Getting Shocked??!!

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For the first time ever tonight, I was getting zapped..felt like intermittent static charges like you get when you walk across the carpet and touch the TV. I called it quits, came up from the garage and my jacket is full of static, my hair is standing up from the static charge. I was welding DCEP SMAW, alternating between two plates, one with 7018 rod and the other with 7014 rod...taking turns to let the plates cool. For PPE/clothes I am wearing a nomex overcoat (although I did have a fleece on under it), welding hood, leather gloves, cotton tee shirt, blue jeans and leather shoes. I am 100% positive I didn't insert myself into the DC circuit. The stinger is in good condition, and I wasn't leaning on or touching the welding table. Got shocked through the gloves. About the only thing different tonight is that I bought a fan to push the smoke away from my face.What's up with this? Any ideas?Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Check your 120v or 240 plug your machine is plugged into for a ground circuit. That could explain it.
Reply:You need to get in the bath tub immediately. Those are all the signs of pending spontanious combustion.I'd check the machine's ground like kk said.
Reply:My brother is a licensed electrician and he put in a dedicated 230v circuit for me a couple of years back. I didstinctly remember watching him ground the circuit, to the neutral bus bar I believe. I'll have to check the owners manual for any other grounding requirement. Its just funny that this never happened before. You guys ever see a static build up like this?Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:The fleece you are wearing, is that the synthetic stuff that burns fast or the kind that melts to you?Maybe I'm remembering wrong and it's cotton, just checking.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:No, it's the bad kind. And I should know better since I used to run into burning buildings for a living. But I figure with the nomex over top I would have to work pretty hard to catch it on fire.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961No, it's the bad kind. And I should know better since I used to run into burning buildings for a living. But I figure with the nomex over top I would have to work pretty hard to catch it on fire.
Reply:BobDon't give up the cure - our industry needs a Saint.Opus
Reply:When a welder is grounded to the neutral bus bar the welder frame becomes neutral, or more literally connected to the utility company's center tap. If there is neutral current your body can create a secondary path for a portion of that current to ultimately reach the supply transformer's center tap. A welder's third conductor should be connected to equipment ground. At the home's service disconnect the equipment ground system should bond to neutral. AT NO OTHER PLACE ON THIS PROPERTY SHOULD THEY BE CONNECTED. This means you need separate conductors for ground and neutral all the way to the garage. At the garage it should connect to building steel, steel in the concrete, and one or two ground rods driven in to the ground 8'. We see this phenomenon more often when electric ranges or dryers are supplied with 3 wires, Mom touches dryer and washer at the same time,  or range and sink or refrigerator, she shares the work of conducting neutral current. When a long service cable, or bad connections in the neutral portion of the circuit it can become severe.
Reply:The garage is in the house....the other half of the basement. I am no electrician, but I thought my brother installed a 4 conductor cable from the panel to the garage. I thought he grounded to neutral in the main panel. Again, I am no electrician but I believe my brother knows his business.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:I dunno then. Dig out a voltmeter start probing two things at a time. It shouldn't be static unless you're standing on a wool carpet. It was you said it was connected to neutral.
Reply:How about just plain ole static discharge like you mentioned? It fries ckt boards all the time. And zaps the dogs nose too."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961 I didstinctly remember watching him ground the circuit, to the neutral bus bar I believe.
Reply:No wet gloves. It was 24 degrees here yesterday. Everything is extremely cold and extremely bone dry.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Ok, spoke with my Bro. The circuit is 8/4 conductor on 40 amp breakers. 2 hots, a neutral and a ground. Neutral and ground are only bonded at the panel, and ground goes to my plumbing as well as to an 8 foot copper ground rod. I have to check but I think he ran neutral to the outlet and ground to outlet housing. I thinks hat might be the problem. From the Hobart manual, it looks like the third leg of the whip is supposed to go to ground, not neutral.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:How about attaching a 10 AWG or 8 AWG wire to the welder ground lug supplied by the manufacturer and to a ground rod and ...... Oh we've already discussed this. Don't need one. Never mind. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:And for the record, I am not trying to argue with you guys, I am just not very literate when it comes to electrical service. I may be misstating things is my only point.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:From your sig I am assuming you are using your Stickmate when this happens.  From the manual, this is a transformer welder and there should be no connection between the primary (240 AC input side) and secondary (welder output.)  Maybe something is amok in there.Also, only 2 hots and ground are used at the welder plug.  No neutral.   If you are not using the Stickmate, then ignore all this.Last edited by pin2hot; 03-26-2014 at 10:47 PM.
Reply:OK sounds good. At the welder what is the white neutral connected to? Did you ask your brother? Do you have High Frequency? Is your ground lead well connected? Clean, and tight? My Dialarc would belt me if ground clamp got knocked off.
Reply:Get an electrician out to your place immediately and have them check what's going on. Probably an hours work of labor at most. It's not worth your life. Receiving a electrical shock may disturb your heart rhythm ...and lead to a heart attack, usually hours later when you think your doing fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie B At the welder what is the white neutral connected to?
Reply:Any chance the fan has a short in it. If by removing the fan from the table and unplugging it. causes the shock to go away. Problem in fan.
Reply:I have to double check today, but I am pretty sure the neutral goes to the third leg of the whip (which I realize now is incorrect) and the ground terminates on a ground lug on the outlet casingMiller Multimatic 255
Reply:I think you guys made the right call....not properly grounded...check these picsMiller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961I think you guys made the right call....not properly grounded...check these picsIt looks correct, but we would have to see where the same wires are going in your breaker box.
Reply:Black and red each go a breaker, white goes to the neutral bar, and green goes to the ground bar. the neutral and ground are bonded in the panel. So white is not acting as a current carrying conductor, it is acting as a ground. I have read that you don't want to run current through your ground wire by using it as a neutral, but I have not seen anything about the opposite situation, which is to say using your neutral as a ground, which was permissible in the code prior to 1996. I'll probably go in and change it around. But I think I need to check my work piece ground more than this.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961Black and red each go a breaker, white goes to the neutral bar, and green goes to the ground bar. the neutral and ground are bonded in the panel. So white is not acting as a current carrying conductor, it is acting as a ground. I have read that you don't want to run current through your ground wire by using it as a neutral, but I have not seen anything about the opposite situation, which is to say using your neutral as a ground, which was permissible in the code prior to 1996. I'll probably go in and change it around. But I think I need to check my work piece ground more than this.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyHow about just plain ole static discharge like you mentioned? It fries ckt boards all the time. And zaps the dogs nose too.
Reply:The picture is correct if the white conductor is going to the ground buss bar in the service panel. The bare copper wire should do the same. The white conductor should have been tagged with green tape or marker at both ends to designate it as being used for a ground. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:I am writing this one off to the dry weather. I burned three pounds of rod tonight without an issue. It is pretty damp around here now, as the rain came in.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Is your table grounded?  Not just your work clamp but an earth ground.Idealarc 250AC 225SVictor OA-older made in USA stuff.And a crap ton of other stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961I am writing this one off to the dry weather.
Reply:No actually, the table really isn't grounded. Didn't realize it was supposed to be.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Could be a dumb question but if the ground from the welder is attached to the table, or the work piece sitting on the table. Does that not ground the table also ?  I do know that if you get RF from a tig machine it is suggested, that a separate ground be run to each component, that's in the manufacture's manual. I got shocked using my tig, jammed the filler into the tungsten. I think that was because the protective cover was removed from the torch. It was removed to increase the flexibility. But decided the shock or chance of that was more important to eliminate then having the flex.The most interesting part was I had called Miller and asked about removing the cover and was told it was ok. But I have my doubts, after getting hit, and realizing the only thing changed was the cover, it has been reinstalled. I will find out soon enough if I am correct, time will tell. I also wonder if not wearing a glove while holding the filler could also contribute to the possibility of setting up the operator up to get zapped, if the filler gets jammed into the tungsten ........ And yes it is preferable to not do that, but a boot tends to do this while learning. Last edited by pepi; 03-29-2014 at 08:19 AM.Magazines have issues, everything else has problems
Reply:Originally Posted by pepiCould be a dumb question but if the ground from the welder is attached to the table, or the work piece sitting on the table. Does that not ground the table also ?
Reply:Originally Posted by pin2hot   I taped a third wire to the cord and attached to that wire in the hose and put a banana plug on the other end into the ground hole in the receptacle.  No more shock static.
Reply:It never hurts to drive one of those 8' copper ground rods in close to where your machine is located and then bond it to the work terminal of the machine with a short length of welding cable.  I've had that solve a lot of problems in the past with getting shocked and stray high frequency interfering with other electrical /electronic equipment.  A good idea is to put one in just outside the building close to where a down spout discharges rain water and keeps the ground wet.  If you drill a hole out in the middle of a big concrete slab in side a building some times the ground underneath is to dried out for them to work very well.   This can be fixed by occasionally pouring water down the hole around the rod.   Better yet use a solution of copper sulfate dissolved in water to do this.Blasting cabinets are another good source of static electricity shocks in dry climates.   All it takes is a small wire hooked to the cabinet and then run to an earth ground so it's continually bleed off and doesn't accumulate.
Reply:If we are talking simple random static discharge then the hole "grounding" thing could turn into a convoluted nightmare. We're talking + charges, - charges and what or who has the most and what or who needs some of those plus and minus thingies. If you're getting zapped every time you touch the door knob then the human body is what needs the attention. You install a banana plug on your azz and plug in a static strap while you're walking around. Static strap like they use on state trucks, or wrist straps like we use on our equipment cabinets. Maybe wear some of those cute static discharge shoe socks like they do in a hospital.  Maybe you could use one of the safety belts like they use when working substations. Always clip onto the next item before you take the clamp off the item you are moving from .Or you could put on a pair of big boy panties and just live with it. "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:The safety ground is attached the screw which grounds the outlet housing just as deisgned. I dont know why some people post.