Heating with oxy-propane vs oxy-acetylene

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My issue is that my oxy-acetyelene cutting torch does not put out as much heat as I would like, when I use the torch for heating.I was looking at the data for my Victor Performer Journeyman torch, and came up with the following.  I think that the cutting tips are numbered X-3-101, where X is the tip size.Tip size  vs.  Acetyelene Consumption in Standard Cubic Feet per Hour (SCFH)#2 tip      10-18 SCFH    -  This is the largest tip that I own today.#3 tip      14-26 SCFH#4 tip      18-30 SCFHI have the 75 cubic foot acetylene tank, which I understand is the largest tank that I can own outright (vs. lease).   Also, it is about as heavy as I can easily move around, so I am not inclined to buy or lease a larger tank.I understand that you should not withdraw more than 1/7 of the acetylene tank capacity in an hour.  75 cubic feet times 1/7 per hour is about 11 SCFH.   So I am more or less maxed out on my current tank with a number 2 cutting tip.As far as cutting steel, my #2 tip is rated up to 1.5 inches thick, more than enough for my use.But as far as using my #2 cutting tip to heat, it does not put out as much heat as I would like.   I would like to get a substantial area of steel red hot to bend it, and it is slow work, and if I try to heat a large area I cannot get it all hot at the same time.Here are the choices as I see them.Get a larger acetylene tank or manifold two or more tanks. Big and heavy.Switch to oxy-propane for heating, but unclear what that will cost.   Propane should be cheaper than acetylene, and I suspect that I can draw at higher rates from a propane tank than an acetylene tank, especially if I put the propane tank in a pan of water, to keep it from freezing up.Is there any way I could use my current torch and hose for propane?  Or is that a no-no?  I think that the hose is rated for any fuel gas, but once you have used the hose for one gas I am not sure if that precludes you putting another gas through it later.I asked about rosebud tips, and they seem to run around $80, just for the tip.  Would I need a new torch body?I already have an adjustable pressure propane regulator for my forge, and of course I have an oxygen regulator.Is a practical upgrade going to cost me $500?   Or am I just looking at it wrong?  Should I switch to propane?   Or just lease a big acetylene tank?  Or manifold two acetylene tanks?I should say that fuel cost is not a major factor, since I don't use that much acetylene right now, maybe a tank a year or so.   But I need more heat from time to time.RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:holy-lotsa-issues at once. i use my acetylene hoses and reg with propane and have had no problems. propane has no withdraw limit like acet because it is not suspended in acetone. water bucket is a good idea, i hadn't thought of that. propane puts out less btu's than acetylene. a rosebud should fit on your regular torch bodyDynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:You should consult the manual to see if your fuel regulator is compatible with propane, on more expensive torch set they seem to be rated to work with propane.  Now you just will have to buy a rosebud designed for propane and a propane tank.
Reply:Propane puts out more btu's just at a lower temp versus acetylene and that is a good reason to use propane for heating up steel.
Reply:If your hoses say "grade T", then you can switch up and back with any fuel gases you want.Yes, propane is cheaper for heating than acetylene, but you'll be going through oxygen faster.  Hope your oxygen tank is large.Yes, a small rosebud isn't much more than a cutting tip with no center hole from a heating perspective, but it should work better than a cutting tip for you for a few reasons:1) its not angled at 90 degrees, but more like 45.2) its on a long stemWith these combined with how it attaches to your torch body in place of the cutting head, it keeps you more away from the uncomfortable heat, and is easier to hold.Still, you're not going to run much of a rosebud on a 75cf tank.Funny about 75cf being the largest you can own.  I own a 140CF, and had once owned something about twice that size.  No issues by me with size, but I've heard similar stories (with different cutoffs), from different regions.If you go with a rosebud and propane, make sure its a propane rosebud (I think Victor marks them LPG).  They're NOT the same as acetylene rosebuds.
Reply:Propane is great choice for heating.  All you need is heating tip for propane and to be safe a Grade T hose.  25Ft grade T hose shouldn't cost more than $25.00.  $80.00 for a propane tip is a little high also.You will empty your oxygen cylinder very fast if it is an 80cf using a heating tip with propane.Do not try to run even a small heating tip off a 75cf acetylene cylinder.OAdoctorwww.regulatortorchrepair.com
Reply:The basic reason, as was mentioned, is the amount of heat, not the temperature. OA burns at a higher temperature in the primary flame only. The secondary flame burns with less heat than other fuel gases. Propane and MAPP gas burn at lower temperatures in the primary flame, but the secondary flame creates more heat, (BTU's). This is a wider area and is well suited to heating larger areas on your workpiece.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I've always used oxy/propane for heating. It's cheaper than Acet., here any way. And true be told, I'm not big on the black wisppies you get with Acet. Interestingly, my LWS says not to use rosebud torches. Can't remember the reason(lots a years ago). Don't know if it was a propane thing or a volume issue. Anyone else heard of this? Checked out your site Richard and I like your work. Bert200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Originally Posted by bert the welderInterestingly, my LWS says not to use rosebud torches. Can't remember the reason(lots a years ago). Don't know if it was a propane thing or a volume issue. Anyone else heard of this? Bert
Reply:Usually rosebuds are ran @ 15 psi on the acetylene side which is at the pressure that acetylene starts to becomes unstable.
Reply:Stick-man: Interesting. I think, now that you've mentioned it, that was the reason the LWS gave. But, if I'm reading your post correctly, you are using a rosebud with your bbq propane bottle? I use a bbq bottle too. If this is right, what size of rosebud are you running?Thanks Bert200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Originally Posted by bert the welderStick-man: Interesting. I think, now that you've mentioned it, that was the reason the LWS gave. But, if I'm reading your post correctly, you are using a rosebud with your bbq propane bottle? I use a bbq bottle too. If this is right, what size of rosebud are you running?Thanks Bert
Reply:I've been using oxygen/propane for years for cutting/heating and it is the ****...a 5 gallon BBQ bottle of propane will service 2+ K-bottles.  Most of my work involves heating/bending and I hate putting the A bottle on!
Reply:Good to know. Thanks guys 200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:For preheating stuff, a torpedo heater is a much easier option, and cheap. It gets to 900c or more depending on ambient temp.   Just an idea.Syncrowave 350Coolmate 3Millermatic 251Spoolmatic 30A
Reply:I know everyone has said it but Ihaven't posted for a while so I have to chime in, go with propane it works way better than actyleneway cheaper and lighter to lift . At my age 72 lifting the oxy is bad enough .  Happy welding . Jim
Reply:Gear'n up for a Smith Oxy-Pro rig.  Found this simplified article helpful, Comparison:  Oxy Pro -vs- Oxy Acetylene."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:I like oxy/propane - I think you will too. This video shows a nice shot of the "star pattern" shown with a nuetral flame.Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 08-01-2015 at 08:53 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I have three tanks on my portable machine; a "K", or "T", (if I feel like lifting it) Linde cylinder of oxygen, a comparable sized acetylene cylinder, and a 30# propane bottle. I have grade "T" hose on a 100' CoxReels spring rewind reel, and tips/rosebuds for each fuel gas. You cannot braze with propane worth anything so acetylene is used there, and as backup for the propane when it's tank extinguishes. I don't really notice too much difference in consumption rates from fuel gasses but propane definitely does not have the btu content acetylene does. It takes me about twice as long to pierce a hole in 1" plate with propane as opposed to acetylene using appropriately sized cutting tips. I have "Smith" regulators which are old but in good repair and have never had problems switching between gasses. I've used propylene also but propane is less expensive to use around here. I know the thread is old but the information is still very prudent. I've never had a problem swapping tanks at most LWS vendors unless it is branded with a couple of different brand names on the cylinder collar.Thanks,SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobI have three tanks on my portable machine; a "K", or "T", (if I feel like lifting it) Linde cylinder of oxygen, a comparable sized acetylene cylinder, and a 30# propane bottle. I have grade "T" hose on a 100' CoxReels spring rewind reel, and tips/rosebuds for each fuel gas. You cannot braze with propane worth anything so acetylene is used there, and as backup for the propane when it's tank extinguishes. I don't really notice too much difference in consumption rates from fuel gasses but propane definitely does not have the btu content acetylene does. It takes me about twice as long to pierce a hole in 1" plate with propane as opposed to acetylene using appropriately sized cutting tips. I have "Smith" regulators which are old but in good repair and have never had problems switching between gasses. I've used propylene also but propane is less expensive to use around here. I know the thread is old but the information is still very prudent. I've never had a problem swapping tanks at most LWS vendors unless it is branded with a couple of different brand names on the cylinder collar.Thanks,
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveTechnically, Propane has about 1000 btu per cu.ft more than acetylene. Technique and proper adjustment play a large role in making sure oxy/propane cuts as efficiently as possible.I'm not saying your not doing it right, but twice as long has not been my experience.
Reply:Probably technique on my part. Here is a good write about it: http://www.cousesteel.com/AndysPlace...Acetylene.htmlSlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Are you intending to pre heat steel, or use  heat bending? If just pre heating you dont need to use oxygen at all, get yourself a propane heating torch that draws air, spreads the heat out very well, but wont concentrate the heat enough to get steel red with any accuracy
Reply:@ MinnesotaDave - cool.  'The Professor' from Smith has nice vids on Oxy/Acet and Oxy/Pro. Only change to his procedure would be to always turn ON the fuel (ie. Acetylene, Propane) first and turn OFF the fuel first.  Believe he secures the fuel, in the above vid, after he stops the flow of O2.  Thanks for sharing!The Smith Oxy-Pro rig will be used for cutting, preheating metal for shaping and welding, and other general "gas axe" applications.  My LWS is offering a sick deal on O2 refills in my customer-owned 80CF cylinder.  The cylinder is usually relegated to Ar/O2 and Ar/CO2 for spray arc, but the LWS will allow a transition to an O2 bottle with refills.  No $ financial hit in going back and forth btw O2 and inert/active (eg. Ar/O2, Ar/CO2, TriMix) cylinders n fills.  Last edited by ManoKai; 08-02-2015 at 07:31 AM.Reason: word choice"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:I've been wanting one of these propane/air burners for heating.  http://www.hybridburners.com/products.htmlSome of the BTU outputs:  http://www.hybridburners.com/BTU-cha...ml#shortychart"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder@ Oldendum - that rocket torch looks awesome for heating apps.  Thanks for sharing.  Never ran one.  Let us know how you like it after you acquire/use."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi