Patina suggestions

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I've been commissioned to build some planters out of 1/8" plate. The client wants a weathered look(rusty), but they don't want the concrete, where the planters will reside, to get rust stains. They don't want any additional pads under the containers to protect the patio, either.Suggestions please!Thanks-Chris
Reply:there are some paints that look lie rustDynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:If you have a blaster blast them heat them up a little spray salt water on them and clear coat .......but it sounds like they are just trying to be difficult I want my players rusty......but I don't want them "too" rusty smh
Reply:Rust and clear coat or paint that looks like rust...  Sealing the concrete might help a bit."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:There is a powdercoat that looks like rust. If it's not in the budget for powdercoat then I would go with Gilder's Paste and spray with clear polyurethane. You can get a great rusty, aged look with the Gilder's Paste and it's cheap.
Reply:I would go with stainless and paint.
Reply:I use "Henry 107" on bare metal that I stick into the dirt when making lanterns, metal and wood fence posts, flower pots etc....   It's an asphalt waterproof barrier that lasts longer than I will.  I believe that's it's illegal in areas such as southern California and Massachusetts.   If you can't get that in your area, Henry brand has other water proof stuff too.   Just go to their website.  Home depot sells many of the "Henry"  stuff in the roofing section of the store.  It comes in 1 and 5 gallon buckets.  It plain works.  It goes  on thick like pancake syrup and dries within a few hours.  I use a paint brush and turns into like a soft pliable asphalt and hard rubber combined mix.  It's great.  It's about $50.00 per gallon, but a little coating goes a long way.  It's originally designed for roofing, but their "107" formula is a coating for on top of or below a concrete foundation (before the fresh concrete is poured) to keep water out.  It works great on metal, like the bottom side of planters or metal furniture bottoms that sit on top of concrete, to prevent rust stains. Attached ImagesLast edited by SuperArc; 03-09-2013 at 11:20 PM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Well, if you look at my site, you'll see I do a LOT of rust patina. First step: laugh at the client...... One of those cake and eat it too clients, love them!Based on my personal experience:Heat and salt: Nope. Salt seems to always leave a a bit behind/ baked on and it leeches through the finish = PO'd client. Heat and vinegar are better. Warm the piece, apply the vinegar, let dry an hour, repeat if you want. Warm it up hose down with water. Let dry. Repeat to darken. Would advise against getting the rust too heavy as the clear will tend to flake off. it's a real balancing act. The golden rust color on some of the pieces on my site are either coated in clear Tremclad( Rustoleum) or clear Powder Coated. Yes, clear PC over rust. I think, judging from the powder rep I'm the first in the world to do it. Whooptie-do!Muriatic Acid also works. No pre heat. Just wipe on, let it sit no more than a half hour, hose off REALLY well (I also like to fill a bucket with water and mix in baking soda and splash/wipe it down to help neutralize the acid). Let it dry and see how you like it. If more rust needed, hose it off and dry it with the roofers torch or O/A, or what ever you have. If you get a fine layer of "rust dust" on the surface, you can gently wipe it down with a soft dry cloth. Look for and remove lint after. The powder coat rust I've done. Doesn't really look like rust but it depends what your client likes. Locals may have a sample you can show your client. It's pretty homogeneous looking. Faux painting is good if you can do a good job of it. Bad faux looks like dog ****. Do some trials and show them to the client. Metal on concrete mean eventually they'll be 'rings'. If they don't want a trivet a bead of silicone can work. Apply and let dry. But it's tough to get even. If they don't want to "see" anything at the bottom, run your sides a 1/4" proud of the base. Either glue on rubber feet (hole saw and hockey pucks, anyone?!?!) that keep the whole thing a 1/4" of the ground. Or 3 or 5 holes in the bottom with 3/8-1/2" nuts welded on. Run SS carriage bolts as adjustable feet. This will reduce the likelihood of "patina" rings or at least make them further off in the future.  Blasting the piece first will make the "patina" pattern pretty flat. Most of my clients get all hot to trot about the way mine are "blotchy" and mottled. Here are some examples of Faux painted rust, gold rust w/ clear PC, and the "rust" powder coat:http://www.wingnutdesigns.com/gallery/Duckies.htmlhttp://www.wingnutdesigns.com/gallery/LgTableKelp3.htmlhttp://www.wingnutdesigns.com/gallery/SmSpider.htmlThis is heavy rusted with Muriatic. Way to long with the acid, not bake soda, not enough rinsing, no torch warm up. Note the pebbly texture. This was a phuking nightmare to get sealed and I ended tossing it in disgust that and the shape sucked too; this was an early iteration of my kelp pieces:http://www.wingnutdesigns.com/galler...dalSalmon.html Other than that, the reality is you can double hot dip galvanize and double powder coat anything mild steel and it WILL get rust spots at some point. That's all I can think of at the moment. Shoot me a PM if you need more info. Hope this helps.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Interesting looking stuff. I was thinking maybe bed liner too, for the inside of the planter to water proof it. My hesitation and not mentioning roll on "rubber" products was any nasty chemicals in any product like this leeching into the planter soil and killing the plant. But, I have not ever used/tried it.  Originally Posted by SuperArcI use "Henry 107" on bare metal that I stick into the dirt when making lanterns, metal and wood fence posts, flower pots etc....   It's an asphalt waterproof barrier that lasts longer than I will.  I believe that's it's illegal in areas such as southern California and Massachusetts.   If you can't get that in your area, Henry brand has other water proof stuff too.   Just go to their website.  Home depot sells many of the "Henry"  stuff in the roofing section of the store.  It comes in 1 and 5 gallon buckets.  It plain works.  It goes  on thick like pancake syrup and dries within a few hours.  I use a paint brush and turns into like a soft pliable asphalt and hard rubber combined mix.  It's great.  It's about $50.00 per gallon, but a little coating goes a long way.  It's originally designed for roofing, but their "107" formula is a coating for on top of or below a concrete foundation (before the fresh concrete is poured) to keep water out.  It works great on metal, like the bottom side of planters or metal furniture bottoms that sit on top of concrete, to prevent rust stains.
Reply:Originally Posted by bert the welderInteresting looking stuff. I was thinking maybe bed liner too, for the inside of the planter to water proof it. My hesitation and not mentioning roll on "rubber" products was any nasty chemicals in any product like this leeching into the planter soil and killing the plant. But, I have not ever used/tried it.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcALL of my Henry coated steel that's sunk into moist soil is directly adjacent to vegetation.   No problems at all. Been doing it that way for years.   It doesn't wear of like paint or clear coat either.
Reply:Bike_mechThe flaw in your commission is 'nomenclature', weathered look,without staining the concrete.There are only two-1/2 answers to your clients specifications.S/S, Anodized Aluminum [dyed], and Bronze.Stainless Steel is out because of the 'Weathered Look' spec..Anodized and dyed Alum. at his scaled costs more than bronze.So you are left with Bronze.Hold your ground when telling them, that what they want, cost five times what they used to paying.     [Bronze vs Mild-Steel cost].Noble/Metals develop a patina, and hold.Steel rusts, and stains flow.Just as there is no substitute for the look of Gold - There are no productsthat will make carbon-steel behave as the other two and a half.Save yourself: time, money and reputation; by going the expensive routefirst.OpusP.S   Bookmark all the recommendations and data from this thread.  The posts are loaded with tech-tips and resources for conventional iron preservation.
Reply:am trying this product for my sculptures..hope this can help...http://www.modernmasters.com/product...category&bid=8[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyDH2hhixF0[/ame]
Reply:Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm going to try and weather the piece and then spray polyurethane over it. I convinced the client that I can't guarantee how the finish will hold and that it may still drip some rust coloring. We have come up with an easy compromise and the planters will be located in a gravel area instead of directly on concrete. After they had a few days to think about it, they were more readily open to alternative locations.Thanks again-Chris
Reply:How about the steel planter, all rusty, with a nice stainless saucer built into the bottom to catch and hold the water and rust?
Reply:Opus, you can add Monel to your list. I've seen some  Monel work that had a beautiful patina that looks like weathered bronze. Cost... well beyond "expensive" and well into "Oh my God!" comes to mind...Someone mentioned concrete sealer. In my years of doing stamped concrete we used to get a bunch of calls from customers who had rust stains on the concrete patios we had poured. As long as the patios were sealed well and maintained ( sealer will break down due to UV and time) the rust spots would easily come off with something like CLR. If the rust of into the crete itself, chances were you wouldn't be able to do all that much however..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:>Collecting a few concepts for plasma cutting art in mild steel and interested in learning more about patina, verdigris, etc.  Have not extensively researched the topics to date.  However, checking to see if anyone knows "the basics" of obtaining the look shown in the images below.The flame art, located in a local church, appears to be 1/8" HRS cut via O/A and plasma.  The finish gives off these wicked blue-green-copper-yellow tones in incandescent light. A few streaks even appear that a Cu-based grinding wheel ablated onto the surface.  Probably not the case.  Thinking heat and chemicals supplied the magic.Comments, suggestions on finish protocols?  Mahalo Attached ImagesLast edited by ManoKai; 08-08-2013 at 10:29 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:speaking from experience, you can never get a rusty piece of carbon steel to hold outside, i dont care what you coat it with if its sitting on top of concrete it will start to break down onto the concrete, i do it alot with furniture pieces indoors and it seems to be fine, but for outside use your client needs to know up front that it takes time to maintain a rust patina outside. i have used alot of different methods to blackening and rusting steel and as said previous its a balancing act, you are accelerating the deterioration process than essentially trying to hit the pause button and in the end thats all your doing is momentarily slowing it down, then it starts again!!! at least that is my experience in  new england , even clear PC starts to break down under the clear than it flakes off. save yourself aggravation and tell your client the truth about maintenance or learn the hard way , god knows i have, now when i meet a client and they seem like a pain in the *** i make sure to make it clear what they are in for or i skip the job all together. bronze is some awesome stuff to do this with just makes a $500 a 1500 project
Reply:I am always pretty clear about all my work to the clients. If I know something will happen I will tell them, if they are telling me their ideas and I see a flaw I let them know. Many times they don't care and take the item as it is and if it (rusts away) after so many years they know about it and expect it. Many times they will just come back for another one after the first rotted away.
Reply:ManoKai,Looks to me like they just did some spot heating to bring out the "temper" colors."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:@ Oldendum - Got'cha.  Heat, coupled with random grinder marks, to draw out the colors.  Thanks!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:this worked good for me. there are 12 different kinds including a natural rust. Attached Images
Reply:http://www.sculptnouveau.com/             Every type of metal patinasolutions you will ever need are here . Including one for stainless ..everything is temporary
Reply:Powder coat.  I did a pool fence earlier this year.  Color was great.  Powder coater said it took 2 times the powder to cover.  He had never used it and was surprised at how much was required to get coverage.  Also, it is a specialty color and cost more. Worth it since, it will hold up exterior, though.Years ago I did my own faux rust with my own paint combo.  Came out beautiful.  I prefer  paint over powdercoat, just not always cost effective.
Reply:If someone has not posted this yet....this is a link for chemicals that will create various patinas on metals. An EBook on the subject is also available. My son has started using these on metal art and signs with excellent results. Rust, copper plate, pewter and many others are possible.Link:   http://www.steelfxpatinas.com/Jim Colt   Hypertherm@ Jim Colt - reviewed all of Bill Worden's DIY videos and checked out the product selections.  Amazing work.  The preparatory work and application process seems straightforward.  Done correctly and with a final laydown of the recommended clear-coating, the Steel-F/X results should be oxidation-resistant for an outdoor environment.  Thanks for the insight!Last edited by ManoKai; 09-24-2013 at 07:10 AM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:www.brynmorgen.com/resources.html  ==> 'Patinas'&http://www1.appstate.edu/~curtincm/s...ipe/patina.pdf  ==> Now, to determine who marked the "No" and "Yes" entries per recipe and why.  Experimentally tested/proven?  We'll see....."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi