Weld Volume to Wire Length

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I am currently trying to figure out how many inches of weld wire we are using on each part, in order to do this I need to figure out how many cubic inches of weld wire are in each weld.  Our parts have a combination of T-joint fillet welds, 8-mm plug/puddle welds, and lap welds.  How can I accurately measure the depth of one of these welds in order to be able to find the area? Also, once I have the total weld volume how can I use that information to convert it in to the amount of wire used in a barrel.  We use Miller Auto Axcess 300 Mig welders running ESAB Marathon Pac Solid wire at .035dia on to AHSS parts.  Any help I could recieve would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance,Alex Martin
Reply:Making a weld in the size you need for 1 minute would give you an idea of the volume you can put down. Then take your wire speed to figure how many inches of wire used for that volume.
Reply:So you're saying to basically weld for 1 minute constantly, and the afterward check what my wirefeed is at and use that to determine how much wire went in to that weld?  The only issue with this is its a robotic automated weld cell and I don't have the clearance to use the teach pendants, is there any other way I could do this or am I going to have to do it manually? I'm sorry for sounding so uneducated on the subject but if I have a wire speed of 600, how does that correlate in to inches used?
Reply:Really, are your bean counters that particular! With a stopwatch hold the trigger down for 10 seconds w/o striking an arc. Measure the wire in inches and multiply this by 6. That will equal IPM. Then figure the area of .035" times the amount of wire used in a minute to find cubic inches of wire used. Then using the stopwatch to time each weld made you can figure the approx. volume of each weld.                                      MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Awesome that is perfect, thank you.And the reason that we are is because we are an extremely large manufacturing company, so we are talking about possible savings of upwards of 60k a year in one weld cell alone, there are about 40 different weld cells within just my plant and there are 5 plants in my town and 4 others spread across the world (soon to be 6).So if I can prove my theorum and accomplish this we could be looking at a company wide savings of approximately $24mil per year
Reply:It seems that determining the weight of the filler used would make subsequent calculations more straightforward.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:Another question has come up now.  I've done the math and the area of a .035"dia wire would be ~.001"^2.With that being said, after 10 seconds at 450 wire speed I ended up with 45" of wire exactly (which based on our settings of 450 inches per minute, seems inaccurate, but that was the physical result).  so 45*6=270270*.001^2=.27 cubic inches of wire consumed, which seems extremely low.  If (based on weight conversions) we can fairly accurately estimate that one 900lb barrel of solid wire is equivilant to approximately 5,900 inches of wire (in length), then that would mean that there are only 5.9in^3 of wire in the entire barrel.  Is this correct?  Because that seems like an extremely low number.
Reply:This link has some usefull info maybe."amount of filler needed" &/or "inches of alloy per pound".http://weldingwire.com/general-technical-information"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:How do you figure to save money? If you need X amount of wire to do the specified size of weld, what is going to change? You could turn your wire speed and voltage up and do the same size of weld in less time. There's probably a maximum that will give you the fastest/most deposition but you might already be there. Also not all the weld wire coming off the reel goes into the weld, there's always some loss. Maybe you could change to a different type of wire and save even more time? Maybe you could go to a larger size wire? There's a bunch of information in the Procedure Handbook on figuring all this out. It looks pretty complex to me with lots of mathematical formulas.
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerbillIt seems that determining the weight of the filler used would make subsequent calculations more straightforward.
Reply:http://www.esabna.com/euweb/awtc/Lesson9_16.htm9.4.2Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by amartin74With that being said, after 10 seconds at 450 wire speed I ended up with 45" of wire exactly (which based on our settings of 450 inches per minute, seems inaccurate, but that was the physical result)
Reply:Originally Posted by amartin74Another question has come up now.  I've done the math and the area of a .035"dia wire would be ~.001"^2.With that being said, after 10 seconds at 450 wire speed I ended up with 45" of wire exactly (which based on our settings of 450 inches per minute, seems inaccurate, but that was the physical result).  so 45*6=270270*.001^2=.27 cubic inches of wire consumed, which seems extremely low.  If (based on weight conversions) we can fairly accurately estimate that one 900lb barrel of solid wire is equivilant to approximately 5,900 inches of wire (in length), then that would mean that there are only 5.9in^3 of wire in the entire barrel.  Is this correct?  Because that seems like an extremely low number.
Reply:Originally Posted by amartin74Another question has come up now.  I've done the math and the area of a .035"dia wire would be ~.001"^2.With that being said, after 10 seconds at 450 wire speed I ended up with 45" of wire exactly (which based on our settings of 450 inches per minute, seems inaccurate, but that was the physical result).  so 45*6=270270*.001^2=.27 cubic inches of wire consumed, which seems extremely low.  If (based on weight conversions) we can fairly accurately estimate that one 900lb barrel of solid wire is equivilant to approximately 5,900 inches of wire (in length), then that would mean that there are only 5.9in^3 of wire in the entire barrel.  Is this correct?  Because that seems like an extremely low number.
Reply:There's 3650 inches per pound of .035 steel MIG wire. 900 lb. spools would have 3,285,000 inches of wire! 5900? what were you smoking?
Reply:@ amartin74 - to add to Broccoli1's link, the ESAB Metal Filler Handbook has weld metal per ft/m calcations in tabular format.  The online .pdf is at www.esabna.com/euweb/fm_handbook/577fm8_9.htm.  Recommend you score a hardcopy for your shop, as the handy reference is invaluable if you are dealing with multiple joint geometries and need to calculate metal deposition volumes in the pursuit of economics and cost efficencies."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Well I have never been provided any of this information, I am literally starting this research from scratch for myself.  I am not an engineer I focus entirely on process improvement for my shop and being on 3rd shift I do not have access to anyone with any engineering knowledge while I am at work, this is why I came to this forum to ask about it.  I have been trying to figure this entire thing out on my own with no assistance whatsoever. Thank you Manokai for your help, and, Welder Dave, that was based off of the only formula I could find for solid mig weld wire, it seemed extremely low to me but that is why I posted the question.  Thank you for your help.
Reply:Welds are measured by lbs of weld metal per foot of weld. Call Lincoln they will do a guaranteed cost reduction of your plants with a total review of weld design,application and proper consumables. Also you can hire Ed Craig to provide a unbiased review and save money without sticking to a single supplier.
Reply:Originally Posted by amartin74Well I have never been provided any of this information, I am literally starting this research from scratch for myself.  I am not an engineer I focus entirely on process improvement for my shop and being on 3rd shift I do not have access to anyone with any engineering knowledge while I am at work, this is why I came to this forum to ask about it.  I have been trying to figure this entire thing out on my own with no assistance whatsoever. Thank you Manokai for your help, and, Welder Dave, that was based off of the only formula I could find for solid mig weld wire, it seemed extremely low to me but that is why I posted the question.  Thank you for your help.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveSaying you have no access to an engineer is nonsense - third shift generally ends when day shift starts - do they lock you out when the engineers come to work?Email stop working at daybreak?Leave a note with questions?
Reply:Originally Posted by amartin74It's not nonsense, our engineers do not work a set schedule, most of them come in at 6:30a.m (the end of my shift) -7:00am  and are gone by no later than 3:00pm.  I also work for one of the largest car parts manufacturers on the globe, meaning that for each business unit we are lucky to have 2 engineers however mine only has one.  He is currently in charge of over 15 separate weld cells that make more than 50 individual components and a combined 1,500 parts per day, including 4 new launches that are currently being tested and consume almost all of his time requiring him to work 12-16 hour days almost every day.  He does not typically have time to respond to my email's so the only way I can get ahold of him is if I can track him down in the shop in person.  Our shop is well over 17,000,000 square feet making that virtually impossible if he is on the floor.  So please leave your rude comments to yourself, if you do not want to assist me then don't, however, please do not use my thread as an outlet for your self-aggrandizing  bilittlement.Thank you. Alex Martin
Reply:I do not like the implication that I am not attempting to work these things out myself, this is a project I have been working on any time I have a chance for over 3 weeks  and is extremely complicated compared to the training (none) I have received in regards to these issues.
Reply:I wouldn't get on Dave's case. He wasn't belittling you. You just chose to think that. What you're asking is exactly what the engineers should be doing, maybe they have already? Talking about how big the shop is and how few engineers there are and they aren't there all the time, etc., etc. and all that other stuff makes no difference. What is the reason you are trying to figure this out on your own? Are you trying to save the company money or improve production or what? You might also consider the engineers might be peeved if you go behind their back trying to do a better job that they have. What is your job title anyway?Also from what I've heard and read, Ed Craig has a lot of knowledge but is far from unbiased.
Reply:I am a Group Tech Leader, my title is likely to change soon due to a recent shift in my role's responsibility.  My job is to be ground floor process improvement (as stated a few times within this post), I am here to assist the engineers in data collection and waste elimination so that they can focus on the multitude of other tasks that they need to focus on.  That means everything from 5S to Kaizen.  Also, that does make a difference because his point was that I have access to engineers, all of those factors together make it nearly impossible for me to get in contact with the only engineer that works with my area.  This process improvement will both save the company money by lowering the amount of weld wire consumed on a yearly basis (~$5,000) as well as increase the production of the specific cell I'm currently working with by almost $200,000 a year.  In the end I figured out how to do all of this myself, none of the information I was provided was useful for my purposes.  I appreciate anyone who actually attempted to assist me and your efforts.  But now the situation is taken care of. Thank you.
Reply:"My job is to be ground floor process improvement (as stated a few times within this post)"You have said you're working on this but this is the first time you've actually said what your job is. Talking to Lincoln, Hobart, Miller, Esab and other filler metal and machine manufacturers  would be the best bet to try and lower costs and improve production.