Atlas TH42 Lathe Cleanup and Restoration

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Hi.I am carrying a thread about a lathe over from the Machines, Tools and Cutting Methods section to this arena.  Hopefully this is OK with the admins of this site...In order to complete the "Gen-Set" project, I needed to obtain a PTO shaft to drive the pulley off the diesel engine.  After checking around, none were commonly available and what was available was out of my price range.  The cost for having it done by some local machinists was in-line with the cost of a used or low-end lathe so, since I have a little lathe experience, I purchased a used Atlas TH42. This will be a little detour from the Gen-Set project.  Truthfully though, I wanted a lathe for the past 3 decades.When all is said and done, this lathe might need a spot of weld on the ways as one of them has a very slight wear groove.  If it appears to be a problem, I'll seek advice here on how to build/fill it and resurface it.Anhow, this TH42 first spent it's life at Bethlehem Steel and then in a garage for the past 15 years.  It has surface rust that comes right off and it is grimey beyond all belief.  The gears were packed with the most awful, rancid grease that was packed with metal shavings.  Fortunately, the gears are in very good condition and everthing is very tight. The motor and frame assembly are fine.  It needs to be restored and you can see the tailstock and carriage knobs are not original so the first thing I make (as a warm-up to the PTO shaft) will be authentic knobs.Here's a photo of the unit as-is and another of the 5 main gears completely cleaned-up and greased.  It ran remarkably smooth afterward.  The main gears were completely disassembled and washed in a parts cleaner.  The design is remarkably simple and elegant.  I'm going to rebuild it from left to right.  (And no, I did not use the channel lock pliars on the nuts.  I had to use them to wiggle-off a stuck spacing washer)....PS:  If the admins here feel this is over-the-top for a welding forum, -no problem.  I understand. Attached Images
Reply:I have one. You might join a machinist group at Yahoo they have a lot of good info about the older smaller lathes. It's been a while since I have been on their site but they directed me to a company that reproduced the manuals and parts list for these machines. I use mine often I have had to collect tooling along the way Ebay usally has some. The main thing with these machine take your time small cuts and you can produce good parts.Miller 330 A/BP Bernard SS coolerMiller cst 250Miller Big Blue 251DCentury 210 Mig (first welder I bought)Hypertherm PowerMax 800Victor torch setRu Fong 31 MilAtlas lathe
Reply:Hey Ray,You did good. I do believe "down-the-road" a bit, you will be glad you decided to go with individual units. Yes, the gears look to be in superb condition. Did you happen to check runout on your headstock? That is, if you located your indicator yet.I see yours has the old toolholder like mine did when I bought it. I had a Bridgeport then & I made my own 4/position turret tool holder to take up to 1/2" tools. Here's some pics that may give you some ideas to make one....... that is, when you get your mill. That 'ol lathe will serve you well for many moons to come......Denny Attached ImagesComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey Ray,You did good. I do believe "down-the-road" a bit, you will be glad you decided to go with individual units. Yes, the gears look to be in superb condition. Did you happen to check runout on your headstock? That is, if you located your indicator yet.I see yours has the old toolholder like mine did when I bought it. I had a Bridgeport then & I made my own 4/position turret tool holder to take up to 1/2" tools. Here's some pics that may give you some ideas to make one....... that is, when you get your mill. That 'ol lathe will serve you well for many moons to come......Denny
Reply:Belts for this are as easy as the local Harbor Freight, the green linked belts.  The headstock is a Timken bearing style, which is the preferable style.As far as parts, Clausing has many Atlas/Craftsman parts, but they like them to collect dust on the shelf.  So be forewarned.The spindle taper is a Morse Taper #3, the tailstock is a MT2.  The lantern post should be able to accept 1/2" tooling, if not then it will accept 3/8" tool bits.Tailstock should unscrew & then a drift can punch out the dead center.  All the big online machinery sites have "inexpensive" live centers from $29.00-$45.00, more expensive ones can be had also.Enjoy & post up pictures of your progress of the rebuild.  Several members here have gone through it & will offer advice.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:I feel guilty that you wont take any money from me for that. I guess I'll still pick it up.
Reply:Nice - I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.  I have a Clausing Mark 3 (1944 vintage) that needs a refurb job - nothing major.  Lots of surface rust and missing parts when I got it.  I am gradually getting rid of the surface rust via electrolosis and light blasting for non critical areas.  I've collected the rest of the parts but need a couple of months worth of weekends to put everything back together.
Reply:Quick update...Cleaning-up the lathe is very slow going.  This thing is grimey beyond your wildest imagination!  I have a small parts cleaner but this thing needs a 55 gallon drum of safety-clean and a motorboat engine to agitate it. I really wish I had a sandblaster as that's the only way this thing will really clean-up well.Anyhow, I'm cleaning everything as I strip it down and am almost half done.  I'll strip it down 99% and only leave the headstock housing bolted to the ways so it won't have to be completely re-aligned.I'm surprised that many of the auto feed related gears inside the apron housing are made of pot-metal -and even more surprised that they show relatively little wear.  There's one stripped bolt that holds a crossfeed gear in position. It's a very low speed gear and it wobbles a little but still functions.  The bolt a special bolt with an unusually wide shoulder and I'll easily be able to make one once this thing is back together.I got the chuck out of the tailstock taper -it was in there pretty good.  The spindle shaft needs to come out of the housing.  I've analyzed it to death and think I know how to proceed but, I'll check with an Atlas forum before getting the press and gear pullers out.  If anyone here has knowledge of how to do it, please let me know.I'm guessing another 4-5 days of part-time work before this thing is running again.
Reply:Parts can be had on e-bay time to time.  Just do a search on Craftsman or Atlas lathes.  Many parts will interchange, the bolt might be inexpensive enough to purchase.There are also manuals available on e-bay, many are model specific.  Just be choosy on the one you purchase.Mine sat outside under a porch for 20 some years in AZ.  The grime was glued on pretty tight.  Purple Power degreaser, some elbow grease & scraping, it came off.  Still have some to clean, but I'm using it now, so further degreasing will have to wait.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Try electrolosis - the rust and grime cleaned up very well on my lathe.  I used this technique on the quick change gearbox, apron gear train, tailstock, cross slide and headstock.  A bunch of the grime went with the rust and I was only using a small battery charger to power the electrolosis.  I recently did some electrolysis on the inside of a cut open propane tank that was pretty rusty (I am using the tank as the main part of a pressure assist pot for sandblasting).  The power supply was a Miller Thunderbolt and the rust nearly boiled off the the items I was cleaning - super fast!
Reply:Originally Posted by karlgabelTry electrolosis - the rust and grime cleaned up very well on my lathe.  I used this technique on the quick change gearbox, apron gear train, tailstock, cross slide and headstock.  A bunch of the grime went with the rust and I was only using a small battery charger to power the electrolosis.  I recently did some electrolysis on the inside of a cut open propane tank that was pretty rusty (I am using the tank as the main part of a pressure assist pot for sandblasting).  The power supply was a Miller Thunderbolt and the rust nearly boiled off the the items I was cleaning - super fast!
Reply:I use Sodium carbonate (also known as washing soda or soda ash).  I found a great source for soda ash at the local pool supply store.  It's typically around a buck per pound.  You mix a solution of 5 gallons water to 1/3 to 1/2 cup of soda ash.  A good source for additional information is: http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp
Reply:I am 90% likely to buy an atlas lathe local to me.  I am debating if it is worth the $600 asking price.  It seems a littel cleaner than your experience so far, but has a few issues..  The "jack shaft" that has all the pulleys on it that sits behind the lathe over the motor has some serious throw out.. it might be a bent pulley, but it wobbles visibly.  The drill chuck is busted / re-assembled so I probably need a new chuck.  It comes with a 3 jaw with .012 runout according to the owner, and a 4 jaw, a dead center, the questionable chuck, and a steady rest.  It alos comes with the huge steel table someone built for it with a 3/8 or so top plate - a good heavy solid work table about 2x6 feet long which is worth a bit to me since I have no welding table.  The back corner leaves about a 4ft x 18" work area I could use for welding, provided obviously I came up with a reliable method to 100% protect the lathe.  It is all original. It has the multi piece belt like yours, except it is a newew belt with red section pieces like I have seen in harbor freight or what not.   My biggest question about the unit is the noise, but you seem to have the same so maybe it is typical for an old, lower end american lathe?  I did find without the quick change gearbox engaged it is MUCH quieter.. IE adjust the gears on the side so only the headstock is powered.I was able to see it operational last night.  The seller is a machinist by day, but had not used this lathe much, so he was a bit fuzzy on how to do some things, but figured them out as we went along.  He was able to throw a 8" x 1.5" piece of an axle or driveshaft of some sort into the lathe and cut it, with the autofeed.  The autofeed does not stay engaged, but it does work if you just hold the lever down for the duration of the cut.  He is asking $600, what do you guys who actually already own these think?  It is a 10x36 model btw - QC54Thanks!
Reply:Hey jd,Personally, I wouldn't invest $600 in a lathe that indicates some serious operational flaws. There is operation "noise" when a lathe is running, although substantial wear, alignment issues, & vibration due to excessive wear are simply signs of an impending breakdown. My 'ol SB lathe has running "noise", as all lathes do, although when running is smooth & the sound/feel of solid operation.....no "clacking", "rattles", or the sound of a ball-bearing in a tin can.The degree of breakdown can really cost $$$ & your considerations would be the cost to replace major components. Your indication of the half-nut not staying engaged also indicates either something loose, broken, or has substantial wear. My primary concern would be the jack-shaft issue. I would probably offer 1/2($300) of his asking price & not hesitate to point out the the seller the added cost to you to get it into first-class condition & the cost of new items such a chuck/accessories, even there is a decent table that could be used for welding. Also, where is the .012 runout.... chuck? or headstock? The final decision has to be yours. With every transaction, a sale/purchase is made with the seller satisfied with a price, & the purchaser feeling he got a value for his $$$. Simple, isn't it? Let us know how you fare.....DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:yorkiepap - thanks for your input.After checking ebay I found new split nuts for ~50 and used excellent in the pics for $30.The jackshaft seems like it could be an excellent first project with the lathe.. hmm healing itself like Christine -- spooky..  I was thinking it is only the shaft or the big pulley that would be out of true.. The shaft would be easy to replace, they pulley not as much... though there are some cheap pulleys available at northerntools locally. It does seem like a location where a new shaft and some new sealed bearings would be a better solution that what is in place now.. (some sort of grease cap you thread down to force grease into the bearings). I have offered him 500 and I guess we will just see if he takes it !If he does, I will post a link here to a new thread to avoid a total thread jack!
Reply:When all is said and done, this lathe might need a spot of weld on the ways as one of them has a very slight wear groove. If it appears to be a problem, I'll seek advice here on how to build/fill it and resurface it.
Reply:Originally Posted by jdchmielI am 90% likely to buy an atlas lathe local to me.  I am debating if it is worth the $600 asking price.  It seems a littel cleaner than your experience so far, but has a few issues..  The "jack shaft" that has all the pulleys on it that sits behind the lathe over the motor has some serious throw out.. it might be a bent pulley, but it wobbles visibly.  The drill chuck is busted / re-assembled so I probably need a new chuck.  It comes with a 3 jaw with .012 runout according to the owner, and a 4 jaw, a dead center, the questionable chuck, and a steady rest.  It alos comes with the huge steel table someone built for it with a 3/8 or so top plate - a good heavy solid work table about 2x6 feet long which is worth a bit to me since I have no welding table.  The back corner leaves about a 4ft x 18" work area I could use for welding, provided obviously I came up with a reliable method to 100% protect the lathe.  It is all original. It has the multi piece belt like yours, except it is a newew belt with red section pieces like I have seen in harbor freight or what not.   My biggest question about the unit is the noise, but you seem to have the same so maybe it is typical for an old, lower end american lathe?  I did find without the quick change gearbox engaged it is MUCH quieter.. IE adjust the gears on the side so only the headstock is powered.I was able to see it operational last night.  The seller is a machinist by day, but had not used this lathe much, so he was a bit fuzzy on how to do some things, but figured them out as we went along.  He was able to throw a 8" x 1.5" piece of an axle or driveshaft of some sort into the lathe and cut it, with the autofeed.  The autofeed does not stay engaged, but it does work if you just hold the lever down for the duration of the cut.  He is asking $600, what do you guys who actually already own these think?  It is a 10x36 model btw - QC54Thanks!
Reply:Oh, here's a fairly recent picture of the rebuild showing the old 2 step idler pulley which are now replaced with a single modern pulley.  The loss of a few speeds is no great loss and I could always get another pulley to match the other size.I've made a few useful things on this already.  Here's a link to one of them where I did a weld build-up and then resurfaced.  Built-up 7018 rod makes for some really good lathe metal !http://www.machinistweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1322The bench is welded 1x2" tube, 11ga with 1" diameter black pipe for legs and cross bars.  The top section cross bars and angle plates were welded in afterward to dampen vibration and provide a shelf.  It's rock solid and putting 100lbs of tools on the lower shelves made it perfect for free-standing use.  Some people have lighter tables and bolt them to the floor and/or walls to dampen the last bit of vibration but I want mine to be movable.I'm going to build a matching table soon for general purpose use because I'm tired of squatting on the ground like a caveman. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by jdchmielI am 90% likely to buy an atlas lathe local to me.  I am debating if it is worth the $600 asking price. My biggest question about the unit is the noise, but you seem to have the same so maybe it is typical for an old, lower end american lathe?  I did find without the quick change gearbox engaged it is MUCH quieter.. IE adjust the gears on the side so only the headstock is powered.  He is asking $600, what do you guys who actually already own these think?  It is a 10x36 model btw - QC54Thanks!
Reply:Well I did pick it up on friday, and then a syncrowave 250 on saturday.. traded an 86 mr2 for the welder, and 550 for the lathe + ~200lb of table.Was working on home rennovation stuff all weekend, so no time to play with either toy, although the 100 amp circuit for the welder is 50% complete ( whole new garage sub panel, have to redo a bit as sub panels cannot have ground and neutral bonded together... who knew??)So tonight I will get the requisite new toy photos taken and probably uploaded tomorrow morning.Today I need to figure out how I am supposed to level the table... Are there alternatives to high precision levels for this sort of thing?