Thick Plate Full Penetration

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I am designing a 54' dia. x8'high cylinder with a 24' center hole. The structure has 32 ribs requiring full penetration welds to the top plate, divided into 32 sections. All plates and ribs are 2" thick. For best strength, should the ribs protrude through the plane of the top plates and be welded with bevel welds on both sides? Suggestions?
Reply:Your question is concerning.  The size of the structure you are building is massive.  It is difficult to answer your question based upon the information that you have provided.   What is the purpose of this structure?  What kind of loads will it see in use?  Is  this structure a pressure vessel?  What type of materials will be used in construction?  If this structure fails will people be put at risk?  Will this structure be inspected for safety?   The size of this structure implies that there is a lot of money involved, i.e. a project that should only be attempted with the support of experienced engineers and professional fabricators.  These folks would know the answers to your questions.  Do you have the skills to design this structure safely?  Reach out to pros with experience with this type of structure.  If this is a paper exercise, think about the loads, and the stresses to be applied to the structure.  Consider modeling your design to come up with strategies to safely address these issues.  Once you have the loads and stresses identified then you can think about how your structure can be put together with welds, i.e. weld sizing, location, type, filler materials, etc.  Best of luck with your project.
Reply:^^^Agreed^^^...this HAS to be engineered by a professional! What are you actually building?Rich
Reply:I hope you mean inches, not feet....The mind boggles.
Reply:Do you mean something like this? I don't think I would pass the ribs all the way through, I'd just set it up like the attached picture, and fill er up. Attached ImagesIan TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Originally Posted by Fnord5I hope you mean inches, not feet....The mind boggles.
Reply:Where'd the OP go??  Rich
Reply:I think he is redesigning his fall-in/out bunker. 30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:I think judging by the way he was asking the questions, he sounded like me:  A hobbiest that only knows just enough to get hurt!       It reminds me of someone that lied on a job application, gets hired for the job but can't perform because he doesn't know how to do it to begin with.  If I'm making a false assumption here, my apologies to the OP.  But Jiminy Crickets mate, this  sounds kinda fishy!  54 FEET by 8 FEET and you're asking about penetration here on 2-inch thick steel?  Cowboy, I sure hope this ain't your first campfire    A complex and BIG critical job like this,  would at least have more poignant questions that sound like they at least come from a professional,  that is at least somewhat more knowledgable in this field of expertise.     -jus' say'n.  Last edited by SuperArc; 10-16-2015 at 02:00 AM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Well I have found the responses here to be quite useless.  I will not be visiting this site again, so save your comments.
Reply:wow....guess he was offended...damn I wanted to know what the project was....and whoever referenced the poss size error was right...mind boggling REAL HEAVY IRON
Reply:Top plate, with the hole,  that's right, with the hole, is around 150,000 pounds.  750 tons.Harbor freight welder should do it.  But you better use the 220 volt version.
Reply:Originally Posted by steve7777777Well I have found the responses here to be quite useless.  I will not be visiting this site again, so save your comments.
Reply:Originally Posted by steve7777777well i have found the responses here to be quite useless.  I will not be visiting this site again, so save your comments.
Reply:I think he's FOS...that job doesn't even exist...You're building something like that, and you're coming to a forum to figure out how to weld it?  Yeah, right....Rich
Reply:What did I say????????   Huh?....Shucks
Reply:We are welding 2.5 inch thick lifting eyes on Genset bases right now.  They are heavily Engineered and do not require "Full" penetration welds.
Reply:I used to watch the shipyard welders reinstalling huge hull cuts back into my submarine pressure hull...The pressure hull was my people tank where I lived many years of my life....2.5 to 3" thick HY80 steel.....fully beveled both sides, fitted up to gnats azz, preheated for days, then welded for weeks with each pass examined and xrayed 100%, then post weld heat treated, and hydro'd with 125 sailors aboard where we took her to test depth and felt for leaks with flash lights and our fingers....as if a flash light would reveal a bad weld.......Flooding on a submarine has a way of finding you, and can only be depended on to put a fire out so you go to the bottom still pink on the inside.
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderI used to watch the shipyard welders reinstalling huge hull cuts back into my submarine pressure hull...The pressure hull was my people tank where I lived many years of my life....2.5 to 3" thick HY80 steel.....fully beveled both sides, fitted up to gnats azz, preheated for days, then welded for weeks with each pass examined and xrayed 100%, then post weld heat treated, and hydro'd with 125 sailors aboard where we took her to test depth and felt for leaks with flash lights and our fingers....as if a flash light would reveal a bad weld.......Flooding on a submarine has a way of finding you, and can only be depended on to put a fire out so you go to the bottom still pink on the inside.
Reply:
Reply:In the lagoon at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean in early 1981 with a Fast Attack along side.   Attachment 1242901
Reply:Originally Posted by HT2-4956Dam, aren't you one salty mf'r.You've obviously been some where around where this has been done.   I've was involved in 3 "hull patches" on fast attacks during my time assigned to 26A on AS-37.  We did them in the floating dry dock USS San Onofre (ARD-30) at the Pt. Loma Sub Base.  boo-rah
Reply:I'm the little guy front row on left, first guy in brown kakies wearing the pizzcutter hat..That's my "Big John" Marshal in background...I was no longer member of her crew you see behind me, but I was her Ship's Superintendent by then, so I was invited to be part of this photo celebrating a very successful dry docking and preps for Desert Storm...i finally got a little sleep once she sailed....She was a converted missile boat outfitted to carry two seal teams and all their weapons and mini submairine...We did some mighty interesting things with her around the world.
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderDixon was sister ship to USS L Y Spear. I served aboard Hunley and Spear as Squadron 6&8 Ship's Superintendent for several years in late 80's/early 90's, so I dealt with many hull cuts then and before as a crew member on fast attacks and boomers.Don't miss a second of it.
Reply:Spear was first built in the class...Dixon next.Is that pic San Diego?When i was stationed aboard USS new Orleans we pulled into Pearl to await picking up the Sky Lab splash down crew....We got chit faced and returned to the ship and they took our liberty passes cause we were so drunk...but we got more bucks from our stashes and shinnied down the mooring lines and back ashore...avoiding Shore Patrol, we ended up on submarine piers, but piers were deserted including tender-all out to sea, so we tossed EVERY submarine gangway into the water laffin how the subs would return and no way to get ashore.....LOL, those were the days before TV cams and terror or we would all be still in jail.However, me and my shipmates did achieve full penetration that nigh on Hotel street!Last edited by wornoutoldwelder; 10-16-2015 at 09:20 PM.Originally Posted by steelsurgeonI think he's FOS...that job doesn't even exist...You're building something like that, and you're coming to a forum to figure out how to weld it?  Yeah, right....Rich
Reply:Originally Posted by steve7777777Well I have found the responses here to be quite useless.  I will not be visiting this site again, so save your comments.
Reply:What a dildo... hahaWelding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:well i think its safe to say we dont want him back anywayVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:I read this and I was a little bit bored: if he would have had it all fit-up in 1 piece it would have been around 330 tons+ and obviously SIZABLE physically. But I guess a guy with an A-frame in the back yard could probably pull it off. DID I SAY THAT?aevald
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderSpear was first built in the class...Dixon next.Is that pic San Diego?When i was stationed aboard USS new Orleans we pulled into Pearl to await picking up the Sky Lab splash down crew....We got chit faced and returned to the ship and they took our liberty passes cause we were so drunk...but we got more bucks from our stashes and shinnied down the mooring lines and back ashore...avoiding Shore Patrol, we ended up on submarine piers, but piers were deserted including tender-all out to sea, so we tossed EVERY submarine gangway into the water laffin how the subs would return and no way to get ashore.....LOL, those were the days before TV cams and terror or we would all be still in jail.However, me and my shipmates did achieve full penetration that nigh on Hotel street!
Reply:Originally Posted by HT2-4956Since this thread already appears to be fairly well derailed and headed for the toilet (which I suspect one of the Mods will be flushing here some time soon) I'll just go ahead and call Bravo Sierra on that little bit of sea story fantasy.
Reply:Dam, you've really become a legend in your own mind, huh?    How a megalomaniacal idiot like you ever made Senior Chief is beyond me.
Reply:^ LOL.  Note he never made Master Chief."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai^ LOL.  Note he never made Master Chief.
Reply:Originally Posted by steve7777777Well I have found the responses here to be quite useless.  I will not be visiting this site again, so save your comments.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcThat was exactly my point too!   His question was analogous to a professional welder asking: "I got hired to weld on a new aircraft carrier.  I'm responsible for welding up some bulk heads down on the triple-hull.  Any idea how I tackle this job fellas?"
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1Oh come on, you're on your way to Harbor Freight for the welding machine .
Reply:The OP sounds like a student somewhere that expects he will be required to answer same question on test.....I see lots of that on similar engineering related forums....They seldom know enuff to include enuff info or even understand why experts ask for that extra little info....and usually they get their panties bunched up when the pros sniff them out......But even if they stick it out and receive decent answer, they never respond or haunt that forum again unless they have a new student related question.
Reply:Originally Posted by galencwiBD1. When he calls we split this 50/50.
Reply:When he puts 7 tons of weld in a 125 ton truss for the world trade center and trims off a 17 " plate with natural gas cutting he might know somthing! The Trade Center used the largest amount of ESAB Corshield 8 for field welding several hundred tons.
Reply:Guys!!   I just figured it out.   This is the top secret launch platform for the new NASA rocket program!!  Dont tell ANYONE!!!“I'm going to do the thing that God put Galen Beasley on this Earth to do:Have Salon quality hair and weld.Nothing like a good cup of coffee and the smell of 6010 burning in the morning. 971-204-3444 cell API ASME Structural NDT and Repair
Reply:Originally Posted by galencwiGuys!!   I just figured it out.   This is the top secret launch platform for the new NASA rocket program!!  Dont tell ANYONE!!!
Reply:Reminds me of the new engineer at Cascade Corp.   In Oregon.  We make forklift attachmentsHe graduates with 261 credits 3.7 GPA Blah blah blah. It's all he want to talk about, Oregon Beaver Alumni So we need to install new shelving for our tooling, equipment and supplies.  This is the big heavy industrial grade shelving.   So one of the bosses puts him in charge of the project of getting the shelving installed.   The boss tells him he needs to get some "COD ROD"   So we can weld the shelves down to the concrete.  He spent 2 day on the phone calling around looking for COD ROD with all the guys in the office egging him on.   LOL  The moral of the story.   MIT, Magna Cum Laude, Harvard ........GET IT IN YOUR HEADS  JUST BECAUSE YOU GET A DEGREE AND GRADUATE WITH HONORS YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND A JOB OR KNOW HOW THINGS FLOW TILL YOU GET OFF YOUR *** AND GET YOUR HANDS DIRTY!!!!My favorite is the guy from an oil company who want press up some cylinders to 6000 PSI with nitrogen.   Hey says I need to press up these cylinders and its going to take me (x) amount of nitrogen.   Its used for a emergency operation.  anywaysSo he has me order 6 or so nitrogen dewars bottles.  For those of you that haven't seen one  A dewar bottle is basically frozen gas at low pressure.  At around 400 PSI.  Giant tanks that take a forklift to move.  Very high volume but low pressure. Before I ordered i asked him.  If you need to press a bottle up to 6,000 PSI don't you think it would be easier to start off with high pressure?Engineer  NO NO NO  this will work fine.  What happens is the gas is already frozen transferring it to another bottle causes the lines to freeze and then it slows the transfer down even further.  I already knew it was going to be a disaster but hey I'm here to help.    So I ordered him some more bottles.  Because if you hook more bottles up it will help the gas transfer faster.  lol  2 days later and only 1500 psi. with several bottle to press up.  The engineer says you know...maybe we should try something different. In the end we ordered close to 100 bottles.   SMH!!!!!“I'm going to do the thing that God put Galen Beasley on this Earth to do:Have Salon quality hair and weld.Nothing like a good cup of coffee and the smell of 6010 burning in the morning. 971-204-3444 cell API ASME Structural NDT and Repair
Reply:galencwi , I agree with you 100%. I think most of us had some experience with these college Master Degree guys THAT think because the book says... it's fine. I had a youngin right out of college with all kind of degrees working under a engineer on a steam job we were doing. He was OUR go to contact. Well I didn't go to him, but politely  mention that there is a better way to keep the steam dry if he is interested. I even drew it up for the kid to show him on paper. He was a FIRST CLASS A HOLE about it. So, we welded for a week on what he drew . I deliberately only tacked up some joints instead of welding out because I knew that it wasn't gonna work and no big deal to change. Well the REAL engineer came by and went ballistic when he saw it. I nicely said we tried to explain to him but.... So, as the real engineer  started to say what changes had to be made I said, here, isn't this what you want ? I showed him my drawings and he agreed. I then said no big deal , we only tacked up the spots we knew we had to change. The kid came by and thanked us for what we did and he avoid termination and changed his attitude. I met him again 10 years later and he thanked me again for saving his a$$. He now is the main man .