Oxy/Propane torch WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

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I finally got a chance to light my new torch because of rain delaysI have watched the smith videos on alternative fuel lighting and operation but for some reason just cant get it right.Victor Performer torch with #1 GPN tip, 12.5' of 3/16" hose and Western Q.D.'s on regulator and torch side.I have the regulators set at the suggested pressures listed on the chart that came with the torch. The fuel is open 1/4 turn to light and open another 1/2 turn after lit. Problem #1 is that the flame kind of blows away in the wind. When oxygen is added, I can barely see the flame. I turn the fuel up and add oxygen and am not getting that "jet engine" sound like all the videos show. I know the torch is way out of adjustment but when placed close to the plate I do get a small star pattern. The tip changed color and the head was hot after 5 minutes of being lit which is making me think there is not enough pressure to keep the flame off of the tip. I would like to keep the q.d.'s on but are they adding too much restriction? If so, how much psi should I increase with this hose and moving to the 25' hose.I did make some cuts on an old rusty 3/8" thick H beam and they came out ok with little slag on the bottom.This is my first time with O/P so be prepared for some stupid questions.TOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:Pic of the cut Attached ImagesTOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:I had to switch the rosebud for propane but can the acetylene welding tip be used for smaller heating and brazing?TOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:Hard to make suggestions without knowing what you have now.  What pressures are you running your fuel and oxygen at?  Can you take a picture of the flame, without the cutting lever depressed, and again with it depressed?  Or even take a short video of you lighting and adjusting the torch.Propane-fired flames do blow out easier in the wind, and are a little trickier to get set.  You can get the flame to stay lit by holding it out of the wind, or alongside a piece of metal while you're adding oxygen.  Too much fuel at first and the addition of oxygen will snuff it out.  This is something you'll get the hang of for your particular torch and pressure settings.FWIW, a lot of us here have converted to propane and are happy with our choice.  You will be, too, if you stick with it past the learning curve.EDIT:  On your second question, I can't help you with the old acetylene welding tips, but I can tell you that it's unlikely you'll need a rosebud for heating with propane (unless you just want one) -- just buy a large cutting tip and crank the pressures up some more.  Since propane doesn't become unstable at 15 psi like acetylene does, a single tip is much more versatile.Last edited by tbone550; 12-29-2013 at 04:57 PM.
Reply:Thanks Tbone, I had the oxygen at 35psi and the fuel at 6psi using Edge series regulators.I will get some pictures tomorrow after work.TOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:Originally Posted by Chris T.Thanks Tbone, I had the oxygen at 35psi and the fuel at 6psi using Edge series regulators.I will get some pictures tomorrow after work.
Reply:In my experience with torches the O2 is usually set to 35psi and you can't by the 1/4 or 1/2 turn stuff. You need to just get a feel for it. Light the propane first close down on the valve until the flame makes contact with the tip. If there is a gap between the tip and the flame it's almost certain to blow out. Once you do that, SLOWLY crack the o2 and introduce more propane. You will need to go back and fourth between the two to keep balance.MAPP gas also burns hotter but cost a little more.It's also not always possible to start it the "proper" way in a wind condition. The fuel flame blows out easier than a birthday candle without the jet of o2. Once you get a feel for it you will know how much to crack both open so that you can start with a jet flame from the start. It makes a satisfyijg Pop when you get it right
Reply:Yeah, too much information and confusion in your first post about o/P.   I'm confused as to what problems you're having exactly with o/p because you were kind of all over the map.  All I can suggest is you watch more YouTube vids or find someone that's been experienced in it.  I made the conversion from o/a to o/p with ZERO previous experience on the o/p.  I adjusted to the process quickly and fairly simply.  Don't get discouragd about it.  Hang in there and just find someone that's used the system before.   Once you get the hang  of 0/p, you'll wonder why you didn't make the shift years ago.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcYeah, too much information and confusion in your first post about o/P.   I'm confused as to what problems you're having exactly with o/p because you were kind of all over the map.  All I can suggest is you watch more YouTube vids or find someone that's been experienced in it.  I made the conversion from o/a to o/p with ZERO previous experience on the o/p.  I adjusted to the process quickly and fairly simply.  Don't get discouragd about it.  Hang in there and just find someone that's used the system before.   Once you get the hang  of 0/p, you'll wonder why you didn't make the shift years ago.
Reply:From the sounds of it I don't think you're opening the fuel valve enough. You can't really go by 1/4 turn 1/2 turn except maybe for lighting. You need to go by the flame. If you can't see it with goggles on (probably out in the sunlight I assume). Then you need to look at it with out dark glasses. You don't have to have the dark glasses till you start cutting.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:First, the brightness of a oxy/propane flame is not as intense as oxy/acetylene. I just wear my ordinary sun/safety glasses, (chalk another one up for propane) so that explains why you were having trouble seeing it.I run my pressures at 10 & 30 or if I'm cutting thicker steel 10 & 40, or somewhere in between. To me there are two ways to light propane. One, turn the fuel and the oxy on a little, strike it, and bounce back and forth, a little more fuel, a little more oxy, until you get it set. This is the preferred way, especially in wind. Two, turn on fuel, not cranked but more than a little, and slowly add oxy, while holding the tip very close to a piece of steel, until you hear the "pop", then make your final adjustments. Propane burns very clean as far as cutting. Here is a thread I recently made, to show how awesome it is. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...uot&highlight="Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Crank the Propane open, add more Oxygen.The flame/cone should be out where you can see it.My flame is scary till I start the Oxygen in.It usually "Pops" out, then I just relight adding a little more Oxygen.Then usually pull back on the Propane or Oxygen depending on what it needs.If the tip is heating the cone is too short and burning close to the tip.You can not run Propane thru an Acetylene tip as the mixing ratios are not correct.
Reply:I greatly appreciate the assistance with this, I think that some progress may have been made tonight. I will say that using it when it's getting dark makes things a lot easier to see.Here is what I did,-Turned the pressures up OXY@37  PROPANE@7-8 With the difference noticed, I feel that it could be bumped up a little more.-Kept the torch facing the ground, cracked the fuel and lit. Opened the fuel to just before it wanted to jump off the tip. -Added oxygen to where it made a small pop and the flame changed. Continued to add fuel and oxygen until opening the fuel valve more did not make any change. I now started to get the "roar" of the flame.-Depressed the cutting lever and adjusted the oxygen until the points of the flame stayed the same length and just got brighter.-The picture of the flame is a little hard to see. Kind of a challenge to hold the torch and camera steady enough.-The star pattern picture, the points were about 2" diameter while holding the torch about 1/2" away and they were fairly defined. I feel that I was holding the torch too close when cutting because the pre-heat flame was kind of hiding the cut line. Probably could have slowed down a little.-The cut picture was some rusty 3/8" plate. Attached ImagesTOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:Try grinding some of the rust off. I have difficulty cutting through rust with torches. I also have to run about 10 on propane. It just takes practice keep at it it will get better. Someone told me a long time agao the hottest part is just beyond the blue don't run to close .Good luck.
Reply:Originally Posted by Chris T.I greatly appreciate the assistance with this, I think that some progress may have been made tonight. I will say that using it when it's getting dark makes things a lot easier to see.Here is what I did,-Turned the pressures up OXY@37  PROPANE@7-8 With the difference noticed, I feel that it could be bumped up a little more.-Kept the torch facing the ground, cracked the fuel and lit. Opened the fuel to just before it wanted to jump off the tip. -Added oxygen to where it made a small pop and the flame changed. Continued to add fuel and oxygen until opening the fuel valve more did not make any change. I now started to get the "roar" of the flame.-Depressed the cutting lever and adjusted the oxygen until the points of the flame stayed the same length and just got brighter.-The picture of the flame is a little hard to see. Kind of a challenge to hold the torch and camera steady enough.-The star pattern picture, the points were about 2" diameter while holding the torch about 1/2" away and they were fairly defined. I feel that I was holding the torch too close when cutting because the pre-heat flame was kind of hiding the cut line. Probably could have slowed down a little.-The cut picture was some rusty 3/8" plate.
Reply:The cut is too "hot" for 3/8".To improve cut quality by reducing "melt" either dial down settings, speed up the travel, or change to a smaller tip.For rusty metal and short irregular cuts a "too large" tip is useful, so IMHO a combination of dialing down and speeding up travel would be preferred to a smaller tip. Tipping the torch for the burn to have a slight lead at the bottom is helpful for cutting with such less-than-ideal prep and conditions; pushes the preheat ahead to allow for quicker travel too.Torch control looks excellent.You're doing well, Chris T., keep at it.Last edited by denrep; 12-30-2013 at 11:48 PM.
Reply:what den rep said.  You can tell by the melted top edge and the heavy slag underneath.  you should raise you cutting head  further away from the plate as you cut.  further than you would A/O.  keep practicing.  You will get the hang of it.
Reply:I also vote for too much preheat.   I have the habit of laying the unlit torch down on the plate at a low 30 degtrees then striking up the flame.  This way my initial flame does not blow out.  I lay the torch resting, open the fuel, strike up, add oxy then lift the torch off the surface.
Reply:Why is it that every single noob trying to weld, cut or any other damn thing is screwing around with filthy shlT  ?Get a damn wire wheel and clean that crap up. The other is screwing around running beads all over flat steel. The idea of welding is to mate 2 pieces of steel together and I aint talkin about a beenie weenie can to a fhuhkeen leaf spring .Take up knitting Another one that kills me is first time stick welders that never heard of a clamp, chasing chit all over a table. Last edited by Burpee; 12-31-2013 at 02:55 AM.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by BurpeeWhy is it that every single noob trying to weld, cut or any other damn thing is screwing around with filthy shlT  ?Get a damn wire wheel and clean that crap up. The other is screwing around running beads all over flat steel. The idea of welding is to mate 2 pieces of steel together and I aint talkin about a beenie weenie can to a fhuhkeen leaf spring .Take up knitting Another one that kills me is first time stick welders that never heard of a clamp, chasing chit all over a table.
Reply:Originally Posted by BurpeeWhy is it that every single noob trying to weld, cut or any other damn thing is screwing around with filthy shlT  ?Get a damn wire wheel and clean that crap up. The other is screwing around running beads all over flat steel. The idea of welding is to mate 2 pieces of steel together and I aint talkin about a beenie weenie can to a fhuhkeen leaf spring .Take up knitting Another one that kills me is first time stick welders that never heard of a clamp, chasing chit all over a table.
Reply:Someone get on your bad side Dave? Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPSomeone get on your bad side Dave?
Reply:Bashing the US of A! To bad George W still isn't in office, he'd make a believer out of him like he did Saddam Hussein!Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPBashing the US of A! To bad George W still isn't in office, he'd make a believer out of him like he did Saddam Hussein!Thanks for all of the CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS, I will put them to use. To clear things up, that was some scrap metal just to screw around with so therefore I did not feel the need to wire wheel it. I always clean my metal before welding and understand the importance of CLEAN. Sometimes it is not possible to work with entirely clean material when out in the field. I have ran many beads on a plate when I first started welding and I am by no means an expert but it did provide lots of learning with minimal material.Now that that's out of the way, I will fire it up again and make some more cuts. After all practice is keyTOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:There is a lot of good information in this thread (except for the jerk "Cutting/Welding God".  I was treated to a Propane/Oxygen Torch Kit for Christmas.  As of yet, I do not have my oxygen tank yet, and plan to use BBQ tanks for the propane.  As I heave read, I need to use the outter cone to heat the metal with propane.  Does anyone know where I can find a picture of a proper flame that shows this?  I have seen pictures but really only see 2 cones, the inner and the outside of the flame.  Just want to make sure I am not spinning my wheels from the start more than I need to.  And no, I haven't ever cut anything with a torch and am an amateur welder (thank goodness for gridning wheels...  Thanks in advance for any info you can share.
Reply:I am still in the learning stage and will probably be there for a while. The thing that helped me get it adjusted was using it when the sun was just going down, really easier to see things at first and now I'm getting it close by the sound and fine tuning the oxy by the points of the flame. I have not seen any pictures of a proper oxy/prop flame and all of the welding books seem to only have o/a info.TOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:Originally Posted by BurpeeWhy is it that every single noob trying to weld, cut or any other damn thing is screwing around with filthy shlT  ?Get a damn wire wheel and clean that crap up. The other is screwing around running beads all over flat steel. The idea of welding is to mate 2 pieces of steel together and I aint talkin about a beenie weenie can to a fhuhkeen leaf spring .Take up knitting Another one that kills me is first time stick welders that never heard of a clamp, chasing chit all over a table.
Reply:Lets be nice , clean material , soap stone a line and use a angle to cut straight . The gauge settings are approximate sight and sound are best .Dont try and set with cutting glases on. We use nat gas and have cut 17 inches thick with a machine torch.