buying steel? variable prices?

admin

I'm new at welding and have built a couple shelves and such but nothing major. I'm definitely still learning. I need to ask if my experience buying steel is "normal".First I called the closest steel supply (that I know of) to my house. Steel Supply in NW Houston. (http://www.steelsupplylp.com/) I asked how much a piece of 16ga, 1" square steel tubing costs. Btw, it comes in 24ft lengths. The phone salesman immediately said "$15 a piece". I explained I was drawing something up, just more simple shelving and needed to know for that. Later on I went to the NW location to buy the steel. Any time that I have been there in the past, I've noticed that nothing in the storefront is priced. And anytime you ask one of the counter guys about price, they click on the computers, click around some more, hesitate, think and then say a price. It seems like they don't have a price sheet they refer to but instead maybe check cost and then size you up and determine what to charge. Today pretty much played out that way. I told the salesguy I wanted 5 pieces of 1" square 16ga. He clicks, clicks some more, hesitates and finally I say that I had called earlier and was quoted $15 a piece. He immediately says "oh, ok, so that's what you were quoted? That's cool". And then he punches it in. I laugh and tell him "nah....maybe it was $14 a piece" and he pauses and says "let me see what I can do".......more sighing, clicking around and finally says "I can give it to you for $14.90". I laughed and said "wow......really appreciate the 50ct price break on the 5 piece order your'e sliding me". He then says "well hang on.......ok.......I can do $14.20". At this point I'm convinced he's pulling numbers out of his head. I said thanks and that I appreciate it as every little bit counts."Get my ticket and on the way to the pickup area I see some welding machines, carts and such. I spy a nice little cart that I could use and sure enough, no price on it. I ask another salesguy. He starts punching around on the computer and (pointing to the screen I can't see) asks another guy "is this that cart over there" and asks how much is it. The older guy walks over looks at the screen, the cart, then finally at me before looking at the screen again and says "It was on sale last week for $110 but its $130 now. We can still give you that sale price though." Well I didn't come for a cart so I said thanks and let me get this job done. While waiting for my steel to be loaded I look it up online and see it almost everywhere for $75 normal price and with some research I finally find it for $50. I understand just like ammo at the gun range, things like this will be more expensive but I seriously believe I was sized up and the price was pitched. So to get to the point........is it normal for a place to have a price sheet that they can refer to? Or are all steel sales like buying a used car? Is there somewhere online where I can see what is the going rate (generally) for steel? The way it is now, I ask a price and short of driving around and finding some other shops, I have no way of knowing. The guys there seem nice enough but I really feel like I'm getting screwed. And more specifically, any recommendations for steel supply places in Houston TX?
Reply:Depends a lot on your supplier.One place I go, they have the price per foot all worked out. However it's based on what they paid for it last. That means that an "odd size" piece of steel can some times be a lot more or less expensive than a piece that moves more frequently. I've bought 5/8" round bar for less than 1/2" simply because they haven't bought 5/8" for a while and current steel prices are higher.Another guy I deal with mostly for specialty steels sells everything by the pound. So lets say you need a 2 3/4"  square x 17" piece of 4140. He has to look up the weight per cubic inch of the material, calculate how many cubic inches you are getting, then take that number and multiply it by the cost for than material. get 3 or 4 different items, and you can be there for a bit.  He doesn't even use a computer, he does it all with pencil and paper and a calculator...A bigger yard I deal with I know gives out volume discounts for bigger customers. It can some times pay for me to combine my order with a buddy of mines when he orders. I get better pricing, he gets more volume that lowers his prices next year.Last place you ever want to shop is a box store for steel. I pay like 1/4th the price at even my most expensive supplier compared to Home Depot/Lowes..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The old guy I buy from sits behind a desk, the yard guys tell him what your buying he punches the calculator and tells you the price. Then pickup your stuff, that simple.I know my guy charges by the pound as dsw stated. I also I make it a point to tip the guys who help me in the yard so when I go back next time they will help me out a little bit with some extra steel.The place you go sounds like my airgas Last edited by Basicwelder54; 06-16-2014 at 09:27 PM.
Reply:Steel .35 to. 85 cents lb plate and structural ,pipe and tubing more .
Reply:My local airgas in Charlotte, NC is totally like that. One time they spent over 5 minutes looking up the price of a pair or leather tig gloves on clearance. I told them forget it, you wasted enough of my time. I never go there any more. Argon price was insane. Almost all the aluminum places I have called up price aluminum by the pound, its around $2 to $3 a pound depending on distributor.  the price is fairly consistent.buying steel is like buying snake oil from a used car salesmanHere's the trick to finding out the "real street price" Call them up and tell them what is the price for 200 lengths of square tube. Call up a competitor and ask them what the price is for the same thing.Ask the higher company to bring down their price.say you want to just get a few sticks to make sure it is the quality you want, If you wnat a rule of thumb, look up the product on mcmastercarr.com and generally speaking you can get it at least 1/4 the price if bought the same thing  locally in significant quantities. For example:I called up two different steel suppliers today. One quoted me $5.86 for a 20' length of 3/16 X 1/2  1018 flat bar. (qty of 30)and $12 to deliverrace city steel quoted me   3/16 x ½ CRx 12' 1018 Flat Bar    $16.36ea  + Shipping  APPROX $150.00which was about the same price mcmaster wanted so I knew it was a joke.which is 4.7xx the price for the same stuff from aeroBasically you have to do your homework or you will get screwed.
Reply:I have seen this happen before. I will call and get a price on the steel I need for a quote. Sometimes when I get there they will have a different price. I called up and used a large manufactures name to get a price. You guessed it, about fiffteen percent less than my quoted price. I guess volume does payoff. I think I'm going to bring a case of beer next time. I'll see if that changes anything.
Reply:Originally Posted by houstonch73I'm new at welding and have built a couple shelves and such but nothing major. I'm definitely still learning. I need to ask if my experience buying steel is "normal".First I called the closest steel supply (that I know of) to my house. Steel Supply in NW Houston. (http://www.steelsupplylp.com/) I asked how much a piece of 16ga, 1" square steel tubing costs. Btw, it comes in 24ft lengths. The phone salesman immediately said "$15 a piece". I explained I was drawing something up, just more simple shelving and needed to know for that. Later on I went to the NW location to buy the steel. Any time that I have been there in the past, I've noticed that nothing in the storefront is priced. And anytime you ask one of the counter guys about price, they click on the computers, click around some more, hesitate, think and then say a price. It seems like they don't have a price sheet they refer to but instead maybe check cost and then size you up and determine what to charge. Today pretty much played out that way. I told the salesguy I wanted 5 pieces of 1" square 16ga. He clicks, clicks some more, hesitates and finally I say that I had called earlier and was quoted $15 a piece. He immediately says "oh, ok, so that's what you were quoted? That's cool". And then he punches it in. I laugh and tell him "nah....maybe it was $14 a piece" and he pauses and says "let me see what I can do".......more sighing, clicking around and finally says "I can give it to you for $14.90". I laughed and said "wow......really appreciate the 50ct price break on the 5 piece order your'e sliding me". He then says "well hang on.......ok.......I can do $14.20". At this point I'm convinced he's pulling numbers out of his head. I said thanks and that I appreciate it as every little bit counts."Get my ticket and on the way to the pickup area I see some welding machines, carts and such. I spy a nice little cart that I could use and sure enough, no price on it. I ask another salesguy. He starts punching around on the computer and (pointing to the screen I can't see) asks another guy "is this that cart over there" and asks how much is it. The older guy walks over looks at the screen, the cart, then finally at me before looking at the screen again and says "It was on sale last week for $110 but its $130 now. We can still give you that sale price though." Well I didn't come for a cart so I said thanks and let me get this job done. While waiting for my steel to be loaded I look it up online and see it almost everywhere for $75 normal price and with some research I finally find it for $50. I understand just like ammo at the gun range, things like this will be more expensive but I seriously believe I was sized up and the price was pitched. So to get to the point........is it normal for a place to have a price sheet that they can refer to? Or are all steel sales like buying a used car? Is there somewhere online where I can see what is the going rate (generally) for steel? The way it is now, I ask a price and short of driving around and finding some other shops, I have no way of knowing. The guys there seem nice enough but I really feel like I'm getting screwed. And more specifically, any recommendations for steel supply places in Houston TX?
Reply:Sounds like industry standards. I get there here in Utah at a local place. Now that they know me a bit better I get a better price, but it's still a whacky place to shop.Regards,RobGreat Basin WeldingInstagramBlue weldersRed weldersMy luscious Table DIY TIG Torch cooler
Reply:I have a somewhat different view of steel prices.   When I am designing something, I estimate $1 a pound.   With the book from my supplier, it is easy to figure out the weight per foot or square foot of any shape.   I could of course calculate it from the calculated volume, but it is easier to just use the book.   So I know approximately what it is going to cost before I talk to the supplier.    Tube may be a little more than $1/pound, bar a little less.I don't really need to know much more than just that, $1 per pound.    Now if somebody would quote me a price that works out to $2/pound, then I would probably balk.I don't really have a lot of choices, in practice.  Most of the suppliers in my area are focused on the big customers; if you are not spending $200 or $500, they don't want to talk to you.  Occasionally I have a big order, and then I would probably get three prices.   But if I am spending $25, why worry if the price is $0.90 vs. $1.10, especially with limited choices.RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:Thats why I like the scrap yard. Selection sucks, condition can be any where from new, to painted to rusted, but 15 cents a pound you cant go wrong.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:I just paid $1 per pound for cold rolled steel in the drop area for leftover pieces. rolleyes.
Reply:@ raferguson - check.  For planning purposes, $1/lb is on the money.  Usually, rip A36 here for $0.50/lb.  Establish rapport with the local steel suppliers and you'll gain margin.  For material takeoffs and acquisition, $1/lb is a solid starting point.  BTW, sweet mild steel "Honu" and Cu art on your website!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:I've felt the same frustration at my steel supplier, and when I questioned the guy (gently) as to what he was doing, he got defensive and thought I was trying to put one over on >him<. As best as I can figure, steel is sold on the commodities market (like oil or gas or pork bellies) so the price fluctuates from day to day. The guy at the steel supplier has to click on his computer to know what today's market price is for a given piece of steel.This is also the reason NOT to buy steel from Lowes or Home Deep: because they don't have the ability to change the price from day to day, so they inflate the price to something they know will be profitable, and that inflated price is way above the market price.This is all just a guess on my part, but it seems to hold together pretty well.
Reply:Thanks for all the replies and advice.  It does make sense that its a changing commodity but it seems like they would have a "base price" for walk-ins like myself and then would adjust it accordingly to larger customers.  I have no beef with giving a large order a break. Its just business.  The think that irks me though is not knowing what the starting point is. Starting out, I just don't know what is a "good" price (there at their shop).  I've gained some insight though thanks to eveyrone's replies. Im going to keep looking and find another supplier if I can.
Reply:Here's the way it's done here in Utopia, TX.
Reply:Today, during a CraigsList S&S search & score activity while on travel, ripped 2ea - 1/2" x 1' x 4' A36 plates for $40 cash.  Approx $0.25/lb.  The shop had literally tons of 1/8", 1/4", and 1/2" available but only at a max width of 1'.  Really was targeting 2' width sections.  All in all, not a bad score.  Steel was mint condition."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:My lws sells fibremetal pipeliner helmets for $95....Metal is good price tho.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:I've been planning a table build for sometime now, whenever I save up the extra money to buy the steel I'll go ahead with it so I've got time to plan it.How much do you guys think it would cost for a 1/2" plate, maybe 8' x 4'? Not sure what size plate comes in but I'm pretty there is a 48" wide plate.
Reply:That is sure good to know about the $1 per pound. Maybe even I can remember that. What kind of scrap yard are you guys going to we here they will let you but anything from them? Several here close used to 10 years ago, but not anymore that I know of. In Utopia-What kind of rods are you getting for $3 per pound?AK-Is everything up there more expensive?SA-250 TMDSquarewave 200Thunderbolt AC/DC1951 G.E. welder
Reply:Steel is a commodity, not a product. Prices change constantly with the market.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bosco99Steel is a commodity, not a product. Prices change constantly with the market.
Reply:Make sure they are not adding on cutting fee. I ordered some rectangle tubing for a project. It was cheaper for me to buy 24 ft instead of 20 ft because there was a $15.00 cutting fee. I showed up at the warehouse with a hacksaw. The guys there smiled then cut it for free so I could get it into the car.
Reply:@ Tat2dHandz - 1/2" x 4' x 8' A36 plate weighs ~ 20lb/SF, or ~ 650 lb total.  Your price depends on the current market value for steel from your local steel supplier.  As many have mentioned, commonly between US $0.50-.075/lb new.  Def check CL in your region to see if there are any deals to be gained."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:These new store security cams are often equipped with a digital ID system that is linked to the central computer.  So they know who they are dealing with before you get to the counter."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:LOL!Similar story!I called about a hydraulic filter (availability/price), he says $15 to which I reply GREAT! I'll pick it up at 5pm. At 5pm and different guy is at the counter, he's clicking away while shooting the breeze(bull). Suddenly says, did you call in I said yes that's why I am here. Clicks around some more, then asks if I got a price, not thinking I reply $15. Driving home I realize I should have asked him what his offer was! OH, Well!Steel Price? 25 cents a pound.Originally Posted by Bosco99Steel is a commodity, not a product. Prices change constantly with the market.
Reply:I pretty much buy structural steel, tubing, bar, round at $0.50/pound (lowest rate) at the surplus outlet of biggest supplier regardless of how little I might be picking up. But they do have me on their computer with an account although I always pay on pickup. I usually can get what I need in surplus. Prime stock is obviously more, in the $1/pound range. Sheet, expanded metal,  treadplate ect is priced by piece. If I need a few small things I have another small supplier who carries small quantities of just about everything,  higher prices but more selection of DOM tubing, stainless, aluminum and oddball sized bar stock. They supply most of the local tool & die & mold shops.Sent from my SCH-I605 using TapatalkRyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask