Hi guys, think this will hold together?

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I'm a new welder and I'm doing a little fabrication on my dune buggyAs you can see I'm still pretty terrible, just wondering if you think this will hold togetherHere's my welder, it's a Hobart 210 MVP on 230 voltsHere's one of my crummy welds, it's actually got a bead where it needs it but I went over it here and there and got some excess lumps Here's another one, just as bad those flanges connect my engine cage to my dune buggy, it's kind of a big deal because the engine mounts to that cageWhat do you think?That motor is aluminum and not super heavy and it's mostly supported by the tranny that was put in place by a real mechanic lolAt least the bottom of the cage is securely bolted to the tranny mountBut the motor is a beast with all kinds of torque, and I fly in that thing seriously 60mph through the airThink it'll hold up? lolLast edited by Steve92004; 08-16-2015 at 09:35 PM.
Reply:If you want better opinions on your welds, take pictures BEFORE applying paint/primer. What I can see, there is something to be desired with what little weld you have on those flanges. It should have been welded completely around the tubing. Not just in 3-4 places.
Reply:Awww I left the top and bottom where the bolts go unwelded because the rest of the buggy was done that way from the factory. I thought it was so the nuts bolts would fit
Reply:There is stil plenty of territory between the side welds for more weld to be applied. The last photo of the flanges, the bottom weld barely looks like it made contact.
Reply:So you think it might fail? Maybe I should wire brush it and blast it some more
Reply:It's hard to see, does the flange slip over the tube? If so can you weld both sides of the flange? Those flanges are pretty critical, you might save a bunch of moola by grinding the welds out and doing them over. Use your judgement, do you trust them? The fact that you are asking about them is good enough reason to do it over. Nice buggy btwThermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:Looks to me you have a very marginal weld. I suggest you grind it out and weld it again, after you practice making much better welds. Show us your welds after some practice and then we can say whether you are ready to tackle is again.ChrisAuction Addict
Reply:Start over. Those welds are cold and I can see porosity, through the paint, on at least one weld. Those are not going to hold.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:The weld on the mitered tube appears to have porosity as well..Journeyman / Red Seal Welder (What a useless test)Miller CST 280Miller XMT 350Miller 12vs XtremeEvolution Evo 28 mag drillEvolution 380 Dry Cut saw
Reply:Ok thanks guys, I got a couple weeks before it needs to go back together.  Truthfully I could stand to lose a half inch off the top tubes.  I think I'll just cut them off and pick up another pair of flanges and redo them. I actually did much better on the engine side of the cage. The two that I posted were my first ones, probably should have practiced on some scrap first lol
Reply:The most important question to ask yourself is what would happen if it had a catastrophic failure.  Why would you paint the welds and then ask if they're good enough? It's more like your trying to hide how bad they are. Some jobs require experience and I think this is one of them. I've seen sign posts and other light duty stuff where the weld was left out for a bolt to fit but this was a static load not something under stresses from being jumped at 60 MPH. My opinion is that this isn't a beginner welding project. Not quite as bad as a beginner welding a trailer to pull down the highway but right up there. I'm guessing you have a few thousand dollars invested. Paying to have an experienced welder weld it up is cheap insurance if you ask me. Sorry to be blunt but I call them like I see them.
Reply:As you stated you are "pretty terrible."You are making light of a serious matter - your safety.Number 1 rule:  never ever weld on the real thing until you have perfected your technique and welder settings.Many hours of practice will save you many more hours or re-doing work.Good luck and have fun Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by Newfie_1986The weld on the mitered tube appears to have porosity as well..
Reply:Originally Posted by Newfie_1986The weld on the mitered tube appears to have porosity as well..
Reply:i thought the porosity was that new "super sponge 70t" ive been hearing about. the sponginess helps to improve ductility.not trying to be rude, but i have seen better work on i-beam stiffeners crack. i-beam stiffeners dont have a very tough job.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:So the dune buggy had already been used a lot and you're adding a new engine or something? Looks like a lot of fun.  Where do you race / ride? I can see where that engine cage could hit the ground first on a bad landing or is that not really possible?It looks like the ones I found online with an engine that sits that far behind the rear wheels have stiffners that run upward to the frame.  Are you adding these?Maybe the photo is an optical delusion though.  Maybe the engine isn't as far back as it looks.  I know nothing about these things. Just asking questions.CheersLast edited by engineer1984; 08-17-2015 at 01:38 AM.
Reply:Yeah just upgraded the motor. That's a good point you make, the bottom of the engine cage is beat to hell. There's not a speck of powder coat left on the bottom. One of my buddies owns a welding company in san diego, his nickname is cupwalk, I used to call him cupcake and  he explained cupwalk is a welding term lol. I'm going to give him a call and have him do it.
Reply:One thing to keep in mind is that mig welding is notorious for making good looking welds that don't hold so when a mig weld looks questionable you really have to wonder about its strength. Remember, weight isn't the only thing those welds are having to hold up against, if that cage is what the engine bolts to those joints are going to be subjected to vibration.My "collection":Homemade Stick WelderVictor O/A TorchAC 225Ideal Arc 250HF 90 Amp Flux CoreHF Mig 170Solar 2020 Plasma CutterPower i-Mig 140EHarris O/A torchHF Dual Mig 131140STAlpha Tig 200x
Reply:Those flanges look like they are for a pump .  I would have the flanges slide over the tube [ as stated ] and weld the inside and outside . I think you should consider making them from thicker plate and having four bolts instead of two.
Reply:Originally Posted by Steve92004That weld came from the factory and is under severe load, the car had been pushed to the limit endlessly. If mine holds up a tenth of the strength of that one I'm in good shape
Reply:Thanks guys!Here's the welds from the engine side of the cage, I think they are a little betterI ran a continuous bead around both sides then blasted it a few more times on top of that. I really blasted it... it was on fire lolI wasn't trying to hide anything with the paint, I figured it was good to go and was getting it ready to put togetherAnyway I talked to my buddy Mike, he owns San Diego Metalcraft, I'll have him redo itThose flanges are pretty standard on roll cages, they slide over the tubeI am running a couple 1.5 120 tubes from the back of the roll cage to the top of the engine cage, those will be flanged or knuckled together as well. Everything has to be able to come apart, I don't want to cut the cage off every time I need replace a clutch or something.. I'll have my buddy weld those up tooOr better yet maybe I could have him show me while I do itLast edited by Steve92004; 08-17-2015 at 12:09 PM.
Reply:No. No it wont.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:You should weld it all the way around. Only time and abuse will tell if it will hold.
Reply:Credit goes to you for accepting criticism without an attitude, very rare on this siteREAL TRUCKS DON'T HAVE SPARK PLUGS
Reply:Originally Posted by Old SkoolCredit goes to you for accepting criticism without an attitude, very rare on this siteWhere are you located?  If you are close to Tustin, I will come weld it for you for free with your welder...
Reply:One more word of advice, drop the "LOL"'s. Some people see that as a sign of lack of seriousness in your conversation/post.
Reply:Just because those flanges are '' standard '' doesn't mean they are the best. I would feel more comfortable with four bolts and thicker material. That's me, I love overkill and safety !
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeNo. No it wont.
Reply:Originally Posted by kazlxWhere are you located?  If you are close to Tustin, I will come weld it for you for free with your welder...
Reply:Originally Posted by drujininOne more word of advice, drop the "LOL"'s. Some people see that as a sign of lack of seriousness in your conversation/post.
Reply:Let your buddy weld it.
Reply:Well, as I will freely admit, when it comes to welding, I am an IDIOT,  but...I would not do that bit of welding myself without a lot of experience - even if an experienced welder is looking over my shoulder. I would have your buddy who is an experienced welder do the work, and give you lessons on something that you don't have to trust your life to (scraps, or perhaps some other non-critical part of the project - gauge or light mounting brackets, perhaps?)
Reply:The flanges hold the engine cage......about 20 lbs of steel tube. I would not worry about it until it breaks.
Reply:Originally Posted by Steve92004Can I at least post some smiley faces? Life's too short to be so serious
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3The flanges hold the engine cage......about 20 lbs of steel tube. I would not worry about it until it breaks.
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3The flanges hold the engine cage......about 20 lbs of steel tube. I would not worry about it until it breaks.
Reply:Wahoo!  Positive feedback!  LolOn a serious note though, almost all the photos of dune buggies with motors out that far back had uprights going from the motor sub frame to the main frame.  Looks like a good idea. I think that would help take a lot of stress off the four flanges you have right now.  Do other cars have thick rubber gaskets between the flanges to help with isolating engine vibration and big hits? That also might be a good idea.  During a hit, those could also reduce the amount of stress seen by both the sub frame and main frame.  Wonder what other builders do... I guess there are already big rubber washers on the engine mounts.  So maybe that idea is a bad one.  I would think about it though.  The sub frame doesn't have an effect on your driving, so maybe it doesn't need to be super stiff. Sounds like a trade off scenario that other builders would have already thought about. Anyway, it sounds fun!  Enjoy!CheersLast edited by engineer1984; 08-19-2015 at 07:05 AM.Reason: Removed photo of naked lady
Reply:Steve(OP)....well DynaSteve tooSome of the things I used to see at the Silver lake dunes in Michigan would make a grown fabricator cry.......so your cage looks first rate.I could not see engine weight being applied to the cage so in that case I would keep a close eye and see how the weld fair and respond accordingly.
Reply:Originally Posted by engineer1984Wahoo!  Positive feedback!  LolOn a serious note though, almost all the photos of dune buggies with motors out that far back had uprights going from the motor sub frame to the main frame.  Looks like a good idea. I think that would help take a lot of stress off the four flanges you have right now.  Do other cars have thick rubber gaskets between the flanges to help with isolating engine vibration and big hits? That also might be a good idea.  During a hit, those could also reduce the amount of stress seen by both the sub frame and main frame.  Wonder what other builders do... I guess there are already big rubber washers on the engine mounts.  So maybe that idea is a bad one.  I would think about it though.  The sub frame doesn't have an effect on your driving, so maybe it doesn't need to be super stiff. Sounds like a trade off scenario that other builders would have already thought about. Anyway, it sounds fun!  Enjoy!Cheers
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3Steve(OP)....well DynaSteve tooSome of the things I used to see at the Silver lake dunes in Michigan would make a grown fabricator cry.......so your cage looks first rate.I could not see engine weight being applied to the cage so in that case I would keep a close eye and see how the weld fair and respond accordingly.
Reply:Hopefully not the same pro that just got done doing RCB's planter
Reply:Originally Posted by kazlxHopefully not the same pro that just got done doing RCB's planter