Weird Hiring Discussion

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I got to talking with a friend last night, who works at an iron works. Well, let's call it an iron works anyway. Apparently they're hiring welders, but they've got this thing where the new hires get put on the band saw or some other prep work instead of actually welding.Which seems really weird and possibly stupid, because the guy on the band saw isn't going to be getting any better at welding while he's cutting all that metal. If he doesn't have equipment at home to practice with, he might even fail a weld test when they finally do get around to giving him one. Then they go out and hire a "real welder," when he could've passed if they'd given it to him when they hired him.Does that make any sense? Is this a shop I should even consider working for?
Reply:This may be part of there screen out process. If you hang in there and show good work ethic next open spot for welders could be yours. Make friends with the welders and practice during break. If this is your only job offer, its a start till a better deal comes up. Most jobs the guys that are top of there field and making $$$ ,all started at the bottom and paid there dues .
Reply:Got to start somewhere.  Every job I've had so far (less than year)in the industry has been working my *** off, grinding a **** load and fetching tools.  But I do get to weld at times.  Sometimes you got to put the time in.
Reply:Business size plays a big part in what people get hired to do. In a big company, most have a dedicated job. You weld, some one else does, prep, another person unloads the trucks etc. In small businesses, everyone usually does everything. You might do all three of the above before lunch, then end up doing 2 other things before sweeping the floor before going home. Mid size businesses sort of fall between the two. A lot of times guys are hired for a specific job, say welding. They need welders for a job that is in the shop, or is coming up. However in the mean time, they simply don't have enough stuff for everyone to weld, so you might do something else.I'll also agree than many times the low man on the totem pole gets the $hit jobs. Many times it's to see how they handle things like this. In a small to medium sized business, I certainly don't want a worker who will stand there and say "that's not my job".  I used to stay gainfully employed thru the winter where I used to work, simply because I could do all sorts of things and wasn't afraid to do the nasty work when it had to get done. A couple of the guys who would get laid off when things were slow couldn't understand that it was their attitude that some things were beneath them that got them let go. For example on most jobs, they form and finish, but cleaning tools or loading the trucks "wasn't their job". That doesn't go over well when the boss is willing to jump in and do those jobs when it has to get done and he's the one with free time at that moment..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:My brother-n-law got hired at Livermore Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, right out of Hunters Point Naval shipyard. They do a lot of Electron Beam welding, and laser beam welding. The first year he was there all they let him do is make the coffee.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPMy brother-n-law got hired at Livermore Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, right out of Hunters Point Naval shipyard. They do a lot of Electron Beam welding, and laser beam welding. The first year he was there all they let him do is make the coffee.
Reply:Originally Posted by teh603Did he still have any welding skills when he got finished?
Reply:Well, go in there and give it a shot. Ask them what the deal is and see what they have to say. Set a game plan up in your head how long you plan to give it. How good is the pay? If it's above average for the area you live in, stick it out and see what happens. I don't really care what I do, as long as the pay is good, timely and I'm not getting screwed around.Being self employed, I'm willing to give anything a fair shake. I do however have set standards of what I expect the minimum to be. I'll give it some time and if it becomes apparent things aren't looking the way they should, I'll hit the road.This doesn't mean I bail out at the first sign of an issue, but at the same time if well established warning signs and trends start to surface, it's likely that this place isn't anywhere I want to put a lot into. Im pretty reasonable, and very willing to be flexible as long as I don't feel like I'm getting screwed around and payment for services is timely. Both of those items are major deal breakers for me and when it comes to those particular things, I usually have very little latitude.Especially on money. I'll give it one chance, I get screwed around twice, I'm done. No point in getting out on the arm several hundred bux then they start making excuses about cutting you a check.You won't know unless you give it a shot. Believe me man, I've worked in a couple places where I chased the carrot. One for quite some time before it became obvious they were playing me. I ended up getting another job down the road, but for what I was making, it wasn't a bad trade off. I just adjusted my effort level to correspond with their willingness to reciprocate. I didn't sandbag on them, but I didn't volunteer my abilities either unless I was specifically asked to do so, and it fell within what I felt was reasonable. Give it a chance. You got nothing to lose if you know what the deal is going in.IMHO of courseExpert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Seems everyone wants to start at the top..like someone takes a job at microsoft and wants bill gates salary off the start....they probably want to see how you work before letting you weld and cost them big bucks..if you cant prep what your going to weld one day then they probably dont want you..you have to crawl before you walk and walk  before you run... nothing gained or lost if you dont give em a shot...Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749I don't really care what I do, as long as the pay is good
Reply:Yeah, it don't bother me.I did maybe 20 years ago, but not anymore. I get what the dude is saying tho. After you have had a job or two where you put in the time, had the faith, bought the Company Line, then realized after some time and a great deal of effort, that they had you running on a treadmill chasing the carrot, it can affect future prospect outlooks. I've been there and know how that feels. But, you gotta get back on the horse and keep riding.Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:employee asks boss, whats my job entail? boss responds " whatever I want you to do since im paying you"....Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbemployee asks boss, whats my job entail? boss responds " whatever I want you to do since im paying you"....
Reply:Some days I'd much rather run a saw than weld if the pay is the same. Originally Posted by CEP For $25.00 an hour, and close to home, I'll pick up paper in the parking lot!
Reply:I spent 12 hours one day baby sitting a pump truck doing oil abatement at a sewer plant for the commercial dive company I was working for PT. Time and a half to sit in my truck and simply walk out every 1/2 hour or so and make sure the skimmer was still working. About 1/2 way thru the day we spent 10 minutes disconnecting the skimmer on the #1 basin and lugging the hose over and hooking up the 2nd skimmer in the #2 basin to start skimming that one.Boss told us to bring books, CD's or a TV and videos with us as it was going to be a long boring day. I could use more days like that. $25 an hour plus time and a half for 12 hours, plus an hour each way for travel. At least it was February and the smell wasn't all that bad as we parked up wind. Cold as all get out though, but you just ran the truck to get the heat going and it wasn't too bad..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:When this happened our company got the contract to secure the 3rd Lake Bridge. I got to set in the office and watch videos. Member here JAS had to set in a pickup and watch if the rest of the bridge was going to sink. He was suppose to radio me so I could make a phone call. He was bored out of his mind, so he kept calling me on the radio wanting to know what I was watching.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I remember watching that go "down" on TV. Pretty wild considering the number of time I crossed that bridge.
Reply:I was working in the back yard when that happened. My youngest daughter came out and said hey dad that bridge you worked on is sinking. I went in the house and watched the news. Laughed my a$$ off all day. About 10:00 P.M. that night I got the call to come save the 3rd Lake Bridge.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Didn't somebody "forget" to close the waterline hatches and the storm swells flooded the floating cells?
Reply:Pre cell phones CEP! That was fun, 7/12's night shift with not much to do except agitate CEP....1963 SA 200 Redface, rebuilt by me, bodywork by CEP Everlast 255EXT w/W300 coolerMiller 212 AutosetMiller Xtreme 375Bridgeport MillSouth Bend 9" Lathe
Reply:No the mid west contractor cut access holes in the sides of the pontoons to low to the water line. Then they were suppose to pump all the watered down concrete waste back to the beach to dispose of. But that cost too much money, so they pumped it into the pontoons. When this storm hit, high waves, and too much weight in the pontoons, down she went. The original bridge didn't have water tight doors between the cells. The new one does! I worked on the replacement bridge, and the 3rd Lake Bridge. I have over 4-years between the two bridges. For a lake that water can get rough! I've seen 6-feet tall waves there! Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by JASnot much to do except agitate CEP....
Reply:Oh wow, guess I better change my signature, I no longer have an LN25 1963 SA 200 Redface, rebuilt by me, bodywork by CEP Everlast 255EXT w/W300 coolerMiller 212 AutosetMiller Xtreme 375Bridgeport MillSouth Bend 9" Lathe
Reply:Originally Posted by JASOh wow, guess I better change my signature, I no longer have an LN25
Reply:The nice thing is, it'll get used and you can have one set up with one wire and another set up with different wire.... It's in a good home.1963 SA 200 Redface, rebuilt by me, bodywork by CEP Everlast 255EXT w/W300 coolerMiller 212 AutosetMiller Xtreme 375Bridgeport MillSouth Bend 9" LatheOriginally Posted by JASThe nice thing is, it'll get used and you can have one set up with one wire and another set up with different wire.... It's in a good home.
Reply:HA!!!! I see you changed your signature to reflect it 1963 SA 200 Redface, rebuilt by me, bodywork by CEP Everlast 255EXT w/W300 coolerMiller 212 AutosetMiller Xtreme 375Bridgeport MillSouth Bend 9" Lathe
Reply:Originally Posted by teh603I got to talking with a friend last night, who works at an iron works. Well, let's call it an iron works anyway. Apparently they're hiring welders, but they've got this thing where the new hires get put on the band saw or some other prep work instead of actually welding.Which seems really weird and possibly stupid, because the guy on the band saw isn't going to be getting any better at welding while he's cutting all that metal. If he doesn't have equipment at home to practice with, he might even fail a weld test when they finally do get around to giving him one. Then they go out and hire a "real welder," when he could've passed if they'd given it to him when they hired him.Does that make any sense? Is this a shop I should even consider working for?
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPAnd you know dam well you can borrow it, or anything else I have when ever you need it!
Reply:Originally Posted by teh603Which seems really weird and possibly stupid, because the guy on the band saw isn't going to be getting any better at welding while he's cutting all that metal. If he doesn't have equipment at home to practice with, he might even fail a weld test when they finally do get around to giving him one. Then they go out and hire a "real welder," when he could've passed if they'd given it to him when they hired him.Does that make any sense? Is this a shop I should even consider working for?
Reply:Originally Posted by JASHA!!!! I see you changed your signature to reflect it
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopI wish I lived in Washington.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPWhat's the deal here, you don't have any crews working today? Or are they on autopilot?
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopI wish I lived in Washington.
Reply:Originally Posted by JASNo crews today.
Reply:Originally Posted by JASwhere he is a warm weather bucket welder by trade.
Reply:Nope, just trying to live up to the name you stuck on my lunch box over 23 years ago.... Last edited by JAS; 02-06-2015 at 04:59 PM.1963 SA 200 Redface, rebuilt by me, bodywork by CEP Everlast 255EXT w/W300 coolerMiller 212 AutosetMiller Xtreme 375Bridgeport MillSouth Bend 9" Lathe
Reply:Originally Posted by JASNope, just trying to live up to the name you stuck on my lunch box over 23 years ago....
Reply:Still!1963 SA 200 Redface, rebuilt by me, bodywork by CEP Everlast 255EXT w/W300 coolerMiller 212 AutosetMiller Xtreme 375Bridgeport MillSouth Bend 9" Lathe
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopI wish I lived in Washington.
Reply:If he did not have a welder at home to practice with I would not hire him in the first place.People think whoever they work for makes money hand over fist. If it were that simple than why don't the people that think that just go do it on their own? It takes money to hire a new guy. Would I want to hire a welder that would piss and moan about running a saw? Phack our welders piss and moan about welding. I might be a dreamer but I have hope they start punting some out the door and get someone in that wants to work.
Reply:Originally Posted by teh603I got to talking with a friend last night, who works at an iron works. Well, let's call it an iron works anyway. Apparently they're hiring welders, but they've got this thing where the new hires get put on the band saw or some other prep work instead of actually welding.Which seems really weird and possibly stupid, because the guy on the band saw isn't going to be getting any better at welding while he's cutting all that metal. If he doesn't have equipment at home to practice with, he might even fail a weld test when they finally do get around to giving him one. Then they go out and hire a "real welder," when he could've passed if they'd given it to him when they hired him.Does that make any sense? Is this a shop I should even consider working for?
Reply:anyone who works in a iron shop should be a little versatile. unless you want that layoff when things get slow standing next to a saw or buffalo is preferable to line E. imhoi.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderanyone who works in a iron shop should be a little versatile. unless you want that layoff when things get slow standing next to a saw or buffalo is preferable to line E. imho
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverSounds like they don't know how to run a business AND don't value the specific skill each employee brings. I wouldn't even consider considering the job myself.
Reply:One thing they are not doing, is hiring a guy to tell them how to run their business.  Couple of things you have to work out, who has the money and who needs the money? Who owns/runs a company and who is looking for a job? "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Yeah but it doesn't really matter how you look at it...Hire general laborers for next to nothing and train them to someday be your welders (by making them run a bandsaw)? and end up with no real skill in the company..?Or hire a good welder and pay him a ton to run a bandsaw when you should be paying a lower skilled person less to do the same thing. Makes no sense either...Or think you're going to hire talent for next to nothing and make them do a job where they don't even use their skill? that's just called a demotion, anybody can get that at McDonaldz.The only angle it even makes sense from is if the whole job doesn't require skilled laborers, in which case why on earth would you want to work there anyway?!and if your answer is "gotta put food on the table" well then there's a hundred other places that aren't operation on a complete lack of common sense.It might be the only bad job, but that doesn't mean it's the only job.Last edited by MikeGyver; 02-06-2015 at 10:11 PM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:We do this all the time. Guy puts in for job and says he can weld. Guess what, he is second class at best. So where does he get to work? Anywhere have an opening. If he wants to work that is. Guys that test first class go straight to welding. When it's busy the second class guys get the chance to prove themselves. Most of all though it's all about attitude. Show up every day, work hard and do quality work and you get opportunity, stand there and carp about how "this ain't what I hired on to do" and see how long it takes to move up.Ranger 250 GXTSmith Gas Axe
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPMy brother-n-law got hired at Livermore Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, right out of Hunters Point Naval shipyard. They do a lot of Electron Beam welding, and laser beam welding. The first year he was there all they let him do is make the coffee.
Reply:One thing to consider is that all of this discussion has come about from hearing secondhand information, without all the facts.It sounds a little odd, but there may be more to it. It's really hard to say with such limited information to go on. Not also to mention, the OPs perception and and concerns regarding this place of employment are largely based on negative past experiences. I do it all the time, so I can relate. I can totally see a place putting a new hire on a menial job for a short period of time to feel him out and see if he is a good fit for the company. It's their sandbox. An introductory period is standard at many places I've worked. Haven't worked in a whole lot of shops, but I can see the logic if that's the reason behind the method.Without checking it out, it's all just speculation. Still, if it's looking like they play games with new hires as standard practice, I could think of other places to look for work.As Mr. Lead Man pointed out, attitude often trumps many other attributes.IMHO of courseExpert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948