Welding test lab

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Hello everyone,I am looking to set up a welding test lab but dont know exactly what that all intails and am hoping some of you could provide some insight into what will all be needed.Thank you,Heiden
Reply:Test Lab for what? Welder certification like in school or WQPs or something along the line of NDT's like X-ray test and metallurgy services?Last edited by silvertina; 06-09-2015 at 10:22 AM.
Reply:Not to be flippant - but I'm assuming the most critical requirement is a large checkbook Other than that - I'm curious why you would decide to open a testing facility without actually having the background to do so?Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:We will be doing both etching tests and tensile stregnth tests of the welds. They are working with Aluminum and stainless steel. The guys in the shop have put together a list of what they think they need to preform the tests:•Distilled water•PH testing supplies (Litmus Strip)•Neutralizers for all etchants•Marble’s Reagent for etching 300 Series Stainless Steel•Wet Grinder/Sander with polishing wheel•Microscope w/Camera and measuring software•Push/Pull Load cell with KSI read out•Refrigerator•Utility Sink•Waste containers•Storage Cabinet•PPE (Gloves, Goggles, Aprons, Face Shields, Lab Coats, etc.)•Vertical Band Saw•Petri dishes, Graduated Cylinders, and Beakers•Hot Plate•Tongs•Guided Bend Test JigBut I really dont know that much about this equipment or what grade of machine would be best for working with aluminum and stainless steel.I have set up a time to go and ubserve what they are currently doing to try and get a better understanding what the process requires but any suggestions would be great.I am sure I will have a better uderstanding of what I need to ask after I meet with the shop guys but until then all general information about etching tests on aluminum and stainless steel would be awesome. Thank you, Heiden
Reply:Welding at our facility has increased significantly and is going to continue to increase. it will be cheaper in the longer run to start to our own welding test lab then continue to ship the peices off and paying someone else to test them for us. thank you,Heiden
Reply:The type of tests currently being done are:•Section Tests - Macro-Etch•Hardness Testing •Push Out Tests – parent material They are being done manually currently and we would like to add:•Tensile Testing •Guided-Bend Tests – Plunger Type and Wrap Around Bends •Charpy Impact Testing •Push Out Tests – load cell measurementThank you, Heiden
Reply:Heiden, A couple thoughts for free:You mightt want to consider hiring a consultant with experience in metallurgical and mechanical testing.  A few dollars up front might save you real buyers remorse or budget woes later on.You'll need a test frame for pulling tensile specimens.  These are roughly $50,000 - $250,000 new, depending on what type of testing you need to do.  Look at Instron or Tinius-Olsen.  The higher price tags are for machines capable of fatigue testing using cyclic loading.You'll need a rockwell hardness tester and perhaps a micro-hardness tester as well.  Instron and a few other companies make these.  Check out LECO; I think they have a good, lower cost machine.  Again $10,000+ cost for new equipment.  If you're going to do Charpy V-notch Impact testing you're going to need a well equipped machine shop, inaddition to the machine for breaking samples.  A bandsaw, lathe, mill, grinding and surfacing equipment.  I don't have experience pricing this type of equipment, but I guess it's going to cost about what the testing equipment would for all the new machinery and tooling.A good metallographic optical microscope is going to set you back $10,000 or $20,000 new.  Depends on the digital camera, computer, and software you choose to use with it.  Lastly, Marbles reagent is one of many etchants suitable for use on stainless steel.  There's a list of about a dozen I could rattle off, if I put my mind to it.  There's also electrolytic etching.  Each has a specific purpose; whether you're trying to reveal carbides, grain boundaries, differentiate between ferrite and austenite, etc.  Marbles may very well be the right one for the job; but there might be something better.  It all depends on the type of stainless and what you want to learn from the samples.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:**NVM **Your "guys in the shop" are not certified destructive testing technicians. They can not perform these test even though you have the equipment. But if your so intent on building a testing lab your company probably has the money to send somebody for training. I would suggest you have a CWI that has been a welder go take the courses and exams.Last edited by AndrewDavenport89; 06-09-2015 at 04:02 PM.
Reply:@ Heiden - listen to A_Dab_will_do.  Have you really:really ran the numbers (ie. return on investment calcs, net present/future value numbers) to discern if, in fact, it will be cheaper for you to run/manage the testing of materials internally within your organization versus outsourcing?  The equipment required to conduct said "tests" is only 1/3 of the total cost.  The other thirds are O&M of the equipment and the management (ie. certified testing technicians, documentation, ASTM/ISO/AWS testing procedures, etc).Believe the math will show that your firm will not come out ahead in the near/long term.  Only you can decide.  Hiring a consultant, as suggested, is probably the first step to see if it really makes sense to pursue the endeavor.Last edited by ManoKai; 06-09-2015 at 04:18 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Yea, I think they need an actual consultant come in and they all sit in a conference room with the owners and crunch the numbers. How many times a month do they have to send a weldment for testing, how many times is that in a year. How much are the tests a pop. 500-1000 for each plate test? charpy-v-notch, hardness, side bends, root and face bends. I think we are spending about 1000 a pop for the few plate tests we sent off and they have all those test I mentioned done. We don't have to send maybe 4 in a year for testing where I am at. So lets say you send 50 tests in a year... 50k... you have way way way more in equipment and training costs for setting up your companies own personal lab. But if you do this every year for 15 more years.... that's 750,000. Now us on the other hand send maybe 4 to testing a year. that's 4,000 a year roughly x 15 years... that's 60,000. No need for us to spend that type of money on equipment, training personell or building a new shop just to test in either.
Reply:Thank you for all the information and suggestions. When doing a Micro-Etching test, what microscope would you suggest be used, and what magnification should it be able to go up too.
Reply:Google research will tell you a lot about the questions you need to know man. https://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1450
Reply:@ Heiden - you need to bound your problem.  The pros who performs these tests are well schooled/versed in ASTM standards.  For brevity, this firm lists the standards and services they are certified to accomplish.  Standards: http://www.labtesting.com/services/m...c-examination/Services: www.labtesting.com/services/weld-testing/You should be thinking between $ "five zeros" and "six zeros" to be full up and capable.  OES (optical emission spectroscopy) is one area in chemical analysis that is an industry discriminator.  An OES runs between $30k-$100k +.   By the way, a LECO 500 Image Analysis System (Microscropy) is not/not inexpensive.Last edited by ManoKai; 06-09-2015 at 05:39 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by HeidenThank you for all the information and suggestions. When doing a Micro-Etching test, what microscope would you suggest be used, and what magnification should it be able to go up too.
Reply:First a level 3 CWI to start out next 500000.00 worth of lab equipment or more with X ray lab. MUST Be experts in all required fields. A weld PQR runs around 8000 each.