M34A2 Camper Build Questions

admin

Hi! Just a couple weeks ago I purchased a 1966 AMG M35A2 (Deuce and a half) to take me on may new adventures! Right now it has the troop carrier seats in the back with a canvas top. While this will be fine for short trips without the family, I need something I can stand up in with more protection. Because every now and then I might use it as a truck (never know when you might need a 8' x 12' bed!), I don't want to remove the bed. Instead I've decided to build a camper that can mount on top of the bed.After lots of reading and knowing how bad the Deuce vibrates, I decided to build a steel tube frame for the camper. Attached are my initial drawings for the shell. Since I'm not an engineer, my two biggest concerns are overall rigidity and the safety of the over-cab beds. (it extends 42" out past the main shell)How does my plan look? Anything I need to modify?Here is my new ride: (I installed the muffler before the 300 mile drive home so it wasn't too loud)And here are my new camper drawings. NOTE - the blue tubes are going to be 1" x 2" 11 gauge steel tubes and the brown ones are 1" x 1" 14 gauge steel tubes.If you noticed, in the back there is a big opening - I'm planning on having two great big double doors so i can open both to load up an ATV or motorcycle if needed.Also, someone suggested that instead of using the 1x2 11 gauge that I build the entire thing out of 1x1 14 gauge.  I'm also planning on skinning it with 22 gauge sheet metal.Thoughts?
Reply:I can't give you structural help, but as av avid RV'er, I'd ask you to be mindful of having enough headroom and where are the bed, water system etc., going to go?The truck's bed is already 4.5 feet off the ground. Where are you going to get 6 feet of headroom plus the thickness of the floor and ceiling and not collide with low overpasses?Love the idea, been noodling similar on a 1984 Chevy. But my 18 foot travel trailer still wins.Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:You can do without all the diagonal braces if you choose to use a rigid sheet like plywood for the outer or inner walls.X2 about overall height. My work truck, the bed is a lot lower and the interior height is only a bit over 5' 4" max, but I am restricted a number of places in our area due to low bridges and have  some issues on back roads due to low hanging branches. I know one of these days, going down a strange back road at night, I'm going to hit a good sized low branch I didn't see and really F up the box. I've already scratched the upper parts of the body and roof for hitting small ones that move. Overall height on my truck is about 10', so it's not all that tall compared to say a semi..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:This is one of my FAVORITE threads on building a Deuce.5. Give it a read its awesome. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/exped...mah-deuce.html1973 Lincoln SA 200, Already replaced shunt coils, Idle board (SOLD)1984 Miller Dialarc 250HF, Miller water cooler, 250 AMP water cooled torch, you know the worx.
Reply:Thanks for the feedback so far.  Regarding the water system, and other RV items, this isn't going to be what you would consider a cross-country RV.  I'll use it to do weekend trips in the San Juan's. (I live by Telluride, CO). So I'm not looking to build a full-fledged RV.Regarding head room. I currently have it planned for 6' 6".(bed is 4 ft)  It will be tall, but no taller than the M35A2 with radio box on it. (Which was used in the link above). The biggest issue I have with the radio box is there is no overhang on the cab, which I my mind wastes a lot of space that could be used for sleeping.So structurally would using all 1x1 14 gauge been enough?  Or should I go with the 1x2 11 gauge for the main cage as in the drawings?
Reply:Ammoman1x1 Gauge will be light but may be sufficient depending upon the contents of the stuff you plan to carry in your box.  Water, batteries, motorcycles, ATVs add up weight wise.  Give some careful thought to point loads and how you plan to manage them.  Your deuce frame is going to be pretty stiff and not flex a lot with a relatively light load of your box.  If you build a stiff box, mix in some rough roads at speed, your box will eventually come apart if not properly designed.  You need to think about shock isolating your box from the deuce frame.  Plan on designing in some flex and allowance for movement so that the deuce will only induce minimal stress/shock/vibration into your box.  Consider using the 1x2 at the edges of the box and as floor cross members, use the 1x1 as in fill braces, wall members, roof members, etc.Regards
Reply:Originally Posted by AMillerUserYou need to think about shock isolating your box from the deuce frame.  Plan on designing in some flex and allowance for movement so that the deuce will only induce minimal stress/shock/vibration into your box.
Reply:Originally Posted by AMillerUserConsider using the 1x2 at the edges of the box and as floor cross members, use the 1x1 as in fill braces, wall members, roof members, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by TuscanyThis is one of my FAVORITE threads on building a Deuce.5. Give it a read its awesome. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/exped...mah-deuce.html
Reply:A few things...1) I'd give it beveled or curved corners instead of right angle ones on the front and rear top.  Reason is that if you catch a branch on a rounded or beveled corner it stands a chance of rolling off...on a right angle corner it just tears the shell apart.2) as stated before you shouldn't need so much diagonal bracing.  If you plan to use it in an area that has heavy snowfall though you may want to add a bit of peak (doesn't need much, maybe 2-3 degrees) to the top to spread the snow weight distribution out to the sides and down instead of centering over a flat area.3) Deuces are great vehicles...loud as hell (plan to do some sound dampening... even if you don't think it's too loud after that initial drive...it'll get annoying soon) I'd check out steelsoldiers as there are some folks who have done some amazing work in making a Deuce a comfortable vehicle on there.  I would have gone with a 5 ton personally as the auto trans is nicer to drive, they have a higher top speed, and they're a lot more comfortable.That's all for now .--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Originally Posted by wintermuteA few things...1) I'd give it beveled or curved corners instead of right angle ones on the front and rear top.  Reason is that if you catch a branch on a rounded or beveled corner it stands a chance of rolling off...on a right angle corner it just tears the shell apart.2) as stated before you shouldn't need so much diagonal bracing.  If you plan to use it in an area that has heavy snowfall though you may want to add a bit of peak (doesn't need much, maybe 2-3 degrees) to the top to spread the snow weight distribution out to the sides and down instead of centering over a flat area.3) Deuces are great vehicles...loud as hell (plan to do some sound dampening... even if you don't think it's too loud after that initial drive...it'll get annoying soon) I'd check out steelsoldiers as there are some folks who have done some amazing work in making a Deuce a comfortable vehicle on there.  I would have gone with a 5 ton personally as the auto trans is nicer to drive, they have a higher top speed, and they're a lot more comfortable.That's all for now .--Wintermute
Reply:Originally Posted by ammoman3. Yes he is loud!  As mentioned before I installed the muffler before my 300 mile (12 hr) drive home.  I just keep a couple pairs of ear muffs in the cab and it's not bad at all with them on.  As for the 5 ton, I didn't want to get my CDL and I prefer manuals over autos.  Not to mention you can't get a nice 5 ton for only $3,500!  Sure 50 mph takes longer to get somewhere, but I'll rarely be driving more than 30 minutes from my house.
Reply:Originally Posted by jedreylingI'd ask you to be mindful of having enough headroom and where are the bed
Reply:Originally Posted by wintermuteI'd do some sound dampening personally...it's an easy bit of work and pays dividends and then some for even a 30 minute drive .Great purchase though.  I'm still working on the wife to get a deuce, bob it, put super singles on it, upgrade the trans, and a few other things...pretty much have to wait until we buy another chunk of land though where I'll have somewhere to put it not near the house.
Reply:I've driven PLENTY of deuce-and-a-halves in my Army National Guard days.  Very cool!I don't have any input on the steel frame, but there are a few things I'd consider:1. I think I would seriously consider making this a 'slide out,' so you can use the full bed, whenever you want (or leave the camper somewhere as a 'cabin').  This will also make it easier to waterproof near the bottom.2. I know we had hard-body deuces and 5-tons which were tall enough to stand up in.  I don't remember the standard height of a semi-truck trailer, but I thought it was about 13 1/2 feet.  BUT, if you want it a little shorter, you could design in the half-pop-up design (make the hard part of the shell tall enough to put whatever ATV's or toys in it, then make the top 'pop up' to a good height for standing.  (Basically, look at Google images of slide in campers, for design ideas).3. I like the idea of a curved roof, to shed snow and water.  Even just a 4- to 6-foot radius would be enough, and be easy enough to fabricate, with a roller.4. I think I'd consider a trailer for the ATV's or toys.  That's a long way up...and it would take a significant ramp, or at least a boom lift, to get your stuff up there.5. Don't get in a hurry to start building.  Things like this only get better, when you give the design time to percolate.  Look at lots of pictures of campers (of all sorts).  Go to your local camper store and look in as many as you can.  Check out a couple of camper forums.  The more different ways you see someone else do it, the better ideas you will have for how you want to do it.  Give the design plenty of time to mature, while the steel is still on the rack and not in the recycle bin.Looking forward to the build, whatever you decide.KevLast edited by Machine_Punk; 04-08-2014 at 11:36 PM.Kevin / Machine_Punk from The Aerodrome Studio - Lincoln PowerMIG 210 MP - Meco N Midget w/custom welding station - Vintage Victor 100Current Projects: The Aerodrome Studio
Reply:Originally Posted by Canadian WeldingHaha! Thanks. I have spent 3 hours tonight reading that, and I aint done yet.
Reply:First off, thanks for your feedback! Originally Posted by Machine_Punk1. I think I would seriously consider making this a 'slide out,' so you can use the full bed, whenever you want (or leave the camper somewhere as a 'cabin').  This will also make it easier to waterproof near the bottom.
Reply:Just another quick note - originally I planned to build it out of wood, but I figured the vibration from the massive diesel engine would destroy it in no time!
Reply:Ohh yeah, I keep forgetting to mention it...but if you ever feel like a drive up to WA state, I've got an M105A2 trailer with new NDTs, lights, etc... sitting on my property that you can have for cheap (I don't have a vehicle large enough to haul it) .--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Whatever you do Ammo, post pics.  I'm looking forward to following this project. Very interesting and cool.  Also off topic, but the San Juan's are awesome.  Ouray is where we stay most of the time when we visit.  You're lucky!
Reply:Its really is a great one. Originally Posted by TuscanyLol. You're very welcome. I know the feeling. I have read that thread MANY times. It's one that never gets old.
Reply:So when's the project gonna start I'm curious now hahaSent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by ewils35So when's the project gonna start I'm curious now haha
Reply:Originally Posted by wintermuteOhh yeah, I keep forgetting to mention it...but if you ever feel like a drive up to WA state, I've got an M105A2 trailer with new NDTs, lights, etc... sitting on my property that you can have for cheap (I don't have a vehicle large enough to haul it) .--Wintermute
Reply:Originally Posted by jeff scottWhatever you do Ammo, post pics.  I'm looking forward to following this project. Very interesting and cool.  Also off topic, but the San Juan's are awesome.  Ouray is where we stay most of the time when we visit.  You're lucky!If you can find an episode of the show, "Building Wild" (a show about a couple of guys who build cabins in the backwoods), they have a show, where the DID build a wooden 'cabin' on the back of a deuce (I think the show description shows it as building a camp for ex-Navy Seals).If you have Comcast, I know you can get this in "On Demand," by going to the TV shows and looking alphabetically for Building Wild, then looking for the show about Navy Seals.  Otherwise, I am not sure where you might find it.  It originally aired on the National Geographic channel.Here is a link to a web site about the show:http://tvblogs.nationalgeographic.co...e-beast-recap/KevKevin / Machine_Punk from The Aerodrome Studio - Lincoln PowerMIG 210 MP - Meco N Midget w/custom welding station - Vintage Victor 100Current Projects: The Aerodrome Studio
Reply:If you are determined to make it a 'shell,' instead of a slide in, I'd design the dimensions so that the framework goes right to the edge of the short body sides of the bed, then cut whatever I was going to sheath the shell with a couple of inches longer than the bottom of the frame.  This will allow the water to go right past the seam in most instances (it is the way you get rid of water on a house...overlapping seams).  With a shed, this would be nearly perfect, with a 'shed-going-50-MPH,' it might not be perfect, but won't be bad.I think you could have more built-in stuff inside, if you went with bent sheet aluminum and pop rivets (I would use solid rivets, but I have the tools for that).  In fact, if I was doing what you are about to do, I would make the whole thing out of aluminum and sheath the outside with sheet aluminum.  That would significantly decrease the weight.  If I HAD to do it in steel, I'd probably do it in 4130 ChroMoly tubing, with brazed joints (like a fabric-covered airplane), prime or paint that frame, then attach thin sheet steel or sheet aluminum to the framework.  BUT, you have to do it with the techniques you are comfortable with.Looking forward to see where you go with this project.KevKevKevin / Machine_Punk from The Aerodrome Studio - Lincoln PowerMIG 210 MP - Meco N Midget w/custom welding station - Vintage Victor 100Current Projects: The Aerodrome Studio
Reply:Thanks for the link.  Very interesting!  Although I wonder how well a wood "cabin" would stand up to the constant vibration of the massive engine...  I would think over time it would rattle itself apart, but I've been wrong many times before!
Reply:Originally Posted by Machine_PunkI think you could have more built-in stuff inside, if you went with bent sheet aluminum and pop rivets (I would use solid rivets, but I have the tools for that).  In fact, if I was doing what you are about to do, I would make the whole thing out of aluminum and sheath the outside with sheet aluminum.  That would significantly decrease the weight.  If I HAD to do it in steel, I'd probably do it in 4130 ChroMoly tubing, with brazed joints (like a fabric-covered airplane), prime or paint that frame, then attach thin sheet steel or sheet aluminum to the framework
Reply:Originally Posted by ammomanThanks for the link.  Very interesting!  Although I wonder how well a wood "cabin" would stand up to the constant vibration of the massive engine...  I would think over time it would rattle itself apart, but I've been wrong many times before!
Reply:On thing you can do it run some rubber isolaters when you mount it in the back to help with the vibration. Search around and check out the expedition vehicles the way the rear campers are mounted on the frame are awesome
Reply:Ammoman, have you looked at some of the camper builds on www.steelsoldiers.com? We have a lot of guys building these rigs.
Reply:Originally Posted by gimpyrobbAmmoman, have you looked at some of the camper builds on www.steelsoldiers.com? We have a lot of guys building these rigs.
Reply:Ammonman,Take a look at www.truckconversion.net   There is a group over there into building custom "motorhomes" mounted to heavy trucks.  You may find some of the builds interesting.Regards