brand new vantage issues

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I have a brand new vantage 500 duetz currently has 24.8 hrs on it.       When running it will shut itself off for no reason.   Anywhere between 5 min and 2 hours of running. at first I thought it was because I left the little cover down when I was fiddling with the inductance and that vibrated the switch down.  but it has since done it with the cover up and latched. Oil fine level is fine temp is under 150 Deg.    IT will always restart by turning the main power switch off and back on and hitting the starter.   is their some sort of idle timer on the unit?  every time it shut down it had been idling for around 5-10 min while I was repositioning a man lift for the next weld location.    Which is a pain in the rear to have to then go all the way down out to the truck re start the welder and then run the lift back up to the work location.I know its under warrantee for another 35 months but I don't really want to wait for them to take a look at it not to mention dismounting it from the truck.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:not helping but sell it to omar insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:If you have a local Lincoln dealer, you could drive the truck there.  Bob Crow at the factory is the engine drive guy.  He has helped me out a couple of times, once not even for an engine drive.  Give him a call, I bet he knows what the problem and answer are.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Only 4 reasons why it would shut down1) Low oil2) Low Coolant3) Non charging battery4) failed protection boardSince it's not imediatly shutting down you can practically rule out the protection board. The coolant sensor would be my next guess, as perhaps the wires off the sensor are not making a good contact, or your oil is low, though I assume you've checked it.You would have a battery light on when the unit was running, did you forget to tighten the battery post on?
Reply:Is the air vent in the filler cap (on diesel tank) properly venting, or is the vent somehow plugged?[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Originally Posted by CruizerOnly 4 reasons why it would shut down1) Low oil2) Low Coolant3) Non charging battery4) failed protection boardSince it's not imediatly shutting down you can practically rule out the protection board. The coolant sensor would be my next guess, as perhaps the wires off the sensor are not making a good contact, or your oil is low, though I assume you've checked it.You would have a battery light on when the unit was running, did you forget to tighten the battery post on?
Reply:Originally Posted by Dualie1)Snip...How do I get ahold of Bob Crow?  I briefly looked on Lincoln's web site and couldn't find it but that doesn't mean much as im pretty tired right now.
Reply:I was running the machine under light work today running some 6022 1/8" puddle welding down some decking (child's play for a 500 amp machine) and it did it again.   I'm thinking the fuel cap vent might be the cause.   Under carefully examination it appears the little vent stack nipple thing on the fuel filler cap is ever so slightly smashed down.   you really have to look at it closely to even notice.    I might just go ahead and get the upgraded fuel fill cap for it.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:problem number one duetz, solution kubota!! I have a vantage 300 kubota, n this sucker runs like a champ! I like to crank it all the way up from time to time just 2 c it work, n 2 clean out the carbon, n the kubota just bears down! never shut down though! solution number 2 warranties use n abuse it thats what there there 4! take it in, if the place is worth a **** where u bought it, they would give u a loaner, while it is being fixed! Thats what my dealer would do!!!!
Reply:So...Take the cap off for a day.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:No kubota availible for the 500.   Only air/oil cooled duetz or Water cooled perkins.    I looked at the perkins and the water cooled just seemed like one more thing to go wrong with it and a nother system to maintain.Did it again today.   it dosent act like it should if the tank wasnt venting.   It just stops running.  i would think if the tank wasnt venting that it would start to bog down then die slower.   when it shuts off its just like you flipped the switch.   Im going on vacation till next week so it will have to wait till i get back.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Sometimes I've had to drill a small gage bit into the vent cap for tank ventilation as I have encountered this problem before in the fieldThough it should bog down under load,It shutting down suddenly is likely a miscalibrated oil or low coolant sensor.Oh the under powered Kubota engine is a good engine provided the welder is at or near sealevel, otherwise not so good as the electronic govener does not sence altitude, while the Duetz doesn't care as it has an over abundance of HP and monitors air & fuel mixtures for peak performance.Last edited by Cruizer; 10-19-2008 at 04:07 PM.
Reply:well I just got back from my week long "vacation" in Columbus.   I have crane work in the morning then after that im going to just run the hell out of it and see what happens.  It sits in the back of my F-450 Out in the weather so i really don't want to drill a hole in the fuel cap.  im going to just try running it with the fuel cap really loose.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:I don't know whether it's got murphy switches for engine shutdown but thats how they will act if there goin south.
Reply:well i ran it for 5 hours today tried it with the fuel cap off and on.   Died twice with the fuel cap on tight.   once with it loose.  IM going to thumb through the manuals tomorrow and find the number for the factory and give bob crow a call.on the up side when it is running it really lays down the .072" NR-232 (AKA the devils wire)   This is a 3x3x3/8" HSS Tube with a 1" plate insert full pen welds to the side of a 4"x6"x1/2" HSS tube done in three passesTaken with the camera phoneVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by Dualieon the up side when it is running it really lays down the .072" NR-232 (AKA the devils wire)
Reply:Didn't really think it was the fuel cap, still think its a bad oil/coolant sensor.Unit has a protection board not a Murfy init.Also happened to find on several units that the units were going to over heat and shutting down as the owners never ran big rod to start off with so the valves carboned up.  I like loading these at night, looks like the 4th of july with all the flaming carbon chunks and diesel shooting out the stack loaded to 500 amps.
Reply:well they load banked it for 2.5 hours before I picked it up.  I have been running it on high idle for the last 20 hours and trying to keep the arc on time up.I talked to the local Lincoln factory service center today he told me to check the alternator belt.    I still need to take time to call back to Ohio during their ACTUAL business hours not 5 PM.  pacific time where's the oil sensors located on the duetz?  No coolant sensors that I know of.  well their might be but since its oil cooled theirs definitely no coolant.Last edited by Dualie; 10-29-2008 at 11:31 PM.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:well they load banked it for 2.5 hours before I picked it up.  I have been running it on high idle for the last 20 hours and trying to keep the arc on time up.I talked to the local Lincoln factory service center today he told me to check the alternator belt.    I still need to take time to call back to Ohio during their ACTUAL business hours not 5 PM.  pacific time Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by Dualiewell they load banked it for 2.5 hours before I picked it up.  I have been running it on high idle for the last 20 hours and trying to keep the arc on time up.I talked to the local Lincoln factory service center today he told me to check the alternator belt.    I still need to take time to call back to Ohio during their ACTUAL business hours not 5 PM.  pacific time where's the oil sensors located on the duetz?  No coolant sensors that I know of.  well their might be but since its oil cooled theirs definitely no coolant.
Reply:Its NOT the alternator belt. It would not start back up if it was.I wouldl have been on the phone with Lincoln the first time it quit.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RIts NOT the alternator belt. It would not start back up if it was.I wouldl have been on the phone with Lincoln the first time it quit.David
Reply:Sorry forgot is was a Vantage 500, been working on several 300's lately with the water cooled Duetz, however had a couple of 500 units that would shut down periodicly, turned out to be a build up oif carbon, and they would go to over heat.You really don't want to run it on high idle no load, that just worsens the situation.All I did for the last 2 500's is load them to data plate for a couple of hours. Presto, no more carbon, nor more high heat shutdowns.Also during the breakin period the Duetz goes through alot of oil, might want to check that too.We use a Guardol ECT semisynthetic 15-40 year round (Northern Canada)
Reply:Alot of US repair shops, we have been finding don't have the capabilty to load the machines upwards of 600 amps, so while they say that they have loaded it, in reality they haven't
Reply:I betcha that if you were to have it loaded right down, you'd see alota carbon shooting out the stack.Been 2 weeks on the last units I loaded up, Zero shutdown issues,Ok FINNALLY talked to Bob Crow today.    SUPER great guy. said that this was a super rare thing.  the engine protection board was most likely blame but a loose wire or sensor could be to blame also.  I guess I will have to take it to EMCO east some time the week after next.  this is going to be a hard problem to diagnose as its a intermittent problem.  well no crap haha.    The upside is I ran it for 3 hours today and it didn't shut down once.    For he last hour I was just doing one weld after another pretty much non stop.  After an hour I had to stop and rest as the gun of my LN-25 was starting to smoke.maybe after I put a hundred or so hours on the machine I will get some 5/8" carbons and really load her down.  Oil level is spot on right in the middle of the cross hatching on the dipstick.   I think I'm going to drop the oil and filter around 50 hours.   going to replace it with regular DELO-400 that's done great buy me in everything I have owned for the last 20 years.    including the gassers.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Glad you got to finally talk to Bob.  If David R says he's the man I believe it.No one has to tell you intermittent electrical problems can be hard to track down and when found typically only take minutes to correct.  When I mentioned defective RUN/STOP switch or circuit my thought was loose connection or pinched wire.  Of course this could be the case in a number of circuits within the unit including the engine protection circuits (low oil / high oil temp) and not limited to just the RUN/STOP.I was on a service call near Houston on Tuesday for a diesel fire pump driver that burned up a starter, several battery cables and a pair of cranking solenoids.  Once all the crispy critters were changed out a function test of the controller and cranking system (with solenoid pull-in wire disconnected) was performed.  During that time the controller kept throwing a BATTERY 1 TROUBLE but everything checked out all the way from the new batteries through the interface terminal blocks to the controller panel where I discovered the problem - a loose female spade connector at the BATTERY 1 On/Off rocker switch terminal was occasionally loosing contact.  It was just resting up against the switch terminal and a little squeeze on the terminal ends to tighten the fit on all the switch terminals solved the problem.  Fortunately the whole thing took a grand total of about five minutes but I once chased an electrical malfunction on a dock fire protection system during the system start-up on and off for more than a day and when I finally found the problem (oversight in my design) it only took 20 minutes to correct.Getting back to your unit, it's possible any pokin' and prodin' that was done the other day when it was load-banked may have further hidden the cause but only time will tell.You didn't say whether or not you were getting an ENGINE PROTECTION light when it was shutting down.Next time you talk to Bob you may want ask him about any recommendations for oil.  Just don't use any of denrep's No Oil!MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Is Delo 400 a semisynthetic, you DON'T want full synthetic, And you DON'T want full Dinosoar oil either.in these new style engines
Reply:Actually a Kubota is in the Vantage 500 Airpack, It's a big mother with turbo boost
Reply:No engine protection lights at all.  acts like it was shut off.   If you just walk over and hit the starter button it will turn over for as long as you hold the button down.   In order to actually get it to restart you have to turn the power switch off and back on and it will immediately restart.Its going to Emco East some time next week when i can afford to be without the machine for a couple of days.  right now im busy building the worlds strongest carport.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:When you are turning it off and on, it resets the protection system.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Fuel line may have a slight leak allowing it to suck enough air to create a temporary lock from time to time.  Check any and all fittings and crush washers.  It won't necessarily drip thicker fuel but could suck air.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by David RWhen you are turning it off and on, it resets the protection system.David
Reply:Originally Posted by Dualieright now im busy building the worlds strongest carport.
Reply:I'm not familiar with the Vantage setup, but I owned a tractor once with a deutz engine, and I liked the engine. Never gave any trouble.  My deutz did have a blower that was run by a belt, and there was a contact switch that would trigger if the belt broke (or vibrated too much if the belt was too loose). This switch was designed to shut off the engine in case of something wrong with the belt.  Check all belts (if any) for proper length, proper tension, and any sensors related to belt tension. (if any).J.
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Doing a thread on it?
Reply:Is that going to be your 'safe haven' in the event of a 'quake?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I told them it damn well should be theirs.   Truth be told its going to provide a dry spot for a mid 80's volkswagon rabbit and a 2004 honda pilot.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Update.  dropped it off tuesday the 11th.got a call today tuesday the 18th that it should be ready on december 4th.   I will let you know when i can get their asses off my neck.IM NOT A HAPPY CAMPER!Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieUpdate.  dropped it off tuesday the 11th.got a call today tuesday the 18th that it should be ready on december 4th.   I will let you know when i can get their asses off my neck.IM NOT A HAPPY CAMPER!
Reply:Apparently Lincoln is out of stock on said control board's and the outside vendor of said board is shipping one to Cleveland ASAP then Cleveland is over niteing it to EMCO east.in the mean time I have $12K missing from my bank account and nothing to prove for it. I used to be a died in the wool Lincoln Red blood bleeder.  Im starting to contemplate bleeding blue.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieApparently Lincoln is out of stock on said control board's and the outside vendor of said board is shipping one to Cleveland ASAP then Cleveland is over niteing it to EMCO east.in the mean time I have $12K missing from my bank account and nothing to prove for it. I used to be a died in the wool Lincoln Red blood bleeder.  Im starting to contemplate bleeding blue.
Reply:Would be the engine protection board if anything. My 500's that I loaded up on the same issue welded fine for 3 weeks, now one of them is acting up from being used to run low amp lighting on high idle all day long. High idle and not much output is back to carboning the valves again. Carbon up the valves and the thing goes to overheat and shuts down periodically. Don't want to do that to a low hour engine. But they don't listen. Have to go back and reload the darn thing till it blows chunks of carbon out of it.
Reply:SUCSESS!!!They got a board miraculously yesterday and got it installed and load banked it @400 amps for 90 Min and all is well with the world.   The tag says new peripheral control board C-4662-2.IT was a royal P.I.T.A. to get it mounted back in the truck though.Thank you to everyone that replied in this thread,  A big thanks go to the boys At EMCO East and Bob Crow in Cleveland.  Now it has 50.8 hours on it.  They did put a couple of small scratches on the stainless skins and im pretty anal but that I will just suck and live with just to have my machine back.Honestly,  after hearing how un reliable the 400 AMP Vantages were That's why I went with the 500.  I doubt I will ever push the machine past 345 amps @ 26ish volts in CV.  I don't have a portable air source that will keep up with a carbon arcing operation so that's a shop only operation and I have an Old school copper gutted 600 amp CV Lincoln for that.As a side bar the machines in their that needed some repair their were aprox 3 Thermal Dynamics, 8 lincolns and COUNTLESS millers 30+.  If the machine remains reliable from here on out I just might bleed red till i die.Last edited by Dualie; 11-21-2008 at 12:20 AM.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:The peripheral board is the protection board, it monitors the sensors, hopefully it works for you!
Reply:SO far so good.   Ran for 3 hours today not a single hiccup.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieSO far so good.   Ran for 3 hours today not a single hiccup.