Tank or Regulator problem, or both

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I picked up a barely-used Syncrowave last week, and practiced sticking with it for a few days.  Just last night, I hooked up the tank and regulator that came with it.  Everything went together fine, with no leaks, but I have two problems.  The regulated pressure is only 12 cfm, and no matter what I do with the regulator, it doesn't change ( up or down ).  The tank pressure is reading 700 psi.   It seems like something is jammed or otherwise stuck in the regulator.  My first thought was to remove it, and try to clean it out... but if 700 psi Argon won't dislodge whatever is in there, I'm not sure I have anything else than can.  Then I considered having the tank refilled, and reconnecting everything to see if that helps... until I considered the possible ramifications of applying ~2000 psi to a broken regulator.   What would you do?  "Buy a new regulator" is definitely on the table, but if it isn't something major wrong with the one I have, I don't mind trying to fix it.   Thanks.__David Hillman
Reply:Check with your LWS. My guy would have no issue letting me hook up a reg quick to check it out.  That's assuming you don't have someone who's cylinder you can borrow to check it with. If you have a mig, the reg from that would work to get you up and running in the mean time as well as something you can use as a gauge to see whats in your cylinder. Also the mig cylinder is the same CGA fitting usually as the one on the argon cylinder, so if you have a cyl of mig gas you can do this yourself.OAdoctor here rebuilds regs. You can PM him with info on your reg and he can let you know if it's worth rebuilding, what it would cost, and what a new or rebuilt reg would run you..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks.  I don't have a MIG, or other cylinders.  For that matter, I don't have an LWS yet either.  I just bought my first welder, and before that, hadn't welded anything since some farm-type stick repairs twenty years ago.  I did buy a new helmet and some consumables from HTP, which is nearby, but I'm not sure I've established a strong enough relationship to waltz in with broken parts of unknown source, and expect help.  They are awfully busy each time I stop by ( plus they only sell/refill little tiny tanks so I probably won't buy gas from them anyway ).   I guess I take the reg by my friend's, and test it with his mig tank... but that doesn't get around the issue of providing 2000+ psi to a possibly broken part.  Probably no way around that other than just buying a new one.Last edited by David Hillman; 04-08-2011 at 05:21 PM.__David Hillman
Reply:What kind of regulator is it; sounds like it has a flow gauge, not a flow meter? Can you post pictures of it?I'm assuming the tank gauge read zero before you opened the tank valve, and thus that that gauge is at least nearly correct. What about the low pressure (flow) gauge? Did it also read zero, and do you get any flow if the hose is disconnected?
Reply:Originally Posted by David Hillman   I guess I take the reg by my friend's, and test it with his mig tank... but that doesn't get around the issue of providing 2000+ psi to a possibly broken part.  Probably no way around that other than just buying a new one.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2What kind of regulator is it; sounds like it has a flow gauge, not a flow meter? Can you post pictures of it?I'm assuming the tank gauge read zero before you opened the tank valve, and thus that that gauge is at least nearly correct. What about the low pressure (flow) gauge? Did it also read zero, and do you get any flow if the hose is disconnected?
Reply:Originally Posted by David HillmanThe regulator that came with my welder is a Smith, stock number H1957B-580, according to the stamping on the rear.  Looks just like this one, http://www.bakersgas.com/SMI31-50-580.html except with significantly more miles on it.   On a lark, I stopped by HTP on my way home from work, expecting to find them closed at 6 on a Friday.  The boss was still working, though, and hooked me up with a new flowmeter, this one, in fact... http://www.usaweld.com/Welding-Flowmeter-p/12020-f.htm  ( Also listened to me recount this very thread, and didn't have a suggestion other than what I was there to do... buy a new 'meter. )   So I came home, and swapped the Smith unit for the HTP.   Now I'm even more confused, because it's doing basically the same thing.   The high-side gauge read 0 psi.  I attached it to the tank, and opened the valve on the tank.  The high-side gauge went to 700 psi and stayed there.  The regulator was open and the ball in the flow-side gauge jumped up, and then settled back on the bottom.  Nothing I do with the regulator will now move the flow-side gauge ( ie ball ) at all... but the high-side still reads 700 psi.   I feel like I'm missing something incredibly obvious.  Is the tank just empty?  I would think 700 psi would be enough to at least move that little ball in the flow gauge.   Hypothetically speaking, if the gas were leaking out inside the welder, what would be the symptom(s)?  Wouldn't the high-side very rapidly drop to ~15 psi?   I didn't think this was going to be the hard part    Thanks for the assistance.
Reply:hmmm ball?? sounds like you got a real flow meter, you need to draw gas to read itpull the trigger (or purge) to set flow rate.    ah now the picture comes up .. ayah thats it! - it's a true flow meter. the gas has to be flowing to measure the flow. fred-- fredLincoln 180C MIG
Reply:The one from Bakersgas you posted is exactly the same one on my Syncrowave. (kind of figured it would be) It should read higher as you tighten the T handle, but to lower it you will need to either unhook the hose or cycle the machine to release the gas in the line. I'd still bet on the LP gauge being bad if it won't go higher.As far as the ball type, often those will only measure flow while the gas is flowing. You will need to cycle the machine to start the gas flow, then make your adjustments while the gas is flowing on pre/post flow.Don't trash the old reg! If flows gas it would be good if you ever need to back gas stainless, and as a back up incase you damage the new flow meter. All it may need is a new gauge. If nothing else you can probably get a few bucks for it "as is" here from someone willing to take a gamble on a cheap reg to back gas stainless tube..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2You are now confusing the issue by discussing the two units as if they were the same, which they aren't. One is a flowmeter, the other a flow gauge. You also didn't answer my questions which were to help diagnose the original problem (that is, with the first unit). DSW also brought up some good points, including the one about a bad LP gauge.