Hay trailer redesign.

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This one has been long term around here. It took me a while to figure out how to fix it and there's been way to many interruptions while trying to fix it.   It's hard to see but if you look closely at the first pic there's some pretty bad problems here. This was the good side that I left assembled while trying to figure out how to fix the bad side. That's the second cylinder in a year on that side. Not only is the rod bent but the clevis is worn out. When we took that side apart the other day I also found that the rod was no longer attached to the piston since it slid out of the cylinder. The manufacturer expected to much from the small clevis. There's just to much pressure on that area with the small lever they've got holding the wheel up. Also they used tapered roller bearings about 3" apart inside the pivot assembly. Not to much pressure there as well. The other side had the threads stripped out of the shaft holding the bearings. Overall just a poor design. My problem was how to fix it without completely starting from scratch.    Here you see the other side after I got done with it. I've increased the leverage on both the pivot and the cylinder. Used a cylinder with twice as much stroke and increased the leverage of the cylinder from about 5" to around 20". About 1/4 the pressure on the pins and cylinder when traveling down the road. I also used heavier duty cylinders with ends that can be greased. For the pivot I spread the leverage out from 3" to about 16". It's got a 2" pin with 4" long bronze bushings at each end of the pipe that's welded to the axle.  More in the next post.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:In this side view you can see how I supported the end of the 2" pivot pin. I also made it so you can adjust the toe in. Apparently they've gone through a LOT of tires in the last year with the old setup. Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Got any pictures of the whole thing? Only dedicated bale movers we have here are small squares.
Reply:I'll see about getting some. I'm still working on it.  This one is for round bales. It'll haul 5 bales which is a heck of a load on two tires.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitI'll see about getting some. I'm still working on it.  This one is for round bales. It'll haul 5 bales which is a heck of a load on two tires.
Reply:Yes they're inline. This one's different from most in that it lowers to the ground and you back it up under them. Then raise it to haul.   I had a similar idea years ago but never had the time or money to build one to try. I was going to use tandems and have the raise mechanism work in a different manner.   Here's more info on them. Good idea but needs a little tweaking. http://gobobpipe.com/2ez-hay-bale-mo...ng-machine.htmMillermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Are you certain the 2 butt welds on the 45deg. piece are going to be enough? There is going to be a buttload of down pressure on that tube when that thing is loaded and bouncing across the fields. The rest looks well done. Awesome work!!Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I did what I could in that area. That's 2" x 1/4" wall tubing. I beveled and full penetration welded the joints. I agree that it's a high stress area and I've been toying with the idea of putting a fish plate along the back but I want to keep the area smooth since hay may rub there when loading and unloading. I've also been considering what I could do on the outside edge of the 1/4" plate to help that area. I needed to get it assembled to check clearances and if it operated the way I wanted. It's been hard for me to get this to the point where I'm completely satisfied with the result. Lots of odd angles, clearance issues, and not enough room to do what I'd really like to do.Last edited by irish fixit; 04-03-2014 at 10:27 PM.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:thats prety slick and a nice repair. what does a round bale weigh anyway?Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:BEEFY! nice work. DAS,if I recall round bails are either 1000, or 2000 lbs.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Nice work!!! GoBob makes some great hay equipment. I've got two Red Rhino 40' in line bale trailer, each of my bales average 1,800 - 2,100 lbs. I've considered the 2EZ, but if they would come out with a gooseneck version and a self-contained hydraulic system, I would buy two!!! The hydraulic system could be similar to their HydraSled dove tail goosenecks. Until then, I'll keep loading them. Proverbs 4:23My company welds.
Reply:Looks like you have improved on the original design. Perhaps it would benefit from some type of automatic or powered transport lock so the cylinders didn't carry the weight all the time. I know a lot of ag equipment is designed to carry the weight with the cylinders extended but I personally prefer, if I can, to have the cylinder pull the wheels down rather than push them down so that the cylinder is in instead of out at max load.---Meltedmetal
Reply:very ingenious repair fixit.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by dumb as a stumpthats prety slick and a nice repair. what does a round bale weigh anyway?
Reply:One more pic.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitOne more pic.
Reply:I can see retrofitting a lock would be a sizable job. Perhaps in the original design they could have arranged to pull the wheel axle past center against a stop/rest for transport so that the weight rested against the stop to carry the weight for transport. What you have there looks good and with the heavier cylinder should work better than the original for a long, long time.---Meltedmetal :thumbsup
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjWell done. I like it. You do great work.Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk
Reply:Nice work on repairing that hay trailer. I like your redesign of it. Looks like it'll work much better. Chad
Reply:Thanks.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Wayne,Question about the pins and bushings used in your upgrade?  The forces in these joints are significant, I am curious about how you sized the pivots.On the hydraulic cylinder pivots, what material did you use for the pins?  How tight is the clearance between pivot sleeve and the pin?On the wheel pivot with the bronze bushings, what material did you use on the sleeve, mechanical tube?  Size?  Pin Material?  Size?  Catalog Bronze Bushing?  How tight are the clearances between the pin and the bronze bushings? How is this pin/bushing joint greased?The quality of your "field engineering upgrades/repairs" highlights your ingenuity and experience.  Thanks for sharing with us.  It seems that I learn something new every time I see one of your threads.Regards
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Reply:Beautiful fabrication irish.Awesome.~JohnJust a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Better than factory. On the original design did it cam over against a hard stop or was the cylinder all that retained it while it was bumping along across the field and down the highway? I think your design overcame most of those concerns with the cylinder relocation.Truthfully the design has me at a loss. Ground level trailers for moving rollers and forklifts use a sliding mechanism similar to the photo below.
Reply:Ought to be a law against combining hydraulics with moronsThe original design puts the cylinder in a bind when the eyes, and bushings, wear to the point of ruining the original geometry. I like your idea, and how it works.It's still gonna fall apart though  NOT BECAUSE OF YOUR REDESIGN.It's fatally flawed with the offset wheel design.  Too much side bending stress on the single strut that holds the wheel. Side stress will tend to ruin the bushings, and it'll all work loose again. Should have been made with forks instead of the single strut.  Forks would even the stress out.  Maybe it's a width limit thing, dunno.  Should be able to do it all within a 102" o.a. width.The cylinder will pound itself to death with either configuration (yours and theirs).  Lot of hammering on the rod when moving down the road.IT's a typical GoBob contraption.  Doooood is probably the king of crooksI love the "inspiration" story in the video  Typical.  (We had a lady school bus driver run a stop sign on a two lane highway, hit a farmer and his daughter hauling cattle in a gooseneck, and kill them both.  One of a couple of accidents the bus driver was responsible for in a short period.  Local news reported that the people in the area felt that she shouldn't be prosecuted because she was a regular church attending "good Christian"  I believe she got off of the charges)  You can kill somebody around here, as long as you belong to the right churchLove to see how the thing works with bales that have been sitting for a few months.  You know the kind.  All egg shaped, wet as a lake on the bottom, and the net wrap disintegrated.  BTW....... I hate net wrap.  IT SUCKS.Anyways, your work looks nice."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/Originally Posted by AMillerUserWayne,Question about the pins and bushings used in your upgrade?  The forces in these joints are significant, I am curious about how you sized the pivots.On the hydraulic cylinder pivots, what material did you use for the pins?  How tight is the clearance between pivot sleeve and the pin?On the wheel pivot with the bronze bushings, what material did you use on the sleeve, mechanical tube?  Size?  Pin Material?  Size?  Catalog Bronze Bushing?  How tight are the clearances between the pin and the bronze bushings? How is this pin/bushing joint greased?The quality of your "field engineering upgrades/repairs" highlights your ingenuity and experience.  Thanks for sharing with us.  It seems that I learn something new every time I see one of your threads.Regards
Reply:Wayne,Thanks for the informative response.  You may want to double check the pin/bushing surface area math.  Lateral surface area of a cylinder = Circumference x Length.  I think the surface area of the pin/bushing contact area = 3.14 x 2" Pin Diameter x 4" Bushing Length x 2 Bushings = approximately 50 square inches of contact. Regards
Reply:You're Welcome. You can't use all the surface area for the calculation. There's a proper way to figure it but I just use 1/3 which will be close the contact area of the bushing on the shaft. I was also only figuring one bushing since each has it's own job to do. The outside one will take the vast majority of the pressure while the inside on mainly is to stabilize it.   My figures come out like this.  2" diameter pin has 6.2832" sq inches / inch surface area. 1/3 of that is 2.0944 sq inches times 4 is 8.3776 sq inches contact area.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Wayne,Thanks for the clarification/education.  If I thought about it longer, I would have realized the load path is through the surface area on the upper side of the pin.  If you project the pin onto a flat plane, you get a rectangle formed by the diameter of the pin and the length of the sleeve bearing, i.e. 2" by 4" or 8 sq. in.  I guess another way of looking at it is that the load bearing surface can be approximated by about 120 degrees of the upper pin circumference.  120/360 x 3.1416 x diameter x sleeve bearing length = 8.37 sq. in. in this case.  When you start thinking about the load contact surface of the bushing on the pin, the id sleeve/od pin difference, and the math involved, my head starts spinning.  I like your 1/3 assumption as close enough.  I ain't a mechanical engineer and my knowledge of contact mechanics is limited.  Your fab and field engineering skills are awesome, thanks again for sharing.Regards
Reply:Wayne,If your were starting from scratch and intended to use a nylatron bushing, what would you do differently?  Would you change the bushing size or thickness?  Where would you source the nylatron bushings from?  Is nylatron more expensive than 932 cast bronze?  Does nylatron require any specialized machining to get to final size?  How well does nylatron hold up under hard field use?  Would you use this type of bushing for a tilting truck or trailer bed pivot?  What would you use for the pin material, 1018?  Regards
Reply:I'd want more surface area any way I can get it. Most likely in a larger diameter though length is a option as well. In fact I just checked and found that nylatron (a trade mark name for MDS filled nylon) is rated Pmax of 2900 psi. So in this case I might of been able to get away with it if I'd made the outer bearing 6" long. The outer definitely has more of the load in this case than the inner.  As stated earlier I was going by instinct and didn't feel there was enough surface area for plastic. After crunching the numbers I could of probably done that and been just fine.  McMaster does sell already machined MDS filled nylon bearings in different sizes. But none this big. I use enough of it that I by from a plastic supplier at a cheaper price and machine my own. It machines well but has a few quirks. Mostly in measuring. You've got to have a real light touch to measure it or it will compress. Also it doesn't break a chip well so you have to know how to handle large long strings of plastic chips safely. Another little gotcha it that's it's very difficult to just take a little bit out of it like I did with the hone. It doesn't respond well to sanding at all. You really need to cut it. Thus it really needs to be machined to the proper clearance before hand.  I used 2 3/8" od bushings on this job. I consider that the minimum thickness that I like to use with plastic. Especially if I'm cutting grease grooves in it.   One good thing about MDS filled nylon is that it's mostly self lubricating. It does help to grease it but the moly impregnated in the plastic makes it less critical. Oh yeah. In this case the real load is on the bottom of the pin. The bushing will be pushing up against the bottom holding the trailer up once I let it back down on the ground.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm