Owner Cylinder Question

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If you own a 330 bottle of 75/25, what happens when you need a refill?Do they swap with a no name on neck bottle, or do they refill yours?
Reply:In my area, the praxiar only allows owner bottles to 125CF.  Any bigger and it's a rental.  Can't say much about any other LWS or place.  Each area is different.  Call a couple of LWS in your area and see how they do businesss.  It's really the only way to get the answer unless someone chimes in from your area.Syncrowave 210HH140Victor O/A
Reply:It depends on your LWS. You need to call around, explain your question and see what they say. If you call 5 places you will get 5 different answers. Then do business with the one that seems best.I have a couple of owned 330 bottles. I just exchange and pay for the fill. I usually get bottles back with their name on the ring. If you have a good LWS, that's not a problem since you will be back to them later. If you expect to jump around to different dealers, then you will have a problem. No name 330's seem to be rare, but I have one in my shop now. You can always ask if they have a no name bottle available since they don't seem to mind which one you get.Like most things, if you do all your business with them, even if you are a hobby welder, they will get to know you and try to help you as much as they can. Setting up an account with them is always a good idea.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Yes, you need to call.  No one can guarantee what your LWS will do/say. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:If you call 5 places you will get 5 different answers. Then do business with the one that seems best.  That seems to be real common regardless of question,even amomgest different branches of the large outfits. Most corps in other trades have standard policies.  I find it easier dealing with mom and pop eventhough they might have to send an odd size refill out.  No prob if you have a spare or a portable tank to use in the interm.
Reply:Agree with all of the above and would add when calling get the persons NAME that you talked to. Some guys can be a dick head and think they own the place. I have a Ma and Pa supplier that I go to now. It is a longer drive but well worth.
Reply:This is the reason I asked.Right now I have a 125 and thought about getting a 330 filled for $150.http://houston.craigslist.org/for/5009981934.htmlLast edited by In Utopia; 05-20-2015 at 02:34 PM.
Reply:no name, no problem....4 inch grinder makes no name in a few minutes and a little paint....Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbno name, no problem....4 inch grinder makes no name in a few minutes and a little paint....
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbno name, no problem....4 inch grinder makes no name in a few minutes and a little paint....
Reply:if you grind it smooth it wont look like it was ground on.....you cant just gouge out the name, make it look nice....I took a cylinder to an airgas  with a name on it and they wouldnt fill it, so I ground off the name and painted it and the next day they took it no problem...if there any stickers on it , just scrape em off with a razor blade....Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:I don't think we're all on the same page.On the neck of the bottle, isn't the vendors name stamped or "cast" on the neck just below the valve?If it is, then it's rental, if not than it's owned.Is this not correct?If so how does one keep up with either that bottle or another without a vendors name on it?Or is it the same as the smaller bottles. I own my own 125, however when I swap it it could have any vendors name on it. Big thing is I don't get a bill calling that bottle a rental. Work the same with the big ones?
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbif you grind it smooth it wont look like it was ground on.....you cant just gouge out the name, make it look nice....I took a cylinder to an airgas  with a name on it and they wouldnt fill it, so I ground off the name and painted it and the next day they took it no problem...if there any stickers on it , just scrape em off with a razor blade....
Reply:In my area the customer-owned argon and argon-CO2 are usually 160 cu, ft. I own two of them and exchange one when I run out. They were mared "Customer Owned" when I first bought them. That said, when I used to exchange at Airgas, sometimes I would get back a 160 cylinder with the Airgas name on it. They didn't seem to care. I now go to a smaller LWS with great prices and they don't seem to care, either. They also refill customer owned 330's so who knows. If a person should buy a used cylinder on Craigslist, make sure to check the hydro date. If out of hydro, LWS's will have to charge extra to re-test them. It's usually $20 or so. Also, look for cylinders that have a * on them. They are good for ten years between hydro tests. The place where I exchange lets me pick whatever tank I want.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Yea,check all that plus look for evidence of illeagal grinding on the neck.
Reply:I just realized that you are near me. Take it to United on Sens Rd and they will fill your bottle for you. Probably only cost about $35.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by JaxYea,check all that plus look for evidence of illeagal grinding on the neck.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109Grinding on the neck is not only a fraud it is dangerous. They are not to be modified.
Reply:Neck rings can be removed if you want but regardless of anything else before I bought cylinders off of someone, I would want proof that person actually owned them so I if I ever had any problems getting them filled, I could at least go to the same place he got them filled. It seems very suspicious when someone has a quite a few cylinders to sell. A few years ago when I worked at Air Liquide someone called up and said they had an abandoned sea can of cylinders both full and empties and asked if we were interested in buying them back. They were Air Liquide exclusive Altop cylinders with a built in regulator that were never available for sale. I passed the call to someone more senior and they said they weren't interested in them. Had it been my say, I'd say sure bring them in and we'll have a look. Make sure the cops are there to arrest the guy when he comes in and get your cylinders back to the customer who was leasing them. Nobody abandons a sea can full of about 25 cylinders.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawYeah,   none of us would ever do that.   It's not fraud if you own the cylinder. It's jacked up greedy corporate policies.    And how is it dangerous if you use little not-so-common sense?  Excluding flammable gasses of course.  Now forging inspection stamps or something is another thing all together
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109When a person modifies a tank to remove the original identification, it's a misrepresentation. That's not something that in which I would ever involve myself. What if the tank later explodes after being worked on? The liability is limitless. Where is the common sense?
Reply:As far as I understand it after discussing it with a local LWS, owner cylinders shouldn't be marked. If I took in a cylinder to be refilled and received a marked cylinder, I'd demand an unmarked cylinder. You never know with some of the unscrupulous practices that sometimes take place with certain vendors. Say you get  a marked cylinder for an owner cylinder, and don't trade it in for a while. You come back, and a new employee refuses to believe it's an owner. Or the place goes out of business, and some other vendors refuse to take it. That same LWS told me a similar story about a guy who tried to sell back a stolen cylinder as if it were an owner cylinder. They identified that it was a stolen rental from the neck marking, confiscated it and the guy bailed when they threatened to call the police.
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelI just realized that you are near me. Take it to United on Sens Rd and they will fill your bottle for you. Probably only cost about $35.
Reply:Originally Posted by JieveAs far as I understand it after discussing it with a local LWS, owner cylinders shouldn't be marked. If I took in a cylinder to be refilled and received a marked cylinder, I'd demand an unmarked cylinder. You never know with some of the unscrupulous practices that sometimes take place with certain vendors. Say you get  a marked cylinder for an owner cylinder, and don't trade it in for a while. You come back, and a new employee refuses to believe it's an owner. Or the place goes out of business, and some other vendors refuse to take it. That same LWS told me a similar story about a guy who tried to sell back a stolen cylinder as if it were an owner cylinder. They identified that it was a stolen rental from the neck marking, confiscated it and the guy bailed when they threatened to call the police.
Reply:Really, the serial number of the cylinder, and accompanying bills of sale are what is needed to prove ownership of a cylinder.  Refill policies, are of course, dependent on the vendorExperience is something you get right after you need itOriginally Posted by gnm109Grinding on the neck is not only a fraud it is dangerous. They are not to be modified.
Reply:Originally Posted by In UtopiaThe tanks are in Pearland. My son just bought one filled for $150. I haven't seen it.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fred sReally, the serial number of the cylinder, and accompanying bills of sale are what is needed to prove ownership of a cylinder.  Refill policies, are of course, dependent on the vendor
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelI've heard good things about Big Tex on Long Drive too. Still family owned.
Reply:After attending a few classroom instructions on sky-diving,the man went up for his first jump. The instructor who explained rip cords was a well endowed lady who wore little sister's outfit that day.  The old boy realized after leaping from the plane he had no clue how to open his chute.  As he plummeted toward earth he saw another man rocketing from earth skyward. As they passed mid-air he yelled "do you know how to open a parachute"?   Nooo came the reply,do you know how to grind identifying marks off a gas cylinder?
Reply:That's funny..... LMAO
Reply:thats an old one, but it was do you know anything about gas bbqs........but to give an example of working with natural gas in a pressured pipe, the gas company will weld on a live steel gas line in the street to weld on a coupling to make a new tap to run gas to the house, as long as you dont burn through it was safe todo....so grinding on empty tanks, usually on inert gas doesnt pose much of a risk....and its once in a while....Last edited by roadkillbobb; 05-22-2015 at 08:34 AM.Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:I've exchanged a lot of cylinders with 4 different LWS. They do get picky about neck rings on the larger cylinders, but not one has ever recorded or checked a serial number. They may not accept one with another LWS name on it. In that case I go the other LWS, see if they have one without a neck ring. In my area there is a guy that sells gas and has everyone's bottles. I can exchange mine for one of his with the neck ring I want and since he deals with all of them it is no problem for him. He is higher priced for the gas.That said, I do not think it would be possible for them to identify a particular bottle as rented, customer owned, stolen, or trace who changed the neck ring a year later. If someone rents or leases a bottle, they are the one responsible for returning or paying for it. If I buy it from them, they are the only person the LWS can prosecute as they signed the contract and they did not return the bottle.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:A lot of places are starting to do cylinder tracking to keep track of cylinders. It will never be 100% accurate though with the millions of cylinders out there. LWS' may be able to confiscate a stolen cylinders though. I've heard of this but never actually witnessed it. I think if someone has cylinders for sale, they should have no problem going with you to the LWS where they get them filled. If they are legit, it shouldn't be a problem. If they start making excuses, I'd see it as a big red flag.
Reply:Originally Posted by wb4rtIf someone rents or leases a bottle, they are the one responsible for returning or paying for it. If I buy it from them, they are the only person the LWS can prosecute as they signed the contract and they did not return the bottle.
Reply:Again, the places I've done exchanges with have never written down a serial number and they exchange bottles with shops all over the area. So how would they look at the bottle I bring in and decide it is stolen? I just don't think they want to spend the time and money to track their bottles by serial number.I'm not arguing, and if they confiscate my bottles that I bought or was given, I guess that is my loss. I really think they would rather sell gas than lose my business by trying to police the bottles. What they have told me is they just cannot have another LWS's bottles in their stock, so as long as it is one of theirs, they don't care. And they have never charged me for a hydro test. I guess I'm fortunate to have some good guys in my area!Last edited by wb4rt; 05-26-2015 at 12:45 PM.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Originally Posted by GarThen there's that sticky little problem about receiving stolen property.  You might not be charged, but you will forfeit the stolen property.  The way it was explained to me was, "The guy who sold it to you did not own it, therefore you took possession of something that belonged to someone else without paying THEM for it."  It would be the same thing as me loaning you my BBQ (or whatever), and you turn around and sell it.  The minute you sold it, you permanently deprived me of "my" property, thus making you a thief, and the person who received it a possessor of stolen property.  If the state can build a case and reasonably show that the person you sold it to knew it was stolen, or should have reasonably known it was stolen (ie: person buys a $20,000 used welder for $1500), then they and you risk being charged.Gar
Reply:Welding supplies are starting to track cylinders. That's their bread and butter!!!
Reply:Wow I feel so lucky to find this thread !As I've just explained in the "introduce yourself" section, i'm a student working on the issue of welding gas cylinders (because this always pissed off my dad haha)!what you're talking a bout helps me a lot but if you could just take 5 minutes to answer this short survey i'd be so happy ! https://surveyplanet.com/5565c18e3a1899063cb70d26Thank you guys
Reply:Originally Posted by JimFromTXWow I feel so lucky to find this thread !As I've just explained in the "introduce yourself" section, i'm a student working on the issue of welding gas cylinders (because this always pissed off my dad haha)!what you're talking a bout helps me a lot but if you could just take 5 minutes to answer this short survey i'd be so happy ! https://surveyplanet.com/5565c18e3a1899063cb70d26Thank you guys
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109You're kidding, right?  I never click on unknown links. Especially fro those who are new on a site. You may open it and print the entire survey but links are a no-no at least for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by JimFromTXOh I'm sorry, I was not aware this could be a problem, really... Actually I'm not kidding, Survey Planet is a safe & well known survey platform used by other students, you can check on Google, it's like surveymonkey or google form !Too bad, I'll try to find an alternative...
Reply:Wow !That was explained when I introduced myself, I study entrepreneurship, and I have to present a project and design a product or a service that solves a problem in any field. The problem I thought of is not cylinders as objects but the process of getting gas: my dad always complains about prices not being transparent or rental. I just want to know thanks to this survey of he is The only one or not, and think about how problems can be solved...I really did not think it would be that shocking
Reply:Originally Posted by JimFromTXWow !That was explained when I introduced myself, I study entrepreneurship, and I have to present a project and design a product or a service that solves a problem in any field. The problem I thought of is not cylinders as objects but the process of getting gas: my dad always complains about prices not being transparent or rental. I just want to know thanks to this survey of he is The only one or not, and think about how problems can be solved...I really did not think it would be that shocking
Reply:Originally Posted by JimFromTXOh I'm sorry, I was not aware this could be a problem, really... Actually I'm not kidding, Survey Planet is a safe & well known survey platform used by other students, you can check on Google, it's like surveymonkey or google form !Too bad, I'll try to find an alternative...
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1If you would like to present a survey, do it through the WELDINGWEB . I know the mods would considerate it. That is the safest.
Reply:Other than the "hijacked-ness" of the most recent posts on this thread, I'm sorry if i'm reviving an old thread... I've been searching around trying to figure out if there is any way I can identify a cylinder as either customer owned or rental. Can you guys help me out? judging from what I've read around the web, it seems that the cylinder could be either if you are trying to judge the neck ring, and I have not found a way to look up the serial number. I just bought a cylinder from a guy, and am trying to find out (hoping its not stolen). I paid a fair price for it, seemed pretty good for the size, but I don't think it was "black market cheap," if you know what I mean. I guess I'm mostly worried about getting into some kind of trouble when I go to get it refilled and/or hydro tested... Thank you guys!
Reply:Originally Posted by Dan HuygensOther than the "hijacked-ness" of the most recent posts on this thread, I'm sorry if i'm reviving an old thread... I've been searching around trying to figure out if there is any way I can identify a cylinder as either customer owned or rental. Can you guys help me out? judging from what I've read around the web, it seems that the cylinder could be either if you are trying to judge the neck ring, and I have not found a way to look up the serial number. I just bought a cylinder from a guy, and am trying to find out (hoping its not stolen). I paid a fair price for it, seemed pretty good for the size, but I don't think it was "black market cheap," if you know what I mean. I guess I'm mostly worried about getting into some kind of trouble when I go to get it refilled and/or hydro tested... Thank you guys!
Reply:Yes as stated above ^^^. A couple of my owner tanks have a plain no name on neck ring. Others have a name on them but varies. As I exchanged the name on neck ring tanks sometimes I receive their name on tanks. The only real identification is the color on the tanks that the supplier may use. Some have blue for 75 / 25 while the other has orange/ silver , it depends. Check with different suppliers, they each have their own policies.
Reply:okay, thanks guys!! I'll take it in this week to see what they make of it. Thanks again!