Orbital welder?

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Is there any chance that someone in here is an orbital welder?Seems like im just wasting my time in this forum....thanksAlon
Reply:I do my share of orbital welding.I run mostly Polysuode equipment.Also run Magnatek and AMI machines. What makes you think your wasting your time here? Good forum here.
Reply:Too good for us average people with regular ole manual welders.
Reply:I worked around them for years but it never interested me so I didn't get a cert on it. About as easy as it gets as far as welding goes. Lots of prep time for a few minutes of welding.Two turn tables and a microphone.
Reply:I got to see a orbital welder one time but I would like to learn more about them .
Reply:I basically have been teaching myself for a couple months now with a 207i AMI welding machine.In Israel there is only 2 company's that deal with orbital welding,no courses available.Lately my company purchased a 9-3500 welding head for a 2" pipe welding project (stainless steel)So far I have 2 issues:1.How to give purge? (when welding small pieces it will burn the plastic connectors)2.Preparing the pipe-Is there a way to cut the pipe cleanly ready for soldering? or is there a portable lathe available?  Thanks
Reply:A tube/pipe saw (like Wachs) and a facing tool (hello... Swagelok) work really well for prep, and are both small enough to be portable.  You want the tightest fit possible for autogenous welding, whether orbital or manual.What do you mean plastic connectors?  Do you mean a vinyl purge line and disconnect?  If your purge line connects to a fitting (ferrule, vcr, vco, whatever) you can make an extension, to keep it away from the weld. For example, if you're connecting the purge to a ferrule, use a ferrule cap to do so, with as long of an extension as you like.  You kind of want to do that anyway to incorporate some kind of diffuser into the fitting, to help achieve a "plug flow".  How do you know when the purge is ready?  Tribal knowledge, or an oxygen meter.  I've seen systems of high purity tubing purged for many hours before the outlet read <5 ppm O2.
Reply:Hey wijo,Thanks allot for the advice.My English is good but have to still learn all the technical words for the kinds of fittings.I use quick connector or a teflon ferrule (reusable) to connect directly to the pipe.Till now I used it on pipes up to 3/4 I connect a ltr to inch flow meter at the end of the pipe...very problematic and  inaccurate causing me problems.Can you explain what you mean by a plug flow?(Do you mean a place for the purge to escape) can you give me a link to understand what your suggesting?
Reply:Sounds to me like the problem is with setup (fit/purge) than it is with "orbital welding".Manual tig welding of small SS components seems to present the same challenges.  If one can't "figure out" how to set up a purge system that works without melting his fittings, then the actual "orbital welding" is the least of his problems.I've fabricated multiple "end caps" of SS with kevlar gasket material that simply clamp onto the ends of my SS pipe.Take a short length of SS pipe that will fit over (slightly oversize of the pipe being welded).  Weld a circular plug on the end.  Drill and tap the oversize pipe for mounting bolts on either side of the fitting.  Drill and tap the end to receive a hose nipple.  If heat is still a problem, attach a short length of copper tube to the fitting before you attach the hose.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I agree with sundown, the problem lies more with fit up and purge than it does with orbital welding.  With any kind of welding, fit up and preparation (cleanliness, purge, etc) are very important, and most challenging.  It sounds like you have two thirds of the process wrong.  You just have to think of a clever way to keep your purge fittings away from the weld, the possibilities are endless, just think about it.  What are you trying to weld, exactly.  Tubing diameter, inside and out, fittings, stainless steel grade, blah blah blah, etc.  You aren't welding pipe, right?The flow rate at the outlet will tell you nothing about the atmosphere inside the tubing.  You need a better way to determine when you are ready to weld.  Once again, think about it.  Research, experiment or whatever.Plug flow is a commonly used term in fluid mechanics, just research it.  I'm trying to promote "using your brain."
Reply:I thought there was a universal purging system available to avoid making a fitting for every pipe, and having to carry around boxes of fittings.The biggest purging issue I have is keeping the purge stable.Once I start a weld the purge rises slowly effecting the weld making it a long process to program the welder to adapt to the purge.Any ideas? like a pressure regulator?
Reply:There are commercially available "purge kits" but I've found them to be quite expensive for what you get.  Invariably, you'll still be lacking the exact fit you're looking for.Setting up a proper purge is not rocket science.  A basic understanding of the properties of the purge gas and flow rates is the most important factor.I've fabricated end caps for everything from 8" tube (SS marine mufflers) to 1/2" SS rails and never had a problem getting a proper purge.  And this was was with readily available shop "scrap" rather than some overpriced commercial purge device.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:When I welded SS pipe in the oilfield we used aluminumized tape to hold shop built inlet caps and end caps like SundownIII described. As long as the inlet cap or or end cap was within an inch or there abouts, the tape would hold it in place.  Lots of times we just used the tape and punched a few small exhaust holes on one end and taped the purge gas tube through the other end. No cap or plug needed.Two turn tables and a microphone.
Reply:Thanks allI got enough ideas,Im just a perfectionist when it comes to using the right tools. I hate improvising when there is a tool available example: you will never find me using an adjustable spanner to open or close a nut...Ill go and get the one I need even if it takes making a big fussCheers
Reply:Originally Posted by PangeaWhen I welded SS pipe in the oilfield we used aluminumized tape to hold shop built inlet caps and end caps like SundownIII described. As long as the inlet cap or or end cap was within an inch or there abouts, the tape would hold it in place.  Lots of times we just used the tape and punched a few small exhaust holes on one end and taped the purge gas tube through the other end. No cap or plug needed.
Reply:I have been in the Orbital Biz for 25 years using the Dimetrics Brand of both orbital Pipe and Tube welders.Welded MSIV Valves in Nuclear Power Plants to 6.250 Wall 5000 psi super heated steam lines down to .125 dia x .010 wall 316 L SS Tridium lines.and everything inbetween AeroSpace,BioTech, Semi-Conductor.First YOU must use a Tube Saw to properly cut the tube ends square.Most Tube Saws today cut the tube with in .005 squareness. OR cut tube with a tubing cutter then follow up with a Tube Facing Operation. WACHS Co. offer both types of equipment.However haveing both types is best. The tube saw for general process piping and the Tube Facing Tool for Tie/Ins, Reclaim Fittings.The tube saw is a Orbitalam RA4 (used to be George Fischer) The Facing tool is the WACHS TFS 2.5SECOND. Pre Tack your assemblies prior to Orbital Welding. Tacks MUST be small  ,NO Oxidation on ID or OD so you must purge. TACKS MUST BE CONSUMED BY THE ORBITAL.Belive me a Pre Tacked assembly is much easier to Purge and Weld than piecing Fittings and tube together and consistantly breaking your purge set up down.Use fitt up clamps to help align the joints.Use TEFLON Tubing for your purge gas lines. The green rubber hoses trap O2 and H2O giving you crappy ID purge.Material should meet Tube/ Fittings ASTM A270 standardsPurge by using the Plastic Caps that came with the Tube. Use a Thru Bulkhead fitting with 1/4 x 1/4 Compression fittings for ID purge. CAPS Melting ? Somtimes nothin you can do except fabricate purge adapters as said above. Purging a Ferrule or Flange ? Fab up a dummy Flange with a welded 1/4 " tube to mate to Flanges.Using the Alum Tape works but somtimes gets Messy. ALSO if your doing HIGH PURITY SEMI GAS assemblies the Tape glue is corrupting the purity spec with Hydrocarbons. Big No / NoJeeeezzz I could go on & on. But thats the quicky LessonHope this helps.....DBLast edited by Don B; 01-18-2012 at 12:29 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Don BI have been in the Orbital Biz for 25 years using the Dimetrics Brand of both orbital Pipe and Tube welders.Welded MSIV Valves in Nuclear Power Plants to 6.250 Wall 5000 psi super heated steam lines down to .125 dia x .010 wall 316 L SS Tridium lines.and everything inbetween AeroSpace,BioTech, Semi-Conductor.First YOU must use a Tube Saw to properly cut the tube ends square.Most Tube Saws today cut the tube with in .005 squareness. OR cut tube with a tubing cutter then follow up with a Tube Facing Operation. WACHS Co. offer both types of equipment.However haveing both types is best. The tube saw for general process piping and the Tube Facing Tool for Tie/Ins, Reclaim Fittings.The tube saw is a Orbitalam RA4 (used to be George Fischer) The Facing tool is the WACHS TFS 2.5SECOND. Pre Tack your assemblies prior to Orbital Welding. Tacks MUST be small  ,NO Oxidation on ID or OD so you must purge. TACKS MUST BE CONSUMED BY THE ORBITAL.Belive me a Pre Tacked assembly is much easier to Purge and Weld than piecing Fittings and tube together and consistantly breaking your purge set up down.Use fitt up clamps to help align the joints.Use TEFLON Tubing for your purge gas lines. The green rubber hoses trap O2 and H2O giving you crappy ID purge.Material should meet Tube/ Fittings ASTM A270 standardsPurge by using the Plastic Caps that came with the Tube. Use a Thru Bulkhead fitting with 1/4 x 1/4 Compression fittings for ID purge. CAPS Melting ? Somtimes nothin you can do except fabricate purge adapters as said above. Purging a Ferrule or Flange ? Fab up a dummy Flange with a welded 1/4 " tube to mate to Flanges.Using the Alum Tape works but somtimes gets Messy. ALSO if your doing HIGH PURITY SEMI GAS assemblies the Tape glue is corrupting the purity spec with Hydrocarbons. Big No / NoJeeeezzz I could go on & on. But thats the quicky LessonHope this helps.....DB
Reply:Tacking the joints MAKE sure the tacks are NO larger than 25% of the wall thickness so they can be re-consumed by the weld puddle. It takes some skill to tack but after a few you will get it. A foot pedal on your TIG outfit makes a world of difference on achieving and controlling tack size.Again AFTER TACKING LEAVE THE GAS CUP OVER THE TACK TO PREVENT OXIDATION. Tack should look shinney and bright. If you do OXIDIZE the tack it must be ScotchBrite clean.Write a Book....lolI already have ..sorta....Wrote many articles in AWS Mags, Sit on American Welding Society board.Wrote training manuals for the Bio Process and High Purity Industry
Reply:Originally Posted by Don BTacking the joints MAKE sure the tacks are NO larger than 25% of the wall thickness so they can be re-consumed by the weld puddle. It takes some skill to tack but after a few you will get it. A foot pedal on your TIG outfit makes a world of difference on achieving and controlling tack size.Again AFTER TACKING LEAVE THE GAS CUP OVER THE TACK TO PREVENT OXIDATION. Tack should look shinney and bright. If you do OXIDIZE the tack it must be ScotchBrite clean.Write a Book....lolI already have ..sorta....Wrote many articles in AWS Mags, Sit on American Welding Society board.Wrote training manuals for the Bio Process and High Purity Industry
Reply:My most recent cert was in orbital welding.  Various thicknesses and compositions.  My latest is in Hastelloy.     It's all about the fit up and we use a tube end facer and for purge a manometer.   Think of the gauge that measures room pressure in a controlled environment.  We do a pre set up with the purge and then transfer it to the piece being welded.  We keep the pressure variance within a certain percent to be considered a close fit.  The rest is pretty simple.  Keep asking questions and keep questioning the answers.  You'll figure it out.  Good Luck.  Also our purge set-ups are all made with items that were sitting around the shop and they all work perfectly.
Reply:I am new to this forum & found people sharing lots of useful information. I am in need of an orbital welder & googling all over to find a good unit with  good weld heads which is reliable, has comparitively good features. With so many available, I am confused & unable to nail down to one... I am not well versed with all the features of orbital welding, but with the some welding background I am trying to understand to a good extent. Can someone with experience on different brands help me identify the right one.. Narrowing further, most of our welding dia would be between .5" to 6-7". Bad experiences with some brand/model are also welcome  that gives me better understanding of the product & can look if I can compromise on those features.....Thanks
Reply:I run orbital welders everyday and of our equipment Polysoude is by FAR the best. No comparison period. Pricey but worth it.
Reply:Thanks for the quick response.. When you say you recommend Polysoude, any model in particular so that I can look into it? Also if you can explain briefly what features in it impresses you, it is much appreciated.. like useablity or easy changeover.. or may be cooling.. etc.
Reply:@ San - had the opportunity to witness Orbitalum's (www.ehwachs.com) orbital welder in action, and speak with their tech reps, at FABTECH '13.  Impressive.  Sample below is a fused section of 2"OD x 2"ea length x ~ 16 gauge wall stainless steel.  Weld line is laser straight with a bead width of ~ 1/8".  Not certain if the material is 316L (17Cr, 10NI, 2Mo) or 304 (18Cr, 9Ni).  The orbital equipment used on the sample consisted of the OW65 enclosed orbital weld head, Orbimat 165CA orbital welding power supply, and the Orbitalum BUP control box.   Also saw Orbitalum's RPG 2.5 tube squaring machine, powered by a Metabo corded drill, prepare the sample ends.  Precise. What application(s) requires you source an orbital welding system? Attached ImagesLast edited by ManoKai; 01-22-2014 at 04:56 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:@Manokai -  Thanks for the nice pics you have shared.. Our application is more with the semiconductor industry. We are hoping to get some orders from oil & gas industry also.. Wondering if other brands also can give the results like you have shared. Have you tried other brands too?@ San - No prob.  To be crystal clear, scored this sample at the trade show.  Only in the passenger seat during the welding.  The Orbitalum tech performed the fit-up and welding.  Although, have an affinity for the orbital process, have not yet had an opportunity to run the systems.  Several of the dudes above, however, have.  Perhaps they can provide you images of their work and additional insight.Semiconductors.  Awesome."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi