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I have no experience whatsoever in welding. I want to make these though.I do not want to go out and buy things that do not work so hopefully someone can shed some light on my stupid questions.No question is stupid, yeah they are because I am stupid on welding.Thanks for any help.Question is, what do I need to make one of these, will a pen torch or propane torch work. I do not know how hot chain link needs to get to weld together the links so what do I need? I do know the pen torches reach 2000 degrees but want to know if that is enough. I prefer not to buy a welding unit, I am very poor and need to do this on the cheap.Please when you answer don't be like a JA and state things irrelevant or your opinions. I just want to know the minimun degreeI can weld chain together and the cheapest route possible. Thank you
Reply:No, next project! With minimal knowledge, tools or skill, you are wasting your time. Could it be done....yes, can you do it no. Being honest.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:better off using duct tape...Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Just doesn't get Hot enough to weld.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Plastic chain, maybe.
Reply:Hmmm..how about instead of welding, it was soldered or brazed? I am no silver solder expert, but this is non-critical stuff (e.g., not a trailer), why not go simple?Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Just doesn't get Hot enough to weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by nicksavageThank you Broc and Louie. Nice straight answers, none of the politics in them. That's probably why I very seldom visit forums.Now you said Brazing or soldered. I thought of soldering and do know how but really didn't think holding up a 2 pound bottle with liquid 24/7 would hold long enough. I again am no expert on Soldering, this is just my thought. I do not know anything about brazing, will look it up.Can anyone chime in about soldering or brazing, Thanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by docweldersilver solder is expensive. brazing is hard to do without proper equipment that also is costly and could be dangerous in inexperienced hands.
Reply:I found this video on youtube, it is using a flux with a propane torch to join galvanized steel. Would something like this be strong enough for the chain in the long run, if so then I would assume when I go to harbor freight to look for a small torch, some low heat solder and I get the rod.Thanks and let me know if it would work.
Reply:no, regular solder is soft and wont hold the stress of the chain with such a small area soldered,Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:You guys are funny! Did no one notices that the chain links in the pic are not even welded? Just buy lamp chain at the hardware store, twist the links open, join them, and twist them closed, project done. If you really want join them with liquid metal look at a silver solder, but be advised, the plating will burn off. You could also braze them with a propane torch.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerYou guys are funny! Did no one notices that the chain links in the pic are not even welded? Just buy lamp chain at the hardware store, twist the links open, join them, and twist them closed, project done. If you really want join them with liquid metal look at a silver solder, but be advised, the plating will burn off. You could also braze them with a propane torch.
Reply:Look again It is welded.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:If you zoom in close you can see they are welded. Especially the one across the top of the bottle neck. It also looks like it was chromed afterwards.
Reply:What exactly are we looking at here?Does the chain actually hold the bottle up off of the table by the neck?If so then the links are definitely welded. That could actually see quite a bit of stress as if that's what it is the bottle will be using it's heaviest part as a lever against the loop of chain and all of the links are probably going to have to be actually welded together. I know it's a dirty word around here, but I wonder if a $99 HF welder would be useful for something like that. It's just a bunch of spot welds and the worst that could happen would be a broken bottle of wine...Millermatic 180Hypertherm PM65 083300CandCNC Dragon Cut Linux 620-4 Bundle with Linux Computer Precision Plasma Magnum HD 5x5 Gantry kit
Reply:I think you are right and thanks. Originally Posted by roadkillbobbno, regular solder is soft and wont hold the stress of the chain with such a small area soldered,
Reply:Now I have figured out that a propane torch such as this Gets to 3200 degrees and from what I can find steel melts about 2800 degrees, so would that be enough to weld or would brazing it with aluminum rods and the torch work for long term.I do apologize everyone and yes I am learning alot just by watching your replies and googling.I am a disabled veteran and this is wanting me to take some more free college for welding lol.Also i don't get notifications for replies, how do i do that so I know something has been posted. Just an old man trying to make a few bucks is all I can say.Or would this work for brazing, it gets to 2300 degrees and looks easier to use. The videos I saw on youtube shows you only need to get below 1000 degrees to braze. Attached ImagesLast edited by nicksavage; 08-22-2015 at 12:10 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Labmaster02If you zoom in close you can see they are welded. Especially the one across the top of the bottle neck. It also looks like it was chromed afterwards.
Reply:You can solder copper, make the links out of heavy copper wire.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverYou can solder copper, make the links out of heavy copper wire.
Reply:brazing or soldering would be a pain in the butt! you would have to hold each link as it was heated, filler added, and solidified.to me, this is impossible without a mig welder, flux core or solid. then you can position each link with a light gloved hand, "gzzzz", "gzzz" and done. any other way and you would be fighting clamps and generally just going through he!!bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Originally Posted by 92dlxmanbrazing or soldering would be a pain in the butt! you would have to hold each link as it was heated, filler added, and solidified.to me, this is impossible without a mig welder, flux core or solid. then you can position each link with a light gloved hand, "gzzzz", "gzzz" and done. any other way and you would be fighting clamps and generally just going through he!!
Reply:I missed the boat on that one, I thought the chain was all loose and he just wanted to join the links.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerI missed the boat on that one, I thought the chain was all loose and he just wanted to join the links.You would be successful if you used silver solder and MAPP gas (just like you would use propane, and uses the same torches).One of the keys to soldering is to keep the part stationary until the solder has solidified. Any movement will cause the molten metal to crystallize and weaken. It's easy to set up a jig that clamps the links so that you can solder them. Dan----------------------------Measure twice. Weld once. Grind to size.MIG: Lincoln SP100 TIG/STICK: AHP Alphatig 200X
Reply:Originally Posted by dbstooYou would be successful if you used silver solder and MAPP gas (just like you would use propane, and uses the same torches).One of the keys to soldering is to keep the part stationary until the solder has solidified. Any movement will cause the molten metal to crystallize and weaken. It's easy to set up a jig that clamps the links so that you can solder them. Dan
Reply:I also don't understand, if silver solder melts at under 1000 degrees why would propane not be acceptable. Please remember I am stupid on this. I am using the definition stupid which I am on welding. Seems propane would do just as well on silver though.Holding the device steady is no problem with clamps and jigs.
Reply:Here's a list of a few of the more popular gases and their combustion temperatures ...http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fl...ses-d_422.html250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I highly doubt you could make them cheaper than the $9 you can buy them for from China. If you use any kind of heat to join the chain links, you are going to have major heat marks and then they will have to be re-chrome plated. You'd need a MIG welder and jig to make them and could always paint them but chroming would likely cost over $10/piece unless you were getting a significant amount chromed at the same time. If you're thinking silver solder, be sitting down when you price it. It's not sold by the ounce because it's cheap. If you want to use a micro torch or even a larger torch with a disposable cylinder, the price of the gas would be cost prohibitive.
Reply:I was hoping china wasn't that cheap but i guess they are, I will just have to sell extra so I can buy in big enough lots then I can get them for 6 bucks.Thanks everyone for your help.
Reply:How many people do you think are going to want to buy them?
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveI highly doubt you could make them cheaper than the $9 you can buy them for from China. If you use any kind of heat to join the chain links, you are going to have major heat marks and then they will have to be re-chrome plated. You'd need a MIG welder and jig to make them and could always paint them but chroming would likely cost over $10/piece unless you were getting a significant amount chromed at the same time. If you're thinking silver solder, be sitting down when you price it. It's not sold by the ounce because it's cheap. If you want to use a micro torch or even a larger torch with a disposable cylinder, the price of the gas would be cost prohibitive.
Reply:These types of things are normally welded. Brazing with mapp gas is possible if you insulate the area your heating. I posted some tests a while back. Not sure how well the brazed chain joints would hold having never tried it. Give it a shot and report back.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...anything-thick
Reply:Originally Posted by nicksavageI think you are right and thanks.Quote Originally Posted by Ovrrdrive View PostWhat exactly are we looking at here?Yes it holds it up is why I'm trying to make sure I do it the right way. Don't know what a bad word is here so i will take your word for it lol.Does the chain actually hold the bottle up off of the table by the neck?If so then the links are definitely welded. That could actually see quite a bit of stress as if that's what it is the bottle will be using it's heaviest part as a lever against the loop of chain and all of the links are probably going to have to be actually welded together. I know it's a dirty word around here, but I wonder if a $99 HF welder would be useful for something like that. It's just a bunch of spot welds and the worst that could happen would be a broken bottle of wine...
Reply:elsewhere on this forum is an example of what a welded chain wine bottle holder should look like. imvho of course. the chain the op is using is too lite and for some reason looks off when supporting the bottle. if the op does want to go to the expense of using silver the color will probably not match the cheesy looking chain.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveHow many people do you think are going to want to buy them?
Reply:If I were going to braze or use a higher temp silver solder, I would try to get a Turbo Torch or similar style "swirl" torch. They run hotter. My son brass brazed up a piece of artwork using 1/8" and 3/16" steel with MAPP and an older style torch just fine. Though it was plain steel, not galvanized or chromed. (These days, you can't get real MAPP gas, just "MAP-Pro" or similar substitute.)http://store.cyberweld.com/exselito.htmlhttp://www.bernzomatic.com/product/t...rt-torch-head/http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-JT.../dp/B000WH2WIORelated thread: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...anything-thick"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:You really need a smaller more concentrated flame than most of the off the shelf propane torches can provide. Sure it's 'doable' but real messy. The flame is so big you can't even get the filler in close without melting the end off, the flame shoots well beyond the work area, there is a huge radius around the work area that has to be absolute cleared, bla, bla, bla. It's like heating a pot of coffee with a flame thrower, gets it done I guess."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Your my winner, plus I was talking to one of my VA friends today who went to school for welding on gi bill, he didn't have the exact thing I was going to braze but he did have some mapgas or w/e he called it and a fitting like you showed and he said it was more than possible to hold a 3 pound bottle up.I think it is worth trying and he just use a rod he had from the auto parts store I think he said it was regular brazing rod whatever that is. He is going to try to do one with just propane and the mapgas and let me know but I do know even if i buy that stuff I can use it to make other useful saleable items.Thanks so much for everyones time. Originally Posted by OldendumIf I were going to braze or use a higher temp silver solder, I would try to get a Turbo Torch or similar style "swirl" torch. They run hotter. My son brass brazed up a piece of artwork using 1/8" and 3/16" steel with MAPP and an older style torch just fine. Though it was plain steel, not galvanized or chromed. (These days, you can't get real MAPP gas, just "MAP-Pro" or similar substitute.)http://store.cyberweld.com/exselito.htmlhttp://www.bernzomatic.com/product/t...rt-torch-head/http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-JT.../dp/B000WH2WIORelated thread: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...anything-thick
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyYou really need a smaller more concentrated flame than most of the off the shelf propane torches can provide. ...
Reply:I apologize Sandy for missing your post. After researching I do think you are correct but I think the adapters to the bottles (whatever you call them) would change the flame from large to small correct. Originally Posted by SandyYou really need a smaller more concentrated flame than most of the off the shelf propane torches can provide. Sure it's 'doable' but real messy. The flame is so big you can't even get the filler in close without melting the end off, the flame shoots well beyond the work area, there is a huge radius around the work area that has to be absolute cleared, bla, bla, bla. It's like heating a pot of coffee with a flame thrower, gets it done I guess.
Reply:I think if you do the research, you will find that there is NOTHING that you can make that would be cheaper than buying it already made from China. Normally, you can't even buy the MATERIAL cheaper than the finished product.I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but it's the way it is.Maybe you could buy them cheaply from China at a wholesale price and then retail them at a profit...
Reply:Originally Posted by Sandy It's like heating a pot of coffee with a flame thrower, gets it done I guess.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWR Lee Ermey school of fine cooking?
Reply:Originally Posted by nicksavageI think the copper for the size needed would be way to high plus I don't think I could make it presentable enough by making it with copper wire, I can get the chain link fairly cheap is why I just wanted a way to weld it.
Reply:Originally Posted by Sandy"All you sissies stand back while I show you how to heat coffee". )
Reply:Post your location and maybe a member is near you that would help.
Reply:A set of custom spot weld tongs might do this. Dan D.Manipulator Of Metal
Reply:I agree with most answers here. Your just wasting your time to consider welding anything with propane like this or almost any material for that matter. You can silver solder or braze them together. There are different types of brazing rods and heavy silver solder rods with Flux already on them sold at places like Home Depot or similar if you don't want to get more then a few pieces and some of those are made to melt at lower temps then regular brazing rods as MOST brazing is done with oxy-acetylene. This is also different as most silver rods or smaller silver wire you have to add flux seperately. There are also small torch kits that take mapp gas and oxygen (cylinders the size of regular small propane bottle) made by companies like Berzomatic (spelling?) that do get alot hotter then your regular propane torch you'd use for soldering. These are cheap enough the only downside to these is the oxygen cylinders don't last that long. They don't work quite like a regular oxy-acetylene torch in the sense that you don't have the oxygen burst that you would normally need for cutting, and they're alot smaller duty. So this's really only good for heating, soldering, brazing, or rediculasly light welding (damn thin sheet metal welding). People are gonna tell you you'd be better off to buy the real thing and they're right, but I know not everyone has the cash to invest right away as I didn't years ago when I 1st started my welding career. If your only doing very light duty stuff like around the house there is also the option of buying a cheap generic brand of 110volt flux cored MIG welder as these are alot cheaper now'a days then you'd think, may be worth looking into for yourself. Again your better off to invest the $ to get a better welder but if it's only for the occasional light duty STEEL ONLY welding at home it is an option and it'll be a hell of alot stronger then brazing if done right. Either way your gonna have to scrape that pretty chrome away before ya can do any of these options listed here or above. If you end up going the method of silver soldering, get rid of the little pen torch and spend the couple of dollars it costs for a regular small propane torch. Some of those lil pen ones can get stuff hot enof to solder but it takes a while and the fuel burns out very quickly... Sorry so long of an answer, good luck in your project bud!!!Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:30:26