FCAW and Arc Force and Settings

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I would like to ask if it is normal to use arc force on welding mild steel in Vertical and Overhead position of fillet?1f and 2f was actually fine but when i tried 3f I could still control it but i would have a very big beadAlso what would be a good technique in root pass? Just a stringer? or a small side to side with a little pause?Exercise is Uphill with 3 passes.My settings are:Wire Speed: 150 ipmVoltage: 21VArc Force: 20Machine Used: Miller XMT 450Material used: Angle bars 1/4 Thick
Reply:Interesting question, but considering what arc force does - I would have to say not to use it with FCAW.  Anyone else?Some reading for you on arc force or "dig": http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...rticle108.htmlDave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Thanks dave for clarifying that. What settings would recommend i use?Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:I don't use FCAW very often - I just use the settings listed on my machine.What wire size and type are you using?Here is a page from the miller site: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.phpNote that .035 and .045 are both listed - as well as dual shield .045 and 1/16Dave J. Attached ImagesLast edited by MinnesotaDave; 02-20-2013 at 11:14 AM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:You listed an XMT450 - does the adjustment dial look like this?Seems like you should have it set on FCAW...Dave J. Attached ImagesDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Thanks for the link on miller.  i'll try it out later. And also Yes that's how the dial looks like on the machine.
Reply:Update: i got a satisfactory weld on 3f uphill. About 21 volts and 165 ipm. But for the 4f. I tried it. And it was bad. I used about the same settings. But the problem is that there are a lot of droplets metal and sticks on the lower part of the metal. Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:Once you go overhead you may have to adjust slightly.  Do it one thing at a time though.  Try Voltage over and under current setting.  Then put it back.  Then try wire speed over and under.  It should only take a small change to help.  Watch your stickout on overhead - make sure it did not change.It's would be really nice to have someone adjust settings during your weld so you can see if it's worse or better.Do a site search on FCAW and see what others have done.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...=FCAW+overheadhttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...=FCAW+overheadetc.Keep tryingDave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Thanks for the advice dave. I'll try to find the right setting for me. Thanks. Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:You should be able to run overhead with about the same settings as flat. Maybe just a touch cooler, but not much.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:True, but unfortunately my settings for flat has an arc force  and i got a new setting for overhead fillet (4f) The would was just satisfactory but what's been bugging me is having those molten droplets.
Reply:Originally Posted by derekgabswhat's been bugging me is having those molten droplets.
Reply:If you're talking about Dual Shield you want to set your wire speed to where the arc is making a gentle wooshing sound. If it's crackling and popping the wire speed is too high. If you were welding flat it wouldn't matter so much. If you're getting droplets the wire speed may be too low.All the plate welders in Alaska pretty much welded everything right around 30 volts with .045 wire, but those guys really knew what they were doing.You haven't given us enough info about wire size and gas or not. "Flux core" covers a lot of territory.I think arc force is for stick rod, 6010 root on pipe versus 7018.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGI think arc force is for stick rod, 6010 root on pipe versus 7018.
Reply:my bad guys. We use E71T-1 .045". We use CO2 as a shielding gas. Very sorry for the lack of information.
Reply:21 volts with .045 wire sounds pretty cold to me. Jack it up to about 28 and set your wire to where you get that whooshing sound and see how that works.Also we always used 75/25 gas, I never tried it with straight CO2.If you look at the fine print on that chart MinnesotaDave posted it says CO2 runs hotter than 75/25, it gives you some voltage settings, too. Play with the voltage some till you get it right. It took me a long time to get good with Dual Shield, and I had already been welding 20 years when I took it up.Last edited by TimmyTIG; 02-23-2013 at 03:46 PM.
Reply:Ok. I'll try to play with the voltage and wire speed. But is it really running too cold in 21 volts? For overhead and vertical? Also i got a question about groove preparation place. What is the correct root face and root gap measurement?.Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:Why not look up the manufacturer's recommendations for voltage, and wire speed?Far as groove prep, root face, and root gap, is all information that will be in the WPS?Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:21 is too cold. FCAW is designed to run hot and fast.Root gap 3/16 to 1/4put a dime to nickel land
Reply:Originally Posted by derekgabsOk. I'll try to play with the voltage and wire speed. But is it really running too cold in 21 volts? For overhead and vertical?
Reply:Thanks for that info guys. Uhm im still confused on what would be the proper dimensions for the root face? In school we use 1/8 as a gap but the root face were not really said to what is the proper measurement.In stick welding. We used the diameter of the rod as a root face. But in Mig and FCAW i dont know what is the proper fit up. Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:With .045” wire, and using a backer bar I don't think I'd worry with any root face. Here is what one guy did with a 3-G test. http://www.gowelding.org/3G_FCAW_Wel...ification.htmlDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Yes. But unfortunately for our practice we dont use backing bar. Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:TimmyTIG said root face: thickness of a dime to thickness of a nickel.You will find out what you like with experience.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIG21 volts with .045 wire sounds pretty cold to me. Jack it up to about 28 and set your wire to where you get that whooshing sound and see how that works.Also we always used 75/25 gas, I never tried it with straight CO2.If you look at the fine print on that chart MinnesotaDave posted it says CO2 runs hotter than 75/25, it gives you some voltage settings, too. Play with the voltage some till you get it right. It took me a long time to get good with Dual Shield, and I had already been welding 20 years when I took it up.Originally Posted by derekgabsYes. But unfortunately for our practice we dont use backing bar. Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:Originally Posted by derekgabsYes. But unfortunately for our practice we dont use backing bar.
Reply:Too high voltage will also create worm tracks, but it doesn't appear to be the case here.Leo
Reply:Your weld kinda looks better than mine. Did some molten droplets tried to stick on below your bead? Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:Originally Posted by derekgabsDid some molten droplets tried to stick on below your bead?
Reply:Here is a vertical up I did with the same wire some years ago. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I was surprised to find once I increased the voltage 25 + I could not keep the welds from having worm tracks. Even when I brought the volts down to 22.5 the only way I could keep from having worm tracks was to have the wire speed up enough that the wire pounded into the puddle. When I set the pinch to -2.0 the wire flowed into the puddle, almost acceptable. At -3.0 I got a worm track. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:You getting tracks increase your wire speedSent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Reply:Originally Posted by beamwalkerYou getting tracks increase your wire speed
Reply:worm track causes and cures:http://www.esabna.com/us/en/newsletters/worm-tracks.cfm
Reply:Interesting and informative thread so far Did not know that gas shielded flux core caused so many issues.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I haven't hardly run any dual shield since the 1970s. Some wires seem to be more voltage sensitive than others.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI was surprised to find once I increased the voltage 25 + I could not keep the welds from having worm tracks. Even when I brought the volts down to 22.5 the only way I could keep from having worm tracks was to have the wire speed up enough that the wire pounded into the puddle. When I set the pinch to -2.0 the wire flowed into the puddle, almost acceptable. At -3.0 I got a worm track.
Reply:Truth be known, I think I listen to a weld as much as I watch. When ever I have to wear ear plugs I can't weld! I really liked the way that last picture I posted welded. Except for the worm track. But after reading the link that TimmyTig posted. Got me to thinking, this wire has been setting in a locker for years. Even though it has been in a plastic bag inside the cardboard box, it still could have picked up some moisture!Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:When I first built my shop it had a dirt floor the first winter and the only heat was a Tiger torch. If I didn't use up the 35# spool of dual shield by the end of the week, it was giving trouble by Monday. Moisture raises hell with that wire.Leo
Reply:Didnt realize that one too. Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:Originally Posted by derekgabsUhm im still confused on what would be the proper dimensions for the root face? In school we use 1/8 as a gap but the root face were not really said to what is the proper measurement.In stick welding. We used the diameter of the rod as a root face. But in Mig and FCAW i dont know what is the proper fit up.
Reply:Thanks for that pdf. Ill try to look into it. Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:I agree, no reason to go over 26 volts max with .045" using C-25 gas. Flux core is designed to be used in a "globular transfer". 24 volts is a perfect start for voltage. My students just did their 3G, grooved weld test on 1/2" plate using 23-24 volts, with W.F.S. between 235-245, keeping at the lower end of both parameters. All passed with beautiful cosmetics and clean bend test. I would try 23volts at 230 WFS on some over head, as these parameters will give you good puddle control using .045" and 75%-25% shielding gas. Had some problems in the past with worm tracking also. There was allot of humidity in the shop and it does play havoc with the results. I also have a 1/8" recessed nozzles. With the contact tip recessed 1/8" inside the nozzle and proper stick out, ( not being too excessive), will help keep the voltage at the work piece where it should be. In some cases, this change did help, it other cases, DAMN MOISTURE AND HUMIDITY!)Last edited by LT1Adavanced; 05-11-2014 at 10:25 AM.