Looking at buying a TIG welder...

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Yes, I know, a subject that has been beat to death, but I have a different angle on it, I'm in Japan, so the brands that are available here are not the same, for the most part, and I would very much like to ask for some advice one which machine to buy. I'm not a professional weldor, I'm working on getting JIS certification that that is down the road. I mostly weld things for myself, and for projects for customers, but nothing that is life critical like a trailer or such, usually things like shelf brackets for a storage rack. I have a customer that has just rolled into town and they needed some MIG welding done, they have a guy on their crew that is certified so I rented them my MIG welder and all the gear to do the job, paid very well for one day use of my machine, and saved their bacon. Now they are asking me to weld aluminum, if I have a TIG welder, I don't, but it is something that I've been wanting to add to my arsenal of tools and skills.The payment they will make for renting my MIG welder will have already offset the price of buying a decent TIG welder by quite a bit.I'm looking at this TIG welder to buy....Might Digital TIG WelderThat link is to a Google translation of the page into English, so the English is going to be a bit weird, but I hope you can get the basic idea.The unit would cost about $2000. I have a tank of Argon gas, as I tried to use my MIG to weld aluminum before, was not that great, but I still have that tank of gas to use.What do you think? Cheers!Dragon D-150 Arc WelderHobart Handler 175 Set up with 100% CO²WT-60 Plasma Arc Panasonic TIG Star YC-300TWX-2 Panasonic YX-0092UW Water Cooler for the TIG
Reply:I don't see it listed as an AC tig, but the translator may be off.  Also, I se a finger switch and not a pedal.  Arguably, you need a few things to comfortably weld aluminum.  AC wave, HF start, gas solenoid in machine and a foot pedal.  You'll probably want a water cooled torch if you're doing any routine work.  You need 1 amp per thousandths thickness of the aluminum you will weld.  There are exceptions to the above.  You could use Helium on DC for thick aluminum, no pedal, a torch with a valve, a finger control, etc...   I'm just giving you the down and dirty basics to make it work in the real world.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255I don't see it listed as an AC tig, but the translator may be off.  Also, I se a finger switch and not a pedal.  Arguably, you need a few things to comfortably weld aluminum.  AC wave, HF start, gas solenoid in machine and a foot pedal.  You'll probably want a water cooled torch if you're doing any routine work.  You need 1 amp per thousandths thickness of the aluminum you will weld.  There are exceptions to the above.  You could use Helium on DC for thick aluminum, no pedal, a torch with a valve, a finger control, etc...   I'm just giving you the down and dirty basics to make it work in the real world.
Reply:Hey Stu. Don't screw around.Give these guys a shout or just get a spool gun for your MIG setup(if available)http://www.esab.com/jp/en/Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255You need 1 amp per thousandths thickness of the aluminum you will weld.
Reply:OK, so it sounds like for the occasional aluminium welding I have to do, it would be more cost effective to buy a spoolgun and put it on my MIG welder?Cheers!Dragon D-150 Arc WelderHobart Handler 175 Set up with 100% CO²WT-60 Plasma Arc Panasonic TIG Star YC-300TWX-2 Panasonic YX-0092UW Water Cooler for the TIG
Reply:Or maybe I should buy the Hobart 190 that comes with the spool gun ready to go, shipped to me in Japan is about $1200......Or the Hobart 500551 EZ TIG 165i 230-Volt Inverter-Based AC/DC Welder shipped to Japan for $1700.....Dragon D-150 Arc WelderHobart Handler 175 Set up with 100% CO²WT-60 Plasma Arc Panasonic TIG Star YC-300TWX-2 Panasonic YX-0092UW Water Cooler for the TIG
Reply:Spool gun is only good on stuff that's on the thicker side.  I'm not 100% on exact thickness, but I believe it's not recommended for anything thinner than .080.  Also, not the easiest to learn.  DSW is right about needing a little more than 1/.001.  But with inverters and balance, you do get a little more heat into the part.  With a little preheat and the right balance, a lot of guys here report being able to do 1/4" aluminum with a Dynasty 200 and pure argon.  Helium will increase the heat, but it's costly.  When you get to big 1/4" aluminum jobs, the spooky is your best bet.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:OK, I got another question, I put up a link to a TIG welder here in Japan, and I made a mistake, it is MT-200WA that I wanted to link to.This is a 200 Amp unit, and it is for sure AC/DC. About $2200 here in Japan, local company, and from what I can tell on their website, this is a "Made in Japan" product, so I'm thinking it's a well made product.The big question is about the foot control, this I guess has torch control, no foot control, how big a thing is that? Is it more of a personal preference thing or...?Cheers!PS my lovely wife is telling me to pull the trigger on this purchase, so I should strike while the iron is HOT! Dragon D-150 Arc WelderHobart Handler 175 Set up with 100% CO²WT-60 Plasma Arc Panasonic TIG Star YC-300TWX-2 Panasonic YX-0092UW Water Cooler for the TIG
Reply:Don't go with overseas junk. Oh.......wait a minute.......you may wanna go overseas on this one.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Wow so a 200amp ac/dc Sanrex branded as Shindaiwa sells for around $4500 us. https://translate.googleusercontent....RaGg5v3eBCBpBQFinger or foot its preference in my book I have never tried the finger controls but have been in position to have wanted one reaching with my knee contorting myself to hit it the foot peddle.Last edited by nikodell; 01-20-2014 at 12:56 PM.
Reply:After a lot of research on the net, and sending emails to three or four companies that are selling these made in China TIG welders, and not getting straight answers to easy questions, I've decided to go with the local made in Japan TIG welder, the MIGHT company's MT-200WA pictured above. I like the idea that if it breaks or need servicing the factory is in this country and they have an office here in Tokyo as well. I think the basic machine will cost me just over $2300.Thanks for the help.Dragon D-150 Arc WelderHobart Handler 175 Set up with 100% CO²WT-60 Plasma Arc Panasonic TIG Star YC-300TWX-2 Panasonic YX-0092UW Water Cooler for the TIG
Reply:check out our website LONGEVITYPhone: 877-566-4462
Reply:Stu, that MT-200WA looks exactly like the Shanghai WTL model WSME-200.  Here:  http://www.wtl.com.cn/ShowProduct_e.aspx?ID=251As far as I know, Shanghai WTL makes several of the Thermal Arc inverters and probably many of the CIGWELD units sold in Australia and England.  In Italy, WTL sells under their own name. Good stuff from what I've heard."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by longevity-inc.comcheck out our website
Reply:Stu if you don't want to screw around with the learning curve of Tig welding, just buy a Dynasty. I know nothing about Tig welding, so I just turn my Dynasty on place the torch close, and I get these!  Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:In fact, a certain seller here has a few models that look very much like they came from WTL.  There were pictures on their web site taken in some unnamed company in China.  Some of the pictures showed Thermal Dynamics plasma cutters in process."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumStu, that MT-200WA looks exactly like the Shanghai WTL model WSME-200.  Here:  http://www.wtl.com.cn/ShowProduct_e.aspx?ID=251As far as I know, Shanghai WTL makes several of the Thermal Arc inverters and probably many of the CIGWELD units sold in Australia and England.  In Italy, WTL sells under their own name. Good stuff from what I've heard.
Reply:Jap units are great.  As you already know, world renowned for their electronics. The older Thermal Arc Arcmasters (like mine, the 185 and 300) we're made in Japan and have a good reputation for durability.  Not a pro at all, but I find little difference in the AC arc vs. a Miller Dynasty.  I've read that Miller copied their soft square wave arc from the TA jap units.  Apparently all made by Sanrex.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Oh boy, this is becoming a saga of sorts.The last deal fell through, the guy misrepresented the machine, he said it was AC-DC but it was DC only, much to my chagrin, well that is not going to do.I've found another used industrial machine, this looks good, yes it is not all new fancy digital, but it looks to be in good shape, made in Japan, and has been refurbished.Panasonic TIG Star WX-300The shop that is selling it says they have cleaned it and checked everything out, it is in good condition.The torch is an aircooled unit but new, same with the ground wire and the switch that goes on the torch, no foot pedal here.There is also a new cover for the torch hoses and wires and a new argon regulator.This is a bad translation of the seller's description....[QUOTE]TIG popular of Panasonic! It is an exhibition of WX-300. Since AC-DC dual-use TIG, a lot of hope can be aluminium welding it becomes a model. In DC, various metal or stainless steel iron, copper, and titanium, weldable stable arc with twin-mounted inverter can be maintained, enabling high-quality welding. Of course, are also equipped with crater function and pulse, exchange software, exchange hard, and in a convenient aluminium welding is obtained penetration deeper by concentrating the arc by outputting alternating AC and DC in MIXTIG welding function deployment , I can neatly aluminium welding further.I did set all new accessories. Air-cooled torch 8m, argon gas adjustment period, new ground cable all internal cleaning inspection completed, panel re-painted, pre-operation check./QUOTE]This machine is NOT new, it is from the early 1990's I think, as I found this write up about it in English dated December 1st 1994>>LINK<<TIG welder delivers in compact package.TIG*welding can become a messy, expensive job. However, Panasonic has created a low-cost, low-power welding system that is capable of welding aluminum and other exotic metals. The WX 300 welding system draws only 30 A on a three-phase line, but its output power for TIG welding is 300 A. The power source is one-third the size of most equivalent conventional machines and includes many high-end functions such as AC pulsing and sequencing. It's priced at $5500. The welder is suggested for parts that will be subject to stress in service because it uses a new process that provides 50% more penetration of the base metal than conventional systems. This capability also improves operator comfort. Instead of using 300 A for heavy work, the system can do the same job with just 200 A, saving power and reflecting less heat back to the operator. All TIG welders involve manipulation of the polarity*of AC and DC sources to balance cleaning and penetration of the welds, but Panasonic adds a new wrinkle. Every cycle of its new dual system starts out with a short burst of DC, followed by a burst of AC. Each burst lasts 0.4 sec, and the supply continuously switches back and forth. The arc thus sees "Mixed TIG," and that's what*it's called. In operation, the positive side of the AC cycle cleans the aluminum surface, but it also tends to overheat*the tungsten. The minus side gives the penetration into the base metal. The AC cycle provides sufficient cleaning and penetration. In the continuous negative DC portion of the 50/50 cycle, the Mixed TIG welder develops a strong penetration aspect ratio. The bottom line: more heating of the base, less heating of the tungsten. Tim Nacey, department manager for welding and laser products at Panasonic, says, "The most significant value of our system is for welding aluminum. Here, the greater penetration achieves extra strength. Or, we can go faster, or weld thicker material. "With conventional welding, 3/4"-thick aluminum requires helium or some other expensive gas just to get higher heat input into a thick aluminum shell. But helium costs twice as much as argon, and, fortunately, our Mixed TIG can weld thick aluminum without the more-expensive gas," says Mr Nacey. Saves tungsten Another advantage of the WX 300 is good control of tungsten consumption. The machine cools the tungsten when it runs on the minus DC part of the cycle, and warms it only during the AC part. Mr Nacey says, "In continuous AC systems, the positive side of the AC overheats the tungsten. So we generally can say that the tungsten erosion on our Mixed TIG machine is one-tenth that of a standard machine. Tight control also provides a weld of better quality, avoiding tungsten spitting that puts inclusions in the weld that show up later under X-ray examination." The Mixed TIG system also works without preheating aluminum, at least for 1/4" cross sections. With standard machines, preheating heavy aluminum to 200 F with an oxyacetylene torch*is important because aluminum is such a good conductor, transferring heat away from the weld. Mr Nacey notes, "With larger production systems, you can make brute-force TIC welds without preheating. But this would require overpowering*with amperage, and the welds would not have a good appearance. They certainly wouldn't meet the X-ray-quality specs we have to live by. And there would be porosity and fusion problems." Aerojet, Sacramento, CA, uses the Panasonic machine for repair of 5183 aluminum and A356 castings involved with liquid-fuel rocket engines. Gary Weeks likes the unit because of the restricted high-frequency umbrella. The arc stays close to the fusion zone, he says, avoiding most high-frequency scatter in the melt zone. He notes, "The Mixed TIG system restricts the high frequency to the localized spot right where you are welding. With other welders, the high frequency dances all around the weld zone and outside of the molten puddle. This causes surface crazing or checking. We still get some microfissure cracks, but well within the weld area--not way outside the fusion zone."
Reply:I'd still want a foot pedal.  The whole DC/AC thing sounds like they just used that method as a way of changing the AC balance.  They probably have the standard 60Hz AC wave, which would be 50/50 EP/EN and are adding 50% more EN to it.  So balance goes up to 75% EN to EP.  Very odd.  IDK, sounds pricey to me.  For all I know, that may be Japan's equivalent of a Miller Dynasty and the price might be great.  How old is the machine?TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Stu,   Looks like there was the same Panasonic model that sold for $230. at HGR Industrial Surplus in Ohio and another at Proxbid for $210. with a Bernard pump."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Not counting the pulsed DC/AC during tig, it looks to be approximately a Syncrowave 300 equivalent. Which I've seen around $1800-2500 near me.Still seems high to me - but pricing may be different in Tokyo.I would not spend that kind of cash without being very sure of the durability and parts availability of the welder.I've only got $225 in mine (machine and pedal only). I know that's super cheap but I find big old machines under $1000 pretty often.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255I'd still want a foot pedal.  The whole DC/AC thing sounds like they just used that method as a way of changing the AC balance.  They probably have the standard 60Hz AC wave, which would be 50/50 EP/EN and are adding 50% more EN to it.  So balance goes up to 75% EN to EP.  Very odd.  IDK, sounds pricey to me.  For all I know, that may be Japan's equivalent of a Miller Dynasty and the price might be great.  How old is the machine?
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumStu,   Looks like there was the same Panasonic model that sold for $230. at HGR Industrial Surplus in Ohio and another at Proxbid for $210. with a Bernard pump.The new version of this machine sells for $6000 http://page16.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u62135563Yeah, the pricing here is a bit different....Dragon D-150 Arc WelderHobart Handler 175 Set up with 100% CO²WT-60 Plasma Arc Panasonic TIG Star YC-300TWX-2 Panasonic YX-0092UW Water Cooler for the TIG
Reply:Aside from an older used machine that is of high quality, the other option I have is a cheap Chinese unit like this one.....http://page15.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/j...ion/t344868602Just over $500Dragon D-150 Arc WelderHobart Handler 175 Set up with 100% CO²WT-60 Plasma Arc Panasonic TIG Star YC-300TWX-2 Panasonic YX-0092UW Water Cooler for the TIG