TIG n00b Q's

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(background stuff and welder choice first - feel free to skip to pics) Hi everybody. I've been lurking here for a while, and do just enough hobby MIG work to stay consistently mediocre at it, but I've wanted to get a TIG welder for many years. I recently built a new house, and made sure to get a 3 car garage and a 240V 30A outlet there (which meant I had to stick with an inverter). Background on the TIG welder I choose for other n00bs that might be lurking (feel free to skip): I picked up a Thermal Arc 186 with a Victor cart for a pretty smoking deal as I've been watching prices for about 2 years now. I came so close to getting a Hobart EZ-Tig 165i or a Diversion 165, but kept thinking I'd want a little bit more OOMPH in the future doing aluminum. That's about all my budget could accommodate, so I was resigning myself to the fact that maybe I'd have to roll the dice in a big way and get something like an Everlast 200DX. Then cruising around I stumbled across a price for a TA 186 that was much much lower than it even debuted at with a Victor cart included. The store gets some mixed reviews, but seems to generally be legit so I placed my order and crossed my fingers. About 5 business days later, I got the TA 186 and cart in great shape, brand new in the packaging for just $1377 shipped. It actually would have only been 1 day of shipping, but they were back ordered on the cart. Here's a link for the welder if anybody else is interested: http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool...-W1006301.htmlI figured for roughly the same price as the Diversion 165 it'd be hard to go wrong here. The cart is also a beast compared to the cheap Harbor Freight cart I've got my Hobart Handler 125 on that likes to do its best impression of a rickshaw in need of repair when I move it.ONTO THE N00B WELDS!So this is the first time I've ever touched a TIG torch, and I don't have a pedal, so I expected really really bad things, but it didn't seem so horrible even though I had to prop up on a tile bucket since my garage is still in complete disarray due to tiling it in porcelain (amazing stuff, no worry about spills, and no fragile epoxy!) - so yes, this is a very temporary setup! 3/32" thoriated tungsten, #7 cup, 3/32" ER70S6 filler1/8" thick cold roll 1018, ~2" wide, brushed with SS brush quickly before startingFirst bead ever, I varied torch speed a lot and torch angle a little trying to find the sweet spot, this was also with the thumbwheel rotary amperage wheel - which is somewhat of a PITA. Confirmed that I need to ditch my HF auto darkening helmet (I'm thinking about a Jackson):Ran a few beads (started upper right, went down, then left), halfway through I switched from the thumbwheel control to the ON/OFF 2T control with 125 A current, and 1 sec downslope. I was varying my travel speed and filler amount here:Top: Tried 50% duty cycle, 1 sec period, 35 A background current, 125 A welding current pulse  - it didn't work out well. I felt like things moved too slowly to get into a rhythm. It also seemed really cold, so I think pulsing it I'd need more like 150-160 A.2nd from top: Tried a quick travel speed, 125 A constant, with an almost vertical torch to see how it'd work - cold as expected3rd from top: about a 10-15 deg torch angle, and what seemed like a decent travel speed from the previous tries - seemed to wet out nicely - any comments here?Bottom: Tried to see if I could compensate for getting towards the corner and speeding up my weld - really needed a foot pedal here, as it was just too much heat towards the edge even with speeding up my filler rod handI think I might have slightly dipped the tungsten when starting it, as sometimes the HF start did not start an arc when the torch was about 1/16-1/8" above the workpiece, and I had to basically scratch it slightly to get it going. Is this normal? I thought HF start could jump a pretty big gap?  Any obvious tungsten dips (looks like one where I get close to the edge, as I got surprised when I sped up and it was about a third as much as I needed to add on)? Tungsten pic:And yes, I was more or less trying to go straight, but the TIG torch and cable that comes with this thing is heavy and stiff like I heard, but this is pretty bad. I do suck when I don't have a joint to follow at going straight, so that probably is part of it.I think I'm going to get a flexible cable WP-17 for 95% of my usage soon, and a TA pedal of course (apparently SSC doesn't make a pedal for this welder, and plans not to due to the circuitry differing slightly from other pedals with the same pinout). My HF helmet made it pretty hard to tell how far out the puddle is wetting out - any tips for that? Or is it a "don't be stupid and get a good helmet" answer that I think I already know myself? Also, adding the filler to the puddle was very "sticky" as it seemed to solidify into the front edge of the puddle. Am I adding it too forcefully or something? Too much filler? Or is that normal? The sticky feeling did throw my rhythm off a bit.Sorry for all the questions - but there's only so much you can get from lurking. Overall for my first 30 mins with a TIG torch I felt ok about it. My LWS didn't have any aluminum filler in a reasonable size, but I did run a quick arc down some 6061 - definitely feels differently, but I'm anxious to get on that.Last edited by Def; 10-07-2013 at 09:13 AM.
Reply:I would say 125a is way too hot for your material and that fill looks like 3/32 to me which is WAY to large. Seems like your off in both directions. Lower your amperage and try a 1/16 filler and go from there.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:That's what I was thinking as well, unfortunately the LWS had pretty bare shelves and the only ER70S6 or S2 they had smaller than 1/8" was 3/32". Makes sense that it was sticking then.So given it was only 2" wide, you're thinking less than the usual 1 amp per 0.001"? Or is that an aluminum guideline? There was just a slight amount of melt through on the other side, so it seemed like a decent amount of heat there. I'll give it a go at around 100-110 A though. Does the grey color indicate a bit too much heat?
Reply:Like most noobs, I feel you're trying to do too much too soon. Learn to crawl before you try to walk. IMO, first learn to control the puddle. Push the puddle across the coupon, line after line. Concentrate on keeping the puddle uniform (difficult without a pedal). Strive to get even ripples, and uniform (autogenous) bead width. Focus on keeping those beads straight, with even, uniform spacing between each bead. Do this for dozens of coupons ... then try adding filler rod (like Mike said, 1/16").http://www.facebook.com/LockhartMetalArthttp://www.facebook.com/pages/Grumpy...44306259043484
Reply:Fair enough. I do plan to get more torch time as soon as I get some properly sized filler/electrodes etc. And a welding table... Thanks for the comments.
Reply:BTW - is it normal to not be able to start up an arc unless the electrode is almost touching the workpiece in HF TIG mode?
Reply:i think i bought my fno1's from you several years back in TX...my 185 has to be very close from time to time but its usually right after i dip the tungsten...ditch the thumb control and torch and go with a smaller 17(or 9) torch with a gas lens and pedal. It will make controlling the puddle lots easier and dont touch the pulse quite yetLast edited by dbs13; 10-07-2013 at 12:46 PM.
Reply:Oh yea - small world. The thumb control is more of a PITA than I thought it'd be. There doesn't seem to be much difference between the 9 and 17 as far as amp capacity at a given duty cycle is concerned, but the 9 is way smaller. Am I going to be burning the crap out of my hand with a WP-9 at 175 amps and 25% duty cycle on AC? The TA 186 can do 60% duty cycle at 115 A, which seems to fit the 17 well, but the 9 seems much smaller overall. I don't mind waiting a little here or there since I am just doing this as a hobby, so super high duty cycle doesn't bother me too much, but I don't want to have a torch really hold me back and have to go back to the behemoth WP-26.A water cooler and WP-20 sounds nice, but it's a little too much money right now.
Reply:As far as your helmet goes, I got the Jackson helmet that Lanse aka chuckie2009 got. I love it! It is amazing how well you can see the action with this thing! Definantly get a gas lens. Weld On!
Reply:You got a smokin' deal that is for sure. You can get an SSC foot control for it straight from SSC I believe for some $175.http://www.ssccontrols.com/homepage-...ngcontrols.htmWeld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by HenrymacAs far as your helmet goes, I got the Jackson helmet that Lanse aka chuckie2009 got. I love it! It is amazing how well you can see the action with this thing! Definantly get a gas lens. Weld On!
Reply:Only time we use gas lenses in the shop is doing critical no grind stainless work...just my opinion though!   What's up Mike ?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeWhy do you say definitely get a gas lens. Just curious?
Reply:Originally Posted by xtremetalworksOnly time we use gas lenses in the shop is doing critical no grind stainless work...just my opinion though!   What's up Mike ?
Reply:All good here too! I been around here and there...Bout time for you to be hitting the woods soon huh? Been kinda warm for bow hunting though. Hope your working that new Gas drive more then I been using mine..lol which is little to none
Reply:Originally Posted by xtremetalworksAll good here too! I been around here and there...Bout time for you to be hitting the woods soon huh? Been kinda warm for bow hunting though. Hope your working that new Gas drive more then I been using mine..lol which is little to none
Reply:Maybe I missed it.  What gas are you using?I hope not your mig gas.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by DefOh yea - small world. The thumb control is more of a PITA than I thought it'd be. There doesn't seem to be much difference between the 9 and 17 as far as amp capacity at a given duty cycle is concerned, but the 9 is way smaller. Am I going to be burning the crap out of my hand with a WP-9 at 175 amps and 25% duty cycle on AC? The TA 186 can do 60% duty cycle at 115 A, which seems to fit the 17 well, but the 9 seems much smaller overall. I don't mind waiting a little here or there since I am just doing this as a hobby, so super high duty cycle doesn't bother me too much, but I don't want to have a torch really hold me back and have to go back to the behemoth WP-26.A water cooler and WP-20 sounds nice, but it's a little too much money right now.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYou got a smokin' deal that is for sure. You can get an SSC foot control for it straight from SSC I believe for some $175.http://www.ssccontrols.com/homepage-...ngcontrols.htm
Reply:Uhhh, the TA pedal is made by SSC, at least mine was. I'm debating which torch to swap to, the original is like wresting with an octopus after the wp20. I wonder if a 9 and a gas lens would run cooler than the stock 17 with a regular collet body. The extra stickout gives the heat a chance to disapate rather than creep back into handle.  I've used a small gas lens, #6 cup, 14-16 CFH with 1-1/4" stickout, but the tight corner I was in probably helped with gas coverage. The 4T mode is my favorite with the on/off button (the thumbwheel sucks butt), seriously, get the foot pedal.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeWhy do you say definitely get a gas lens. Just curious?
Reply:I put a water cooled 20 torch on my 186, world of difference over that thing TA calls a torch.  I have the factory foot pedal, it is a ssc, you are right though there is a second switch inside the pedal that isn't in normal pedals.  That's weird that ssc said they didn't have any.
Reply:Oxford: More info/pics please, I'm debating building or buying the cooler. I could probably get away with the aircooled 9, but hey, we got 200A machines for a reason. If you look at the 186 foot pedal thread ( http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...+pedal+problem) you'll see that the second switch in the pedal is the source of some problems, but the parts replacement kit, direct from SSC and a few extra bits of tape inside made mine work fairly well, I may still add the preview kill-switch mod to eliminate the pop at the end of the weld.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:That is odd that Jim from SSC acted like they did not have a pedal that would work with the machine. He suggested I buy the TA branded pedal to be able to read the preset amps on the machine with the pedal plugged in. I'm also interested in what size torch to go with. The WP-9 looks to be extremely marginal on the duty cycle side for the average aluminum stuff I'd do with the machine, but the size looks fantastic compared to the club-sized WP-26 stock torch.Thermal Arc 186 AC/DCHobart Handler 125
Reply:Originally Posted by BrazinOxford: More info/pics please, I'm debating building or buying the cooler.Thanks for the pics. My cart is a recycled mini shopping cart, so I might as well build the Mad Max cooler for it. So tidy over there SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by DefThen cruising around I stumbled across a price for a TA 186 that was much much lower than it even debuted at with a Victor cart included. The store gets some mixed reviews, but seems to generally be legit so I placed my order and crossed my fingers. About 5 business days later, I got the TA 186 and cart in great shape, brand new in the packaging for just $1377 shipped. It actually would have only been 1 day of shipping, but they were back ordered on the cart. Here's a link for the welder if anybody else is interested: http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool...-W1006301.html