Stick 110 vs. 220.

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I've been looking around the internet trying to find an article or video pertaining to the differences between 110 & 220. The general consensus is that 220 is much nicer, but nobody really explains it in depth. Is it easier to strike? Easier to control? Is the arc smoother than 110, but not as smooth as DC? Help me out here if you can. I have a 110 ac buzz box and I'm getting a 220 ac soon. I very well may make a write up or video explaining the differences between my 2 machines. Don't know if there'd be much interest, but if I have wondered I'm sure others wonder as well.
Reply:The advantage to a 220v stick machine is that it has a much higher available amperage, i.e., you can use larger diameter rods and weld thicker materials. It will also tend to have a higher duty cycle in the range your 110v machine tops out at.Hobart Stickmate LX235AC/160DCRanger 305GVictor 315 O/A rigHope to acquire in the next couple of years: Hypertherm PM45 and Dynasty 200DX
Reply:If you run a 220v welder at or below the maximum output of your 110v welder you'll see no difference other than diminished duty cycle time for the 110v welder...and then only because the duty cycle on the 110v unit is usually less...far less...than what you would obtain from a 220v welder at low to mid range settings. You will see a marked difference between an AC only welder over an AC/DC welder in DC operation in any voltage combination due to the sine wave not have to pass the baseline of the sine wave 120 times a second in DC operation like that which occurs during AC only operation. Once the sine wave current passes above or below baseline readings at 60 hertz a second the power to the stinger is extinguished or interrupted momentarily and the electrode must make up for it with a flux coating configuration that aids in bridging the extinguishing effects of that start/stop action. No real difference in the striking quality of electrodes, ease of control or arc smoothness between any transformer based 110v & 220v arc welders as that is totally a product of going with a DC operation on an AC/DC welder instead of the rapid hic-up sine wave dance of an AC only unit.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:My little 110v arc welding machine gets pretty warm after burning 2 or 3 rods in a row and it has to have a 30amp circuit to be worth a dam.Problem is you have to run it at nearly full power to get good fusion and you cant get any where near full power on a standard 20 amp standard house circuit. Plus it doesnt run that great on AC, forget running 3/32 inch and bigger. I like DC on that machine way better, on DC it will almost burn a 1/8 inch 7024 rod properly and it actually runs 3/32 inch 7018 pretty good.I cant even strike an arc with 3/32 inch 7018 on AC with that machine. I think ocvs and arc volts are just too low.To run AC on these machines I think you need to stick with tiny 5/64 inch 6013 or 6011 rods. (Not to be confused with 5/32 inch rod).On my 240volt powered 230amp output stick machine I think it can burn 1/8 inch rods all day. You will need a break before it does.I like AC in that machine bettwr than DC. It runs much higher AC open current volts than the little machine.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyIf you run a 220v welder at or below the maximum output of your 110v welder you'll see no difference other than diminished duty cycle time for the 110v welder...
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcI'm going to respectfully disagree with this claim.  Look at my signature, I own both a 240v and a 120v stick (transformer based) welders. Set my Forney at "90," "75," "60," or "40" amps and I always get hard(er) starts with 1/16 or 5/64" electrodes (6011, or 6013, regardless of the brand ie. Forney, Lincoln).   Now set my Lincoln Buzzbox on AC (keeping the comparison equal here, minus the voltage input) to the same amperage settings and the 240v Lincoln fires off those same electrodes 100% better and smoother.  The 120v machine "sticks" more on initial start ups, while the 240v Lincoln "sticks" far less, if ever on the first strike.  I believe this is due to the fact that a 240v machine will have a higher OCV than the smaller 120v machines do.  I believe the higher the OCV when the arc circuit is "idle," makes for easier arc strikes/start-ups initially.    Either way, even if I'm not explaining it correctly about the OCV, the 240v transformer machines perform much better on start ups and at the same amperage output settings than a 120v transformer machine does.
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyI'd tend to totally agree with you. I hadn't taken into account the "dig" aspect on those two differing voltage machines.
Reply:Not all stick machines are created = some inverters weld exactly the same on 120 as they do on 240 volt. Duty-cycle, and max amps is the only difference in using them. Thermal 161s comes to mind.. My Thermal-arc Pee-Wee 85s l (120 volt stick welder) has a higher OCV then my Thermal-arc 161S had on 120 or 240 volts. Welds 6010 beautiful. Attached ImagesEsab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:But the O.P. says he has a 110 ac buzz box. Probably something close to 70 amps, 40 OCV. Just the other day I was looking at a Campbell Huasfeld version that is currently on sale at TSC. I was thinking about buying one to use solely with a twin carbon arc torch, but I wasn't not sure how well it would work with about half the voltage of most 220 buzz boxes.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcThat's it, the "dig" setting is what I meant.  But, you knew that too what I was try to 'splain here. .  IIRC, "dig" setting is just another word for "voltage" control on a CC type machine (stick welder).
Reply:Way Too much vagueness in your question:If all you have is a 50 amp to 70 amp output old style transformer then all you going to be able to weld with is 1/16" diameter 7014 or 5/64" diameter rods and that is it period.  Duty Cycle be low like 10% to 15%, arc starts harder due to lower OCV, but it will certainly weld projects suitable for those rod diameters just for not very long at a time.  A welder like this can be a versatile repair tool for making quick simple repairs, but not such a great unit at building large scale projects from scratch.Run with those exact same two rods (1/16" 7014 and 5/64" 6013) on a 230 volt input and say 225 AC output welder and your duty cycle will likely be 100% at the those low amp settings and the rod will strike easier due to a higher OCV.  In addition, you have the luxury can also run other rods diameters (3/32" and 1/8" for sure and likely some 5/32" in some rod types).  Even the duty cycle maxed out at wide open will be better than the little 115 unit was.  Additionally, you can run other rod types that are suitable for AC like 6011, 6013, 7014, and 7018AC.  So you have much broader spectrum of what you can do and choose.Add DC capability to the mix and you have more rod choices still.  Want to a scratch start tig rig to it and you can with DC ouput.Go the inverter route and you may get a little more capability out of 115 volt unit since they are a tad more efficient in power useage but that is a topic for another discussion.  Instead of 50 to 70 amps output you will get 80 to 90 on an inverter. Note to remember:  In general stick welding is not a process well suited for welding thin metal (thin metal is where mig wire feeders excel).  So any low output stick welder is really only suitable for welding 1/16" thick and thicker metals and you have to be pretty darned good to weld 1/16" thick even with stick without lots of burn through.  Add low output 115 volt stick unit to the equation and it is not suitable for very thick metal either (1/8" thick to 3/16" in a pinch) due to low welder output so you end up with a power source that is very limited in capability range.  Go with a bigger 230 V welder and it is still limited to the same 1/16" thick metal on the low end (due to the limitation of the stick welding process itself but not the machine itself) but the bigger machine can do much thicker metal than say only 3/16" thick and do it easily so it is a much more versatile tool.There simply is not one low cost machine that excels everywhere.Last edited by rankrank1; 05-10-2014 at 11:02 AM.
Reply:i don't know anything from sine waves or much about ocv but i do have both a 110 and 220v welding machines. with the 110 you better go small with rod diameter and quick before the breaker blows with some down time between rods to let the machine/breaker cool down. 220 machines with the proper breaker have none of the drawbacks of the 110 machine.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob E.But the O.P. says he has a 110 ac buzz box. Probably something close to 70 amps, 40 OCV. Just the other day I was looking at a Campbell Huasfeld version that is currently on sale at TSC. I was thinking about buying one to use solely with a twin carbon arc torch, but I wasn't not sure how well it would work with about half the voltage of most 220 buzz boxes.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob E.But the O.P. says he has a 110 ac buzz box. Probably something close to 70 amps, 40 OCV. ......
Reply:Yours is slicker than what I was looking at.
Reply:Originally Posted by seif5034Actually, I currently use this  just a cheapie-cheap buzz box from Amazon for $50. It seems to do alright. Supposedly it'll run 100amps, but I haven't put a multimeter on it to verify & no idea of OCV. It seems to do the job pretty well. I bought a 5lb box of 3/32" 6011 to learn with and general-purpose welding. It'll even run on a 20amp breaker until you get on the higher end of the amperage range.
Reply:rank1; you're right about 30 amp breakers being scarce. i hate to drag out the big ideal-arc for light work so i use the 110v machine and most of the wall outlet breakers at work are 15 or 20 amp. you either gotta be quick and finish fast or wait till everything cools down between welds before the breaker blows.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla