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I recently bought several old SA-200s to restore. My experience in the past has been on the F-163 machines. One of these machines is an older F-162 machine. I contacted tech support at Lincoln and gave them the code and serial numbers from this machine and in turn they instructed me to download several different manuals they have online. The pictures in the manuals show a starter type and position identical to the two other machines which are both F-163 machines. This oldest machine is equipped wit the F-162 engine and it has a different type starter which is located at a higher position, (above the oil pan as opposed to being below the gasket line as it is on the two newer machines). I went through all the manuals in the obsolete manual list on the Lincoln website and I could not find any picturing this particular configuration. I realize the starter on this machine could have been substituted by someone with a starter that was not original equipment. This particular starter is the old Bendix "spin-in" type that has no solenoid. These were used in the older cars and trucks in the very early 50's and prior to that. I did find a couple of manuals for the old F-162 powered SA-200s but they pictured the same set-up as the later F-163s. I would like to hear from anyone out there that works on these old machines and is familiar with this particular starter configuration. Also, this may be a matter to take up with sources more related to the Continental engine as opposed to the welder in general. I am interested to know if anybody has discovered a different starter that will work. I'm thinking that there may be a more modern version of starter, (one with the conventional and now commonly used solenoid), that could be substituted. Given the fact that there are a lot people on these forums that are also gearheads I thought it would be a good idea get some suggestions here.Dave B.E-MAIL: [email protected] PAGES: www.wfmservice.comwww.rides4rides.comwww.pvpmedia.com/53f100.htmDad always said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."I say, We can make it better.
Reply:Dave B. I have several early 50,s and have used early model Crysler Corps. starters with good results. They are six volt. but they work well on twelve.Most times Ihave to use a half inch spacer. Have never found a late model starter that would work on old S-Models
Reply:Originally Posted by james stubblefieldDave B. I have several early 50,s and have used early model Crysler Corps. starters with good results. They are six volt. but they work well on twelve.Most times Ihave to use a half inch spacer. Have never found a late model starter that would work on old S-Models
Reply:Originally Posted by DGB ...I am interested to know if anybody has discovered a different starter that will work. I'm thinking that there may be a more modern version of starter, (one with the conventional and now commonly used solenoid), that could be substituted...
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepNow, would you sell or lend out as a template, the plate between engine and welder head?
Reply:Originally Posted by james stubblefieldDave B. I have several early 50,s and have used early model Crysler Corps. starters with good results. They are six volt. but they work well on twelve.Most times Ihave to use a half inch spacer. Have never found a late model starter that would work on old S-Models
Reply:The pictures of your starter look just like the starter I bought for my 1953 Willys Jeep(f-163). It came from NAPA and was from a company named Wilson. I have the part number somewhere and will try and find it.It is 12v and does come with a solinoid(sp).I'm sure you can tell them that is what you need and they can order it and you can see it before you have to buy it. Can't you just have the old one rebuilt?
Reply:That stater can be rebuilt for ever. No problem with a bendix drive, it will serve you fine. Just take it to napa and if there are Delco #s on it they can get you another one. If the machine is 6 volt you can make it 12 by switching the coil, condensor and voltage regulator for the generator. Worse case you will have to replace the generator with a Delco Alternator. I have done this many times. The starter will take 12 volts all day long. Its wired heavier for 6 volt, so it can take MORE amps than a 12.DavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Good morning, There is a mix-up here somewhere. The 162 is an older engine and in no year did Lincoln use the 'high mount' starter on a machine with the 162. One of your pictures has the high mount starter, which is readily available, and the generator is octagonal which makes the machine a 1973 or newer. The older ( 1972 and back) models used the mount by the pan and the 1107382 number that another member gave you is correct. Now here is where it gets a little tricky. A Lincoln built before 1957 will take the same starter, but you have to adjust the lifting eye assembly. Put up the torch, get a set of vice grips and do just a little bending on the upright metal. Let me know if you need a picture. Done it many times. Had a machine in here a week ago that a butcher got hold of if you get my meaning. A little finesse is needed here and your pride stays intact. weldersales
Reply:I am guessing the oldest machine is on the left by the Ford. If so, it probably has the 162 and looks like about a 1963 model and probably has the starter in the picture at bottom. If so, what you want is the 1107382, fits perfectly, no modifications, and will spin that 162 like gangbusters. weldersales
Reply:Originally Posted by Root PassThe pictures of your starter look just like the starter I bought for my 1953 Willys Jeep(f-163). It came from NAPA and was from a company named Wilson.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldersalesGood morning, There is a mix-up here somewhere. The 162 is an older engine and in no year did Lincoln use the 'high mount' starter on a machine with the 162. One of your pictures has the high mount starter, which is readily available, and the generator is octagonal which makes the machine a 1973 or newer. The older ( 1972 and back) models used the mount by the pan and the 1107382 number that another member gave you is correct. Now here is where it gets a little tricky. A Lincoln built before 1957 will take the same starter, but you have to adjust the lifting eye assembly. Put up the torch, get a set of vice grips and do just a little bending on the upright metal. Let me know if you need a picture. Done it many times. Had a machine in here a week ago that a butcher got hold of if you get my meaning. A little finesse is needed here and your pride stays intact. weldersales
Reply:Originally Posted by weldersalesI am guessing the oldest machine is on the left by the Ford. If so, it probably has the 162 and looks like about a 1963 model and probably has the starter in the picture at bottom. If so, what you want is the 1107382, fits perfectly, no modifications, and will spin that 162 like gangbusters. weldersales
Reply:Originally Posted by David RThat stater can be rebuilt for ever. No problem with a bendix drive, it will serve you fine. Just take it to napa and if there are Delco #s on it they can get you another one. If the machine is 6 volt you can make it 12 by switching the coil, condensor and voltage regulator for the generator. Worse case you will have to replace the generator with a Delco Alternator. I have done this many times. The starter will take 12 volts all day long. Its wired heavier for 6 volt, so it can take MORE amps than a 12.David
Reply:Dave. If you find a old Crysler product starter that will fit. just get it rebuilt and put an old Ford solinoid on it. You do not have to make any changes to run on twelve volts.
Reply:Originally Posted by james stubblefieldDave. If you find a old Crysler product starter that will fit. just get it rebuilt and put an old Ford solinoid on it. You do not have to make any changes to run on twelve volts.
Reply:I have a 1945 short hood machine that use every day for a living.My sarter finaly crapped out the other day. you can buy these starters brand new with seliniod.I do not know wether you are looking for a cheap fix or you just cant get those starters down there. I paid nearly $400 canadian but she starts like a charm. Another solution is just use the crank to start it.I have used mine alot because somtimes in the winter my starter button freezes, it works every time even in minus 25. Let me know if you want the numbers for this starter. It is a wilson by the way. I hope this helps.
Reply:I had the starter on mine rebuilt, it cost $175.00. In my reasearch on the internet, the starter that was on mine was a Delco industrial starter. New was $275.00. Mine has been converted to 12 volt. With gm one wire alt.
Reply:Hello everyone.I had a stroke of bad luck on the 3-10-07.A deer ran out in front of me and I swirved to miss the deer and lost control of my welding truck and it rolled 5 times throwing me and my 1962 rebuilt sa 200 lincoln from the truck.I survived with broken ribs and pinched nerves in my neck but the machine and truck was totaled.All I had was liability insurance on the truck no insurance on the rest.I just rebuilt the engine completely about 2 months ago.It bent the frame and destroyed the radiator and hood and even broke one of the large wires inside the generator.It bent the fan also and destroyed the face and controls.Luckily new engine survived.I have an old sa 200 1953 modle short hood that I took the wore out engine off from and put my new engine on it.I did have to take the short hood flywheel that is smaller which weighs a ton and also the engine bellhousing plate.I took the short hood which everything is in excellent shape and took all the paint on the machine down to bare metal and put a new paint job on it and hopefully will have it welding in a week or two.The 1962 long hood starter on the machine that was destroyed mounts in the low position with a chevy silinoid with no spacer plate but the 1953 its starter is in the low position with a ford type silinoid with a plate between the starter and bellhousing plate.I was told that I can use my starter with the chevy type silinoid as long as I use the spacer plate.When I bought the short hood machine it ran but had some stuck valves on two cylinders but still welded like a dream even though it missed like crazy.I got the short hood machine from a friend for $500.00 on a trailer with good leads and he bought it from a old fellow that purchased the machine new in 1953 and used it on a farm for equipment repair ect.The inside of the generator looks new still and was kept in a barn until he sold it to my friend who let water get down the exhaust pipe and thats what stuck the valves on two cylinders.I welded with the old short hood on two cylinders and it welded as good if not better than my 1962 on 4 cylinders.Does anyone know much about the old short hoods I was told that it is an all copper wound machine and is as good as the best of the Red Faces.I painted the machines face Red and the rest cast iorn gray and its going to look like a beauty just do hope it welds like one it should.The old vacum idle system even looks new.Take care everyone.Steve.Good welding is between the shoulder and the holder.I also like the decal logo that says: MILLER KILLER
Reply:Originally Posted by classiclincolnHello everyone.Does anyone know much about the old short hoods I was told that it is an all copper wound machine and is as good as the best of the Red Faces.I painted the machines face Red and the rest cast iorn gray and its going to look like a beauty just do hope it welds like one it should.The old vacum idle system even looks new.
Reply:Originally Posted by DGBHi Steve,As I understand from talking with the people at Lincoln and other knowledgable people, The short hood is not the indicator of being a copper wound machine. Several sources claim the round generator as opposed to the octagonal one is the way to determine if it is copper wound. I think the older short hood machines were probably a strip down version and offered the electric starter as an option. I have seen them with no starter, generator or battery. The overall length of the machine is virtually the same, just more of the generator is exposed. As for the copper vs. aluminum winding thing, I have used both and I found that if the machine is in proper repair and set up right it doesn't make that much difference. Of course there are scads of pipeline welders out there that will swear otherwise. Maybe they're right because they obviously have a lot more time on the stinger than I ever will have. The red face thing seems to be more of user tag than something Lincoln came up with. Although this may not be the case, I suspect that Lincoln only made the faceplates with black on aluminum finish. All the old machines I have ever seen have black and the red ones are usually cover decals. If you are looking to sell anything regarding the Lincolns PM me or use my e-mail address to let me know. I have no idea where you are located. I don't think you will go wrong mixing parts. Of course you will never be able to refer to the machine's code to determine year and specs. I would just keep records and specs of all the machines you got parts from. Sometimes you will run into problems with differences between the 162 and 163 Continental engines. Later Man...
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCThere is a lot of missinformation there for one little post.It doesn't help anyone for you to make up stuff, or take wild guesses or whatever you do. The facts are widely available on the history, upkeep and use of these machines. If you're not familiar, then better to educate yourself before putting a bunch of flat out wrong info on the web that some people might believe.JTMcC.
Reply:Originally Posted by DGB I am however aware that the old shorthood machines are not the only ones that were copper. I have one right now that is a long hood 1958 model with a round generator. I've never said that they were. I've run machines with round generators made in the 50's, the 60's and the 90's. There must have been some reason for offering the different length hoods over the same time period. What years did Lincoln "offer different length hoods"? Lincoln used the short sheetmetal for several years and in the late 50's went to the longer sheetmetal. Over those years I have seen countless SA-200s. For some reason I have never seen an old red face. I've seen hundreds, welded with quite a few, and currently own one, a 1969. You seem bent on flaunting you superior knowledge in a manner intended to belittle others. If that's what gets you off then go for it.
Reply:Lets try this again...What years did Lincoln "offer different length hoods"? Lincoln used the short sheetmetal for several years and in the late 50's went to the longer sheetmetal. I don't know that they were offered. It's just that when I get one sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't but they are in the same period according to the guys at Lincoln when I give them the code numbers.It could be that people have changed the parts around from other machines. I strongly suspect that does happen because of the conditions around this area that promote rusting out. It's just that I really have no way of knowing the actual history of a given machine. All I can do is use the code number.[I]"Someone that intentionally lets missinformation go by, in a field they actually know, understand and make their living in, aren't helping anyone. That's my take. Take it or leave it.[/I]I see your still not getting the point. Although I may be misinformed, I don't intentionally let it go by. Maybe I should be a bit clearer than I have been and make the point that it what I have read or heard from others. I guess you can take or leave that as you say.How about a truce here. I don't really see how continueing this helps anyone. Since you are in the know about all things regarding the SA-200s, I could use some help finding a good source and price for a DELCO 1107382 srarter. Supposedly it is the starter to use on the older machines with the F-162 engines that have the starter ets below the pan gasket line. There was a guy on here saying he would sell them for $150.00 plus core and shipping. I can't seem to raise him now. His price is decent. I'd like to get tha deal if it's possible.Dave B.E-MAIL: [email protected] PAGES: www.wfmservice.comwww.rides4rides.comwww.pvpmedia.com/53f100.htmDad always said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."I say, We can make it better.
Reply:Originally Posted by DGB[I]"Someone that intentionally lets missinformation go by, in a field they actually know, understand and make their living in, aren't helping anyone. That's my take. Take it or leave it.[/I]I see your still not getting the point. Although I may be misinformed, I don't intentionally let it go by.Dear guy`s I did not mean to cause a confrontation between you two.I do know that the octagon generators do have aluminum and the round ones all 100% cooper.The frame and sheet metal is shorter on the short hoods but from the waterpump fan to the exciter brush cover is basically the same length.I really dont think the color of the face plate will make one weld better but I do like the looks of the Red face plates better.You can go to ebay and put sa 200 lincoln in the search box and buy several different face plate decals or the aluminum face plates with the decals on them for around $20.00 to $50.00 bucks.I have heard of welders debating bumping the rack for better quality welds but found out that the govenor has an adjustment screw that can be adjusted to get the heat up at lower settings.My cousin has a 1979 long hood with an octagon shaped generator with a 3" exhaust coming through the hood that sounds like a log truck when it`s welding and he has his govenor set so when he runs in the 190 range he can run root passes in pipe around 20 on scheduel 80 pipe with a 1/8th 5p + welding rod and the rod almost catches on fire when he turns it up to hot pass.I still have a few things to finish up on my 1953 short hood but it is painted cast iorn gray with the face painted red with a black face plate.The new engine is a F-163.I am trying to find a water pump fan and radiator for it but may have to go with new stuff that I know will be pric-ie.I have had welders passing in their welding trucks with their new machines breaking their necks to get a look at the old beauty.Shortly it will be burning rods on the firing line or running root passes somewhere because there is tons of pipeline work here in north central louisiana.Have a blessed night.Steve.Good welding is between the shoulder and the holder.I also like the decal logo that says: MILLER KILLER
Reply:Stuck valvesClassic Lincoln mentioned stuck valves on a short hood. My machine had a couple of stuck valves, luckily it was the ones right under the plugs. I used a non hardened punch and just tapped them back down, turned the engine over, and repeated until they were free. I know I should really take the side cover off and check everything out but it is really running well. I am certainly no expert on side valve/flat head engines but it worked for me. BradLincoln SA200, HH135, Lencospot, HF80 Inverter, Rockwell 11x35 lathe, HF drill mill, Kama 554 tractor w/ FEL & BH, Belarus 250AS, lot's of Chinese tools
Reply:Brad to set the valves on a F-162 or F-163 Enginge pull one plug at a time and put your thumb over the hole and bump the engine until you find compression stroke it will blow your finger off if it has good compression.Stick a screw-driver in the hole to see if the piston is all the way up at top dead center both intake and exhaust valves should be closed.You do have to have the valve cover off the side.The lifter has square sides on it for a 5/8 wrench and also an adjustment screw in the top of the lifter.The end of the valve stem rides against the top of the set screw in the lifter.You can use a 14 thousandths feeler guage to measure your clearance if it is to tight to get in loosen it if it is to loose tighten it.Remember your holding the lifter with a wrench while you turn the set screw in the lifter to adjust the valve lash with a 1/2 inch wrench.After you do one put the plug back in and repeat on each cylinder till done.Easy as eating apple pie.Firing order is from front to back of the engine 1342 and the plug wire cap on the magneto has a #1 on it if properly timed wire running #1 plug wire from the engine to #1 on the plug wire cap and finish wiring in the clockwise position.Hope this helps if needed.God bless.Steven.Good welding is between the shoulder and the holder.I also like the decal logo that says: MILLER KILLER
Reply:Back on topic.Here are some pics of the starter on my SA200-F162.Looks like I need to take care of some corrosion. Lincoln SA200, HH135, Lencospot, HF80 Inverter, Rockwell 11x35 lathe, HF drill mill, Kama 554 tractor w/ FEL & BH, Belarus 250AS, lot's of Chinese tools
Reply:Steven,Thanks for the valve adjustment procedure - I'll save it with my manual. My welder is running and welding fine but I do still need to go thru everything and then work on the finish. It sat for more than 25 years before I brought it home.BradLincoln SA200, HH135, Lencospot, HF80 Inverter, Rockwell 11x35 lathe, HF drill mill, Kama 554 tractor w/ FEL & BH, Belarus 250AS, lot's of Chinese tools |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:33:08