this job kinda found me

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i needed a couple thin angle pieces for a project and thought a bed frame would be perfect for this. so I went to the furniture store a couple blocks away to see if they had an old ones they got from delivering new ones. told the guy I needed them for a quick welding project and he said he didn't have any but needed some welding done himself. so he gave me these to fix. now this aint an easy task with just a stick welder. getting them straight on the center part is the hardest part. the center hubs had been broken out due to the chineese welds on them. they are from furniture dollys and the heavy couches break them out often. they also have a couple dollys they want modified for this same job. here are the pics of the wheels.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:oh yea very thin metal welded with 3/32 6013Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:I use bed frame angle for a lot of projects but just be careful what you use it for.  It is typically brittle and can break at the weld making it unsuitable for critical applications.Just in case you weren't already aware.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:fdude, with all my admiration for your efforts, this is a fail.Sorry, re grind and re weld...good luckwhat hddnis said below is right chineese stuff is harder to weld sometimes. And quick weld are words from non welders, there's no such quick thing called weld. you gained experience today Last edited by snowbird; 03-14-2014 at 10:42 PM.
Reply:Those little china made wheels are a pain to weld. I've had a number of them break on me and welded them because that was faster than going to town to get a new one. I take them apart, weld FCAW as it seems to work well with the mystery mix steel alloy they use in china. Then I clean them up and give them a shot of paint. It makes them way better than new.Mr. HE
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64
Reply:You might want to take a look at this thread and watch the attached videos for future reference....http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...e-wheels-tires.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW +1 X10....darn i'm aware of pyrolisis and these small tires made me forget it...thank's for the reminder
Reply:Hey fdude64 - all good advice here today. Excellent reminder DSW!!You violated a major safety rule that you were unaware of - make sure you ask for advice first next time man, we don't want you blowing yourself up. ...and yeah, grind that off and do it over - that was not a weld bud (remove the tire though).Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 03-14-2014 at 11:07 PM.Reason: SpellingDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:great advise and didn't know about pyrolysis. but I do now. that bead in the first pic was a fail. that metal is only 1/16. and as far as advise before hand here is a question, the owner of the gas station wants me to put a patch on a post for the canopy over the pumps. I told him this is only a Band-Aid and the post should be replaced as it is starting to rust out  in spots and the integrity of the post has been compromised. he said he just wants to cover it up till later this fall when he is going to replace the whole canopy. this post is about 3 feet from one of the pumps and this will be done when the station is closed to prevent the obvious fumes. I would use a large canvas tarp between the post and pump to prevent sparks from reaching the pump. should I do it or not?Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Tell the gas station owner no. CYAAirco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64great advise and didn't know about pyrolysis. but I do now. that bead in the first pic was a fail. that metal is only 1/16. and as far as advise before hand here is a question, the owner of the gas station wants me to put a patch on a post for the canopy over the pumps. I told him this is only a Band-Aid and the post should be replaced as it is starting to rust out  in spots and the integrity of the post has been compromised. he said he just wants to cover it up till later this fall when he is going to replace the whole canopy. this post is about 3 feet from one of the pumps and this will be done when the station is closed to prevent the obvious fumes. I would use a large canvas tarp between the post and pump to prevent sparks from reaching the pump. should I do it or not?
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou might want to take a look at this thread and watch the attached videos for future reference....http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...e-wheels-tires
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopThank You Doug!!!!!!You saved my life with this link!!!!~John
Reply:Yeah. What we do can kill you quick ! If you aren't 100% positive on ANYTHING, shut down and go study !Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:I wouldnt come near a gas station canopy. If anything happens to fail, even a different corner or post, it makes YOU liable as you were the last one to inspect and "repair" it.
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopThank You Doug!!!!!!You saved my life with this link!!!!~John
Reply:Bed rails have been bad material to work with long before the Chinese got involved with manufacturing them.  They're made for strength which means they will be brittle and more likely to suffer from Heat Affected Zone or that weakening of the material right next to the weld.On the other hand, if you're needing something harder than a bad girl's heart and you don't have to weld and you have a method of drilling, slow with pressure, it can be some great stuff.As for the liability thing, funny about that, it seems the liability lawyers always go for the deepest pockets.  So a wannabe-a-welder making a typical wannabe-a-welder mistake won't be gone after unless of course he/she is well off financially.  On the other hand, those cheap jerks who invariably find the newbie to do their stupid patch work have the most to lose and usually do under these circumstances.  Juries aren't idiots, they're us.life is good
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64great advise and didn't know about pyrolysis. but I do now. that bead in the first pic was a fail. that metal is only 1/16. and as far as advise before hand here is a question, the owner of the gas station wants me to put a patch on a post for the canopy over the pumps. I told him this is only a Band-Aid and the post should be replaced as it is starting to rust out  in spots and the integrity of the post has been compromised. he said he just wants to cover it up till later this fall when he is going to replace the whole canopy. this post is about 3 feet from one of the pumps and this will be done when the station is closed to prevent the obvious fumes. I would use a large canvas tarp between the post and pump to prevent sparks from reaching the pump. should I do it or not?
Reply:On something that is rusted,you will find that the hole usually is far  far larger than what you can see.If it is just an appearance repair, just cut a piece of sheet metal and epoxy it over the hole.A little paint and it will work for a while.
Reply:I was gonna do something like this pic, only with 1 1/2 pipe nipple with a pipe cap to protect valve stems on bobcats....Scary Scary....~John
Reply:today I am starting on the dolly mods. the want a 1/4 plate 5"x32" welded to the dolly to help support the heavy furniture and protect the products from rubbing the tires. I will have some pics in a bit. had to charge the camera.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:here are some pics of the start of the dolly mod. the 1/4 plate came from an old basket ball backboard post that the guy put up in the 60s for his children. the pipe was a piece of gas line main.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou might want to take a look at this thread and watch the attached videos for future reference....http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...e-wheels-tires
Reply:here are a couple more pics. do the numbers on the plate mean anything? had trouble getting the weld to bond into the edge of the plate where it met the dolly.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)fdude,Please STOP.From the photos you've posted and the questions you've asked, you don't have a freaking clue what you're doing.If you continue, you're going to get someone hurt (or worse).  Even a basic welder should understand his "limitations".  Please get some "instruction" before you proceed.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:well if I stop I will never learn. i aint no quitter. yea some of the pics i have posted have been not very good but there have been some fairly good ones too. i bet ou woke up one morning and were a perfect welder. give me a break i am atleast trying.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64well if I stop I will never learn. i aint no quitter. yea some of the pics i have posted have been not very good but there have been some fairly good ones too. i bet ou woke up one morning and were a perfect welder. give me a break i am atleast trying.
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64well if I stop I will never learn. i aint no quitter. yea some of the pics i have posted have been not very good but there have been some fairly good ones too. i bet ou woke up one morning and were a perfect welder. give me a break i am atleast trying.
Reply:thanks Wroghtn  i am still practicing on basic stuff. Dave my work has been about non existent lately, the guy at the furniture wanted some simple (or what i thought was simple till i saw he safety vid.) repairs done and a mod to a furniture dolly. i need he money. the gas station owner asked me one day when i was gassing up the welder. it is not hat i have been going out looking for work but if i can make a buck or two and the customer is satisfied then i don't think it is a bad thing. i did weld a dump body on a truck a while back and the guy almost turned it over lifting the front of the bed with a forklift to install the hoist and said if it didn't break hen i wasn't  going to. i told him i was pretty green and he said i did better than he would have, and he was going to do it himself till he found out i was going to welding classes and asked me to do it for him. i am really trying to give this a decent effort and have tried to get some of the locals that are on here to help me and have gotten no help. tried to get some help from the school where i took my classes and was turned away. so how am i supposed to learn otherwise?Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Be care-full, once you take money for doing it puts you in whole different area as far as liability and responsibility.Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by leightrepairsBe care-full, once you take money for doing it puts you in whole different area as far as liability and responsibility.Mike
Reply:I'm not sure if you do or don't. Sadly there are a lot of people out there today that want everything for nothing. They'll jump at the chance to sue anyone. Even if you win, you loose, since it will cost you to defend yourself. Just because you don't have money now, doesn't mean that you can't get a judgment against you that you will have to pay for years, or that they won't go after what ever little you do have.I've seen customers sue to get out of having to pay to have work done. You do a decent sized job, then the customer turns around and sues because it was done "wrong". Now you have to pay to fight this in court and prove you did the work right. Just because they say they don't care earlier, won't matter in court if they change their tune. I worked for a guy who did decorative concrete. We did a couple thousand dollar job for a client redoing an old patio.  Customers 1st complaint was that the house was dirty from the color and release we used. So the boss had us all out there one day to power wash the back of the house where we'd been working as a gesture of good will. Now the customer wasn't happy because the clean back of the house didn't match the rest of the house that had moss and mold in places... In the end they ended up in court because the client wanted to play Monte Hall and "Lets make a Deal" to get out of the remaining 1/3 they owed on the patio. In court they complained how "poor" the job was, how the patio had been cut ( even though it had been explained that was standard procedure right from the start), the wife talked about how every day it made her sick to the stomach at how bad the patio looked and how much money they'd spent to do it... In the end, they found a fine print in one of the color brochures my boss had given them. It said the contractor would use 4" of stone and 4" of concrete... They went around the whole patio and took pictures every 6" with a ruler showing every small place where a stone had fallen up against the forms showing less than 4" of concrete even though the rest was clearly more than 4".  In the end the judge said even though my boss had paperwork showing way more crete on the job than was required to do 4" of coverage, there was no way he could prove that it wasn't thin in the center. Judge awarded the customer full value on the job. So my boss was out all the work and materials plus his court costs. In theory the money returned was supposed to help pay for the new patio, but they never did replace it. They just managed to find an angle that got them a free patio. Even the judge though their case was BS and said so in court. However he stated there wasn't enough proof my boss had put down the 4" of crete the pamphlet stated. He said with out that statement in the pamphlet, he'd have ruled against the customer.I've seen this dozens of times over the years. I'm always leery when I get new customers wondering when it will be my turn to get sued by someone who wants stuff for nothing.Once you start taking money, you are in a whole new ballgame. That dolly might seem like peanuts, but if the guy damages a $1000 piece of furniture using it, or something goes wrong and a customers rug gets damaged by the dolly, YOU may find yourself the one who is in court. It may not even matter that it's not due to something you did. They may just be trying to shift the blame ( and the cost) to some one else..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Look man please listen to all the advise given here. No one is trying to discourage you from learning but you have no where near the skill set to be taking on jobs. I bought my first tig three years ago. It was a process that I had never been exposed to before but really wanted to be able to my resume. Now I have been mig and stick welding for almost 20 years at this point. Just because I had the machine didn't mean I put it to work right away making money. Even with years of structural and equiptment repair experience with the other processes I logged a couple hundred hours of practice and penetration tests before I took on money jobs. My suggestion is this. If what ever your current profession is slow and you enjoy metal working. Look for jobs at local fab shops where you can get real world experience. Trade jobs just can't be jumped into simply because you have the equipment. I have all kinds of wood working stuff trust me you wouldn't want me as a carpenter. Besides wood sucks anyways. Slow it down man don't get ahead of yourself. If this is something you want to get good at don't take these jobs without the skills or equipment to do them correctly. Even if no one gets hurt you may hurt your rep as a welder and that will take way longer to build up then it will to loose.
Reply:You need to find a welder buddy to guide you.  Some people just aren't going to pick this up reading about it.  I have helped guys go from basic welder to pretty proficient in 5 minutes of demonstration.  They were close but just needed nudging to try a certain technique and then it just clicked.
Reply:Hey fdude60, sorry for some of the guys being so blunt. It's just when you have weldslike what you showed and the word "gas station" people tend to get riled up. I agree with cd19 that you just need to find someone to help you. Until then "stick" with non structural and fumes. (sorry for the pun) I see potential, and the dolly was a good project.
Reply:DSW,Thanks a million for posting those tire videos....I would have never thought that type of reaction could occur.  You probably saved a few arms and legs, if not lives, by doing so.  I'm passing those video links on to lots of folks.  Wow....
Reply:Thanks, but I can't take credit for the original thread. That has to go to A_DAB_will_do and mtlmster here who did the original posts with videos.It is important to occasionally look back at some of the older safety threads on occasion to remind people of these sorts of dangers and let new guys see them for the 1st time. Mike's thread on his compressor explosion and this one on tires are great examples of many that have been posted up in the past. Those of us who have been here longer and remember these things need to keep them in mind to post up when the need arises..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by itslukedavisHey fdude60, sorry for some of the guys being so blunt. It's just when you have weldslike what you showed and the word "gas station" people tend to get riled up. I agree with cd19 that you just need to find someone to help you. Until then "stick" with non structural and fumes. (sorry for the pun) I see potential, and the dolly was a good project.
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64 I really didn't think doing a cosmetic cover up would  hurt anything
Reply:that could beLincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:There is a thing called work ethic. Do a job right, or just don't do it. We all have to make that decision. Guys that just slap things together any old way cheap, get a reputation for being a hack. Guys that take their time and do it right are often considered craftsmen.There are times when we need to just get things done. It might be because something needs to get stuck back together long enough to get it back to the shop for a full repair. Weather may not allow you to do everything perfect, like fixing plows in a storm. However that still doesn't mean you don't do the best you can with what is available in the conditions you have to work with.Many times a customer will just want it stuck back together and call it good. It's you as a professional who decides if this is the way you want to run your business. If you get a reputation for slapping things together cheap, that's what you will end up doing. Guys won't pay to do it right. If you learn to stand your ground, you'll loose work. However is that the type of work you want to be doing? Reputations are easy to get and hard to change. I've been told my prices on work are high. However I get a lot of repeat customers and they all tell their friends and I get the vast portion of my new customers from referrals. I had a customer I spoke to last weekend about a job. I haven't even given them a price yet and they want to give me a deposit. I've done work for them in the past and they know it won't be cheap, however they know it will be done right..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:dsw yes I agree it should be done right the first time, that is how I was raised, I told the station owner that just patching it up wasn't the way to fix it and I didn't have the means to do it right and he still wanted it covered up. but looking back at it now I can see the outta sight outta mind thing and it not getting done right till it failed.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64dsw yes I agree it should be done right the first time, that is how I was raised, I told the station owner that just patching it up wasn't the way to fix it and I didn't have the means to do it right and he still wanted it covered up. but looking back at it now I can see the outta sight outta mind thing and it not getting done right till it failed.
Reply:Hey fdude,I definitely don't want to discourage you, I am trying to learn to weld myself and like you sometimes I get good weld and sometimes I weld bad welds, I've welded mostly for myself to practice and I've seen some of those welds fail. Now I am taking lessons and I'm learning the things I was doing wrong and the things I was supposed to do but never did. If someone is paying you, they definitely expect it to be a good repair even if they tell you that they don't. I don't have enough knowledge to tell you everything that can go wrong with that gas station repair, but certainly I wouldn't take on that job if I am not 100% confident on what I'm doing.  Just my 2 cents.  P.S. Don't give up, we'll be great welders in the future I'm sure.
Reply:fdude,One of these days you might be driving by that service station and the roof might be caved in.  Maybe it was "patched" by someone else as a quick and dirty job and you can say to yourself..."that could have been my work, glad I passed up the job"...CLOSE CALL!!
Reply:Originally Posted by shortfusefdude,One of these days you might be driving by that service station and the roof might be caved in.  Maybe it was "patched" by someone else as a quick and dirty job and you can say to yourself..."that could have been my work, glad I passed up the job"...CLOSE CALL!!