What am I doing wrong? Don't have much hair left to pull out

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First thing is I can't weld worth a crap if I don't use a gas lens with about 1/4" stick out. It always seems to have that grey burnt look to the weld and way too much amperage to get a good puddle with regular cup setup. This all being straight argon {8-12CFH} with a 3/32" ceriated tungsten and ER70-S2  .045" filler. There is also a grainy...splintered look to the puddles on some welds with a shine and smooth on other weld areas. What causes this? The weld cooling too fast? Welding too fast? Everything cleaned...no brake cleaners. I have a diamond tungsten sharpener....home made but it works a lot better than $300 for one. First pic is .090" tube and plate...second is 1/4" X .035" tubes. 4130 is what I want to become good with....thin fiddly parts as my friend says. I am patient and will learn to weld this well with some helpful advice. Seems I get some colors and not burning up the metal with a gas lens...HAZ is in tight. If I put a regular cup and collet back on....my welds to from OK to junk instantly. Tried all kinds of filler and tungsten combos...even different welding machines and gasses....always the same weld issue. So I know it is me that is in the wrong somewhere. Maybe try a 1/16" tungsten and No.2 gas lens.....What gives? Temptations, unlike opportunities, will always give you second chances
Reply:Looks like you need to clean better. Prob also using low ampsAirco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Weld looks cold, filler rod dipping is inconsistent. If your going for that dime look,  dip about every second then adjust from there. The metal doesn't seem very clean get yourself some flap discLast edited by That Guy There; 01-20-2014 at 01:51 PM.
Reply:Why are you trying to take the gas lens off?
Reply:Well I suppose the standard cup and collet was what I needed to be able to weld with....my welder friend turned me on to the lens setup. He said it would help me with K clusters. I like the lens because it made all my welds have colors instead of greyed out welds that he didn't like to see. Said the HAZ was way too far from the weld and suggested the .045" filler { to help cool the weld pool}  instead of the .035" I was trying to use. He told me not to worry with penetration problems like a wire feed machine and to keep my welds tight as possible. Maybe that was to lead me away from what I was doing. I have been seriously trying to get this from 1 month of tinkering trying to figure this out from watching / listening to others. I may have 8 hrs. seat time from buying my setup. I like my machine and the lens setups. It was the first suggested item to get to help me....and it did. Guess I need to follow anything you guys have to offer. Looking for help is the place for me to start before I get into a bad habit at this point. I don't really want to unlearn bad practices. After all you guys are pros.....I'd just like to walk in the learning trail you left as much as I can.Temptations, unlike opportunities, will always give you second chances
Reply:Clean to bright shiny steel. Give it a wipe with acetone. Give your filler a wipe with acetone. I like a gas lens and #7 cup running at 12-15 CFH. You should be able to light up, get a puddle going, back off until the arc goes out, hold your post flow over the weld and have the steel stay bright and shiny. If it doesn't stay bright and shiny, something else is going on that is contaminating your shielding. You picked some challenging stuff to start on. Lots and lots of practice is what it will take.
Reply:Forgive me if my eyes deceive me, but you did not grind one atom of millscale off the metal!!!!    Either that or you need a better cell phone camera.  What you need is a right-angle air grinder with a 2" roloc flap disc like so.Makes grinding millscale off tubes almost pleasantly easy.   1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:I would be using a smaller tungsten, at least a 1/16" or .040" for that 1/4" tube.  Your filler wire may also be a tad on the large size, I think you can get away with smaller.
Reply:You keep mentioning the size of your HAZ.  How are you identifying this?  Don't confuse seeing the colors on the surface of the metal for the heat affected zone.  Furthermore, I'm not sure if you've had 8 hours of welding time total or 1 month (I was confused by your description).  That isn't even a drop in the bucket, as far as learning how to TIG weld, so be patient.  There isn't much you can do other than weld joints to get better.  After a couple thousand hours, you start getting some idea what you are doing.  After 5000 hours, you start realizing you really don't know as much as you thought you did, but you are getting better.  After 10,000 hours, you start getting pretty good at it.Miller Dynasty 200 DXMiller CP-300 with 30A feederHypertherm Powermax 900Oxy-fuel w/Harris torchesScotchman Glide-in bandsawMonarch 10EE latheEmi-Mec Autoturn latheDeckel FP2NC milling machinePro-Tools 105 Bender
Reply:.045 wire is bigger than I would normally use for a pipe joint unless the fit-up is really bad.  My gut feeling is wire that large will cool the pool and make a cold weld unless you really pour on the amps.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:Lol.... before you try TIG'n pipe why don't you try to lay beads on a flat plate?By the way you don't need a special tungsten sharpener, I use a bench grinder.if you're running carbon 3/32 TIG wire, set your machine on 90 amps, use a number 6-7 cup and learn to walk it. Keep your tungsten sharp, and you do not need a 1/4" of tungsten from the cup. Rule is to never have a greater tungsten length than the diameter of the cup.
Reply:Originally Posted by pbungumYou keep mentioning the size of your HAZ.  How are you identifying this?  Don't confuse seeing the colors on the surface of the metal for the heat affected zone.  Furthermore, I'm not sure if you've had 8 hours of welding time total or 1 month (I was confused by your description).  That isn't even a drop in the bucket, as far as learning how to TIG weld, so be patient.  There isn't much you can do other than weld joints to get better.  After a couple thousand hours, you start getting some idea what you are doing.  After 5000 hours, you start realizing you really don't know as much as you thought you did, but you are getting better.  After 10,000 hours, you start getting pretty good at it.
Reply:Originally Posted by GhostLol.... before you try TIG'n pipe why don't you try to lay beads on a flat plate?By the way you don't need a special tungsten sharpener, I use a bench grinder.if you're running carbon 3/32 TIG wire, set your machine on 90 amps, use a number 6-7 cup and learn to walk it. Keep your tungsten sharp, and you do not need a 1/4" of tungsten from the cup. Rule is to never have a greater tungsten length than the diameter of the cup.
Reply:Originally Posted by NoShopSkillsI know exactly why he's "TIG'n pipe" (which is really tube).  Flat plate beads have a limited use in the learning curve for what he's trying to accomplish.  Perhaps he should try a few, I'll give you that, but 4130 tube steel is a little bit of a different animal than flat work.  He really needs to learn how to do just that tube process.  Keyholes are unacceptable in "Tubefitter's" application.  He wants 100% strong welds that are also pleasing to the eye.  He's spent his whole life drooling over airplanes, but is confused by aesthetic Oxy-Acetylene welds, which are often as perfect as squegeed caulking on airframes of the 1930s, 40s and 50s.  Yet his TIG welds don't look like the best of show planes that fly to Oshkosh every summer.
Reply:yep....
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Reply:Thanks NoShopSkills and all you guys!!!! Can't figure out the fuselage...not J-3 or Aeronca....looks like T'cart wings maybe...looks good though.  I did do some light media blasting ....not so much on practice pieces. I worked some glass beaded parts and they seemed to be a bit better. I will quickly get on the acetone cleaning wagon. Have not been cleaning as well as I should be at all. Bad influence from watching the wrong people over the years.  So it's my fault is not really cleaning everything before I even think about lighting up on something. Now I am getting somewhere. I have been out sick and didn't do much other than coffee and toilet runs over the weekend. The airframe is completed and covered. My fuselage was already welded when I picked it up. But I do have one important tube that has welds on it for no reason....may need to replace that unit before completion. But I would like to get my engine mount done first.....sometime. I'll get with the Norton guy in the morning and get some flapper wheels for my grinders and a gallon of acetone....got plenty of MEK. OK I have some things try.....gotta do different things to expect a different results . Here's a shed pic of all the mess a while back.........Thanks guys....and....Yep.Temptations, unlike opportunities, will always give you second chances
Reply:If you plan on doing a lot of tube welding, invest in a good belt grinder such as a Burr King (my favorite) or a Wilton, and use fine sanding and scotch-brite belts to clean the tubing.  That will beat the pants off of a hand held grinder anyday, unless the tubing is heavily bent before hand.Miller Dynasty 200 DXMiller CP-300 with 30A feederHypertherm Powermax 900Oxy-fuel w/Harris torchesScotchman Glide-in bandsawMonarch 10EE latheEmi-Mec Autoturn latheDeckel FP2NC milling machinePro-Tools 105 Bender
Reply:Originally Posted by Ghost"Flat plate beads have a limited use in the learning curve for what he's trying to accomplish.  Perhaps he should try a few, I'll give you that, but 4130 tube steel is a little bit of a different animal than flat work."Pipe/tube tomato tahmatoYou will find not find me disagreeing with you at all about tube welding vs plate welding.It is way more challenging but before OP can run he must first learn how to walk...the cup LOL
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugHe needs to learn freehand first. Wtc on thin tube like he wants to weld isnt ideal. Even on heavy steel i suggest to learn freehand first.
Reply:What is your cup size?Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I read most of the reply's and what I see right away is it looks like your pulsing the pedal and trying to make it look cosmetic.....Each dab looks like their applied one at a time?  I might be wrong but dont see any carry over from one puddle to the next.....If thats what your doing try establishing  a puddle and then run it with that heat and just dab dab dab......As mentioned cleaning the part will help.....No Brake clean!   Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:I am using a #6 cup gas lens with a 1/16" Ceriated tungsten on a Weldcraft WP17 torch with about 1/4 stick out, machine set to 70 amps or so. I don't think I am pulsing the pedal....I just can't TIG good yet. I have been doing too many of the wrong things up to now to get any decent outcome. The one friend who really knows...is wanting me to learn things the hard way I think even though I have followed his prompting to the letter. Guess he is not going to just hand me all the cookies at one time...he does watch my progress and when I do make a decent weld he always asks what I've changed. We only see each other once a month though.  I was handed a box of roloc discs this evening from the Norton guy...he said these were great for freshening up fairly clean surfaces and leaving a pretty much polished finish without digging off a lot of metal. This is how my fit ups are...the structure will almost stay together by itself like it wants to be together. This was drilled into me right off the bat. Then again I seen someone getting ready to weld up a 3/16 gap today and wondered why even bother tigging up the pieces.  I spent nearly 14 hours cutting and fitting all the tubes for my mount. I wanted at least that part to be fairly decent.... at least to me. I know these tubes will have to be welded in a sequence....just showing the fit.Temptations, unlike opportunities, will always give you second chances
Reply:thank you Mr ShopSkills very useful information, instead of the usual basing from one member to another  thanks Clifton
Reply:Hey Tubefitter....Just thought I'd show you one of my early welds.  Almost 15 years ago!  Long before I picked up the Dynasty. Scratch start, no foot peddle just pre set amperage and torch manipulation...But I have to admit I am doing a heck of a lot better with the new welder.  Here's a part for a customer that I built today.Originally Posted by Tubefitter First pic is .090" tube and plate...second is 1/4" X .035" tubes. Attachment 593021Attachment 593031
Reply:Looks pretty good to me too. Only thing I would point out is on the larger tube, I would use larger filler. And remember to keep the rod in the gas stream while hot.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:You don't need acetone, you need to sand all that crud off till you get to shiny metal. You can't just wipe that dirty metal down with acetone and expect it to weld right.I've been TIG welding pipe for a living for over thirty years, the only time I've ever seen acetone used was in the nuke plant welding school in 1980.
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugHe needs to learn freehand first. Wtc on thin tube like he wants to weld isnt ideal. Even on heavy steel i suggest to learn freehand first.