used pulse spray on steel and first time i even heard of metal core wire.  All new to me.  I posted them for input on what exactly i can do to do better. I appreciate the apology even though i know you meant no harm by it. On vacation in seattle now and somehow I managed to score a welding test with the boiler makers/shipbuilders union. ..tomorrow at 9am!! Amazing.  But I know they run everything from 6g tig to fcaw, MCAW, SMAW. Need any advice i can get cuz i don't want to be unprepared. Hope I didn't sound too defensive. ..Cuz that wasn't my intention.  Just saying there are things i can learn from you and there are thimgs you can learn from me. We are to help each other excel.  Thats why I put all settings as well as pics so anyome more experienced could say "turn your wave control to +3.5 and it will penetrate a little better" .. etc. You know what im saying? All good bro. No offense taken.  Thanks again and Merry Christmas brother. Have a good oneSent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by mike.KnapkeHey brother no apology necessary. I have yet to meet anyone who can lay down perfect beads everytime. I think youre selling yourself short when you knock your own work.  Im sure youre better than you believe.  There is much to learn about welding.  As time goes on I realize how much I don't know.  6 months ago was the first time I ever used pulse spray on steel and first time i even heard of metal core wire.  All new to me.  I posted them for input on what exactly i can do to do better. I appreciate the apology even though i know you meant no harm by it. On vacation in seattle now and somehow I managed to score a welding test with the boiler makers/shipbuilders union. ..tomorrow at 9am!! Amazing.  But I know they run everything from 6g tig to fcaw, MCAW, SMAW. Need any advice i can get cuz i don't want to be unprepared. Hope I didn't sound too defensive. ..Cuz that wasn't my intention.  Just saying there are things i can learn from you and there are thimgs you can learn from me. We are to help each other excel.  Thats why I put all settings as well as pics so anyome more experienced could say "turn your wave control to +3.5 and it will penetrate a little better" .. etc. You know what im saying? All good bro. No offense taken.  Thanks again and Merry Christmas brother. Have a good oneSent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk